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dilma rousseff and brazil

 
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 2884
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Sat May 21, 2016 7:18 pm    Post subject: dilma rousseff and brazil Reply with quote

first off, mark started a thread on the brazil protests back in 2013 which has a lot of info related to brazil that others interested in this topic need to consider. - http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7610

we don't have an accurate time for dilma rousseff.. here is the adb page on her - http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Rousseff,_Dilma

2 am and 215am are two c rated charts.. i tend to like the 2am better given the fact the ascendant ruler - venus - is heavily impacted by the ongoing pluto transit, and has undergone the uranus/pluto square transit the past few years.. the 215am chart with scorpio rising seems more abstract at this point astrologically..

i watched a 23 minute interview with rousseff by glenn greenwald..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1nE8E-0u5E

the whole thing in brazil seems like another colour type revolution to alter the direction of brazil away from the brics alliance and back towards the unipolar designs of the usa/west.. it is hard for me to look at this and decipher how the astrology comes into it! i had hoped an accurate time for dilma rousseff would help some, but aside from making a wild guess libra rising works better then scorpio, i am left astrologically hoodwinked!

the fluidity of the situation at present suggests we are in the early rounds of a series of steps/events that highlight how the story is far from over.. perhaps someone can offer some astro insight into all this, that i am overlooking.. thanks.

here is a commentary from a relatively well known indian writer/politician - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M._K._Kumaran son (M K Bhadrakumar) on this topic..

http://blogs.rediff.com/mkbhadrakumar/2016/05/15/rousseffs-ouster-weakens-brics/
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jacopo



Joined: 24 Jun 2013
Posts: 7

Posted: Sun May 22, 2016 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello, back in 2013 we analysed Brazils way and it seems everything is being confirmed...!

First off, it's important to point out that there isnt good guys in this whole story, maybe theres just villains. Worker Partys most important leaders were jailed, and now even Lula is being investigated. Dilmas 2014 electoral campaign is also under investigation coz Petrobras illegal money could have funded it. Vice president party is also a major player in corruption charges. They just abandoned the Worker Party coalition due the massive anti-governement manifestations (the biggest in brazilian history) and the atrocious state of economy (the worst depression since 1930).

About Dilmas natal charts, the most usual are Scorpio and late Libra ascendent ones. The 2h15m AM would be linked with Brazil Mars (MC ruler) and Lulas Sun (she was chosen by him). Her father is not brazilian, he's from Bulgaria, so maybe her chart can show that. Also, she lost much weight in 2015, maybe Saturn transit on ascendent? In the end of the year Saturn will reach her Sun, her health could deteriorate.

Anyway, Brazil Independence Chart and her Reelection Inauguration Chart show enough about these troubled times. Her 2nd gov inauguration chart was in 01 january 2015, 15h31m (Brasilia city, and time). It shows a Sun conjunction Pluto in IX (Car Wash investigation maybe?), by progression this conj. will be exact now in August (probably the final judgement by Senate). This chart shows also a Moon exact oppositon to Saturn (MC ruler), so a deeply unpopular leader.

The Neptune, Saturn, Jupiter and Nodes quadrature aims several planets in Indepence chart. The cancer ingress dont look good (Olympic time). All indicates problems in the olympics or country, it's worrisome. The progressed sun+mars on natal pluto is a powerful combination never seen before. It seems a transformation of Brazil State.

Political system is colapsing, the population is very angry and delusional (neptune quadrature natal moon), a resolution might happen under those powerful transits and progressions, maybe more events can happen while Olympic Games is playing out.
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jacopo



Joined: 24 Jun 2013
Posts: 7

Posted: Sun May 22, 2016 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a feeling the impeachment is just the beggining, i dont see the Interim Government lasting due the progressions of Independence chart and all those transits hitting both moon and sun.

Every time SAturn enters in Scorpio theres some sort political crisis in the country, in june 2013 was the massive protests in streets (something unnusual for brazilians), since then the country is in turmoil, every day the situation just worsens.

I think some legal reformulation can happen between 2017-2022 (and Brazil has had many constitutions already). The progressed MC and prog Jupiter will be conjunct natal Moon+Jupiter by then. And progressed Sun will be in a new sign after 30 years (from pisces to aries) on natal Pluto.

When, after the biggest protest (13 march), Dilma decided to point Lula as a minister (16 march) the progressed mars had just changed to aries and conjunctioned natal Pluto. 1 hour after Lula nomination justice blocked it, coz it was suspected it was just a move to shield ex president from regular judges (ministers can only be investigated by Supreme Court). Since then, Dilmas gov. has collapsed.

Next year (in april) pogressed Sun will also change to aries and conjunct Pluto (Progressed Mars is there already). So, more things will happen. If Dilma is convicted and Vice President is also suspended or resigns, new election (only for president) should happen in 90 days.

Another thing to keep in mind is the Neptune and Saturn quadrature, this is bad news to left moviments, and we can see this pretty clear in Latin America with Macri election in Argentina, Evo Morales defeat in Bolivia referendum, Worker Party fall in Brazil, and Maduro unstable and chaotic government (his party also lost big in venezuelan parlament elections). Maybe in Europe too?
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 2884
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Sun May 22, 2016 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jacopo - thanks for your comments!!!

being investigated for electoral campaign funding wouldn't appear to be grounds for impeaching or removing rousseff from continuing in her role, unless i am missing something.. something seems wrong in the whole process even if there are no 'good guys' here..

i thought about the 215am scorpio rising chart... as i haven't got a clear time line for the minor events that all add up to this major event here, i am not able to appreciate the astrology that might go with it.. the transit of saturn to dilma rousseffs mars - which could just as well be her ascendant ruler in the absence of anything concrete - would certainly fit much of this too...

weight loss and a saturn transit over the scorpio or late libra ascendant certainly works too... the transit of saturn into scorpio aside from hitting a scorpio ascendant harder would also hit her saturn/pluto conjunction in leo as well... the station of saturn at 16 scorpio july 2014 ties into all this.. the eclipse data for 2014 would impact rousseffs chart regardless of whether she has libra or scorpio rising... rousseff nodal axis at 21 taurus/scorpio - square her natal saturn at 22 leo would be very significant to her personally.. and, i think it would be quite challenging coinciding with the transit of saturn for all of 2014.. it is perfect storm of sorts i suppose - for her anyway..

thank you for the 2nd inauguration chart data which i have posted below.

windows screenshot

i would interpret it differently then you.. i do see the moon on the ascendant as likely representing dilma, with the moon ruling over a cadent house - the 3rd, while saturn rules over the 9th and 10th.. this to me says the forces opposed to her rule and style of leadership are in a position to dictate the terms of her power, much as i am coming to see it - oligarchs, different branches of gov't, foreign interests and etc having an upper hand, as opposed to working to maintain the democratic institutions that now appear in jeopardy of disappearing.. i would point to the 12th/7th house ruler being very close to the midheaven as a big part of the problem here... the mars/jupiter opposition seems significant, but not sure how to read it.. 12th/7th house ruler in opposition to the 8th/11th is interesting.

back to the moon as representing rousseff - it is moving into square neptune so the cloud over her role and ability to continue remain in a state of question/confusion as well..

below is a solar return chart to the 2015 inauguration chart that strengthens dilmas position as i see it, if we adopt the idea of dilma being the moon in gemini on the ascendant.. the angles highlight the moon/saturn opp and mars/jupiter opp in the 2015 inauguration chart...


image hosting without account

i am more given over to doing the interpretation using solar returns, as opposed to progressions as you have done... it remains to be seen the best means of predicting the future for rousseff, or brazil here! thanks for the conversation..
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jacopo



Joined: 24 Jun 2013
Posts: 7

Posted: Sun May 22, 2016 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, James,

the Electoral Court can cancel her reelection if it proves it was funded by illegal money. In this case the Vice President would be suspended also, coz they were elected together. And then a new election should happen.

If you are left leaning you certainly will think this process is unfair - it's a power grab after all, and she lost all her support aside her party (even though she isnt liked that much by Workers Party). Anyway, it is the Senate that decides if she is guilty or not, the Supreme Court cant say anything about Senate decision, thats how the impeachment law works.

Let's not forget this is the second impeachment process that happens in Brazil. In 1992 Collor was impeached (Pluto was transinting on MC), though he tried to resign hours before Senate final decision. Curiously, he was not considered guilty by Supreme Court in his corruption charges.

Brazil has a history of ill fated presidents, thats why astrollogers use the MC in Scorpio - Mars in scorpio is opposed to Saturn in Indepence Chart. Probably we should think of a system less prone to this kind of unstability.

Even if she was not reelected the country would be in turmoil, but she was, and her chart wasnt that good in the years ahead. Many astrollogers thought she would lose reelection because of that.

I don't see her returning to Brazil presidency due this Saturn so close her Sun. If Senate don't convict her and she returns probably another impeachment process will happen, now under her ex senate leader alegations (he was jailed last november and expelled from Senate last week). He said to prosecutors she asked him to buy some judges to free some big business and politicians from Car Wash investigation, so they wouldnt expose her reelection funding and ministers.

Do you think the Moon could represent her coz shes a woman? I just followed the classical mundane rules, MC ruler represent the executive branch and Moon the population. It was all of sudden, after this inauguration her approvation rates plummeted in just 1 month. I haven't folowed the progression that much before, but it really matches Brazil epochal shifts.

Another chart time for Dilma, this one is unnusual, late Leo ASC: 14.12.1947, 22h48 – Belo Horizonte. The astrolloger used the fixed royal stars according to Lilly to rectify her natal chart.

Another one, Virgo ASC: 13.12.1947, 23h00 – Belo Horizonte
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 2884
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi jacopo,

thanks for going into these details of brazilian governing process more..

i am left leaning.. when the whole world is leaning to the right - i lean to the left, lol..

regarding your interpretation of transit saturn to her natal sun - i am undecided on the implications of this mostly due the fact we don't have an accurate birth chart to work off of.. based on what i can see - generally saturn in leo is a negative in itself.. the relationship in her chart with sun and saturn is favourable as i see it.. my view on transits is that the impact of the transit of saturn goes back into the relationship the planet - or sun in this case - has with saturn.. even saturn transit opp uranus - which will happen at the same time - has a favourable relationship between saturn and uranus in the natal chart..

regarding the independence chart - 1822 - nic campion in the book of world horoscopes makes the passing comment 'many brazilian astrologers use a chart with 4:47 pm" - page 63 2004 edition of the book.. that chart looks like what i have posted below -


uploading pictures

i see what you say about why many use a slightly earlier chart with scorpio on the midheaven as opposed to sag as it is above.. it is interesting to me how the angles of the 2015 inauguration chart for rousseff are very close to the angles here in the 447pm chart.. it is also interesting how saturn sits exactly on the midheaven of this 0 sag chart with moon exactly opposite on the nadir.. the book of horoscope basically says some time between 4 and 5pm has been thought to be the time, which is again open to conjecture as to which time or chart works best..

i want to go back to rousseffs 2nd inauguration chart with 28 aquarius on the midheaven.. i happened to notice the close 45 from pluto to the midheaven degree in this chart... the solar return i did for this chart which is displayed above also - has pluto 135 the midheaven degree exact.. for me to see pluto in hard angle to the midheaven degree in both, and if we throw in the 447pm chart with 28 aq rising - we get more of the same - speaks of some sort of obvious to an astrologer - manipulation of the role on who is the leader, or regarding the leader of the country.. generally a breaking down of the position is implied as i understand pluto transits.. the circumstances are clouded by suspicion.. i think this also sums up the present political dynamic with brazil..

i have heard about the car wash thing, but don't know any of the details.. do you have any date or astro on this?

regarding following classical mundane rules - that is correct what you say, but with the inauguration chart, i don't view it the same way as a mundane chart for a country where what you say holds.. i view it a view ways - 1) a stand alone chart, 2) a chart that goes back to the person who is being inaugurated chart - dilma rousseff and 3) a chart connected to the mundane chart one has for the country. so, i was speaking mostly to 1) as we don't have a concrete time for 2) and 3)..

i would explain the reason for her popularity plummeting right after this inauguration chart has to do with saturn ingress into sagittarius which happened a week before on dec 23 2015.. in fact, saturn transit in sag interferes with her planets in sag as it is presently, but i suspect the mars in sag represents her fighting back against the forces trying to replace her with something more to their liking..

the ingress of saturn and mars in sag is a heavy weight on people with sag placements as i see it. her mercury/jupiter is under the cloud of this at present..

i tend to see the actions in brazil as part of a larger picture globally.. latin america has been a main stop/branch for the cia since forever back, with latin america having to try to climb out from under the shadow and influence of american imperialism. maybe it is a coincidence the usa ambassador to brazil Liliana Ayalde on august 1 2013 is the same ambassador who served in paraguay from 2008-2011 when their leader Fernando Lugo was eventually impeached june 2012.. i see the usa wanting to function as the unipolar power on the planet and the alliance of the brics countries as a threat to this unipolar vision.. this i believe explains a number of conflicts on the globe and the challenge to these same countries and politicians of countries that are not willingly playing along with this continued agenda..

michel temer is said to have an even lower popularity rating then rousseff, in spite of him not holding the new position for very long.. maybe this is directly connected to the documents given by wikileaks showing him feeding the usa embassy in brazil sensitive info since back in 2006.. i don't know what to make of it all, aside from reading what i read in the different news outlets i read.. maybe you'd like to comment..

thanks for your comments and the conversation here!
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2 things.. first, i have the location forthe 1822 chart wrong. the correction is here below which changes the ascendant to 1 pisces.. the midheaven remains the same at 0 sag..


screengrab

2ndly - here is a day chart for michel temer who is the interm/acting president for the time being..


photo hosting

i plan on coming back to a comment jacopo made on the saturn/neptune combo in relation to all this, and hopefully will find some time to comment on michel temers day chart..
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Location: vancouver island

Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

operation car wash via wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Lava_Jato

and in today's news..
"Secret phone recordings between Brazil's planning minister and the former president of Transperto have revealed that the minister suggested a “change” in the government to “stop the bleeding” caused by an investigation into Petrobras.

The March conversation between Planning Minister Romero Juca and former Transperto President Sergio Machado took place just weeks before impeachment proceedings were launched against Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff, newspaper Folha de Sao Paulo reported."

the 11pm birthchart for dilma rousseff -


image sharing sites

and finally the aries ingress for 2016 which has overseen this impeachment on rousseff -


image hosting without registration

will try to find time to comment on all of this at some point.. the aries ingress 2016 reconfirms a view i have here of pluto/uranus being more central to the dynamics unfolding in brazil at present, as opposed to the saturn/neptune combo... one notes uranus on the exact degree of the midheaven axis confirmed in the upending rousseff as the head of state for brazil.. ruler of the ascendant - saturn in the 12th, and etc. etc.. moon ruler of the 7th in the 8th..

jacopo - do you know any of the basis for the speculative 11pm chart for rousseff?
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james_m



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Location: vancouver island

Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

interesting how the military coup in brazil - march 31-april 1 1964 also coincides with saturn ingress into pisces (march 24-1964).. that would seem to emphasize the 447pm 1822 chart some more..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1964_Brazilian_coup_d'%C3%A9tat

''The coup itself and the dictatorship that followed were supported by Brazil’s oligarchs and their large media outlets, led by Globo, which — notably — depicted the 1964 coup as a noble defeat of a corrupt left-wing government (sound familiar?).''

https://theintercept.com/2016/03/18/brazil-is-engulfed-by-ruling-class-corruption-and-a-dangerous-subversion-of-democracy/
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jacopo



Joined: 24 Jun 2013
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Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello,

about Dilmas Virgo ASC (23h00) - rectification mostly due her personality, with Mars conjunct it. People say it's hard to deal with her and she is known as being authoritarian (even his brother said it in an interview). Also Uranus in X house could indicate his guerrila times, and her father suddenly dying while she was 15 years old.

Vice-president Michel Temer has an official time of birth: 23/09/1940 05h00 AM Tiete, Brazil. Virgo ascending.

He signed the Senate notification 12 may 2016, 11:29 AM, Brasília, Brazil, and then became Interim President.

Car Wash investigation began investigating an illegal dollar scheme through a Car Wash in Brasilia but then police have found that a guy from this scheme had strong links with Petrobras executives.
The first public operation was in 17/03/2014 6h00 AM (several Brazil states), horary given by press. Untill now more than 30 operations like this have happenned. The politicians investigations can be made only by Supreme Court, so it's more slow. it's believed non-politician investigations can be finished untill end of the year, top executives and important corporations owners (and electoral donators) are jailed. Many of them have decided to confess everything in exchange to less severe penalties.

Politicians think they can stop it, like they used to do everytime things got uneasy for them. However, with the independence chart so activated a more long term change could happen. The progressed Sun on Pluto can be very positive, but Pluto also brings many horrible truths to surface.
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james_m



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Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jacopo,

thanks for the additional and useful astro data here! regarding michael temers chart - what is the source for that, if you know? the timing of the senate notification signing is especially interesting.. the angles in the event match the position of temers pluto and saturn.. the event signing ascendant is 2leo ascendant, while temers 12th house pluto is at 3 leo.. it would appear to be very much a covert and underhanded 12th house affair.. the event signing midheaven degree is 12 taurus, which happens to be on temers saturn at 14... an especially interesting feature of the timing is the position of saturn in opposition to michael temers 10th house moon with this 5am birth time... this recreates the close moon-saturn opposition found in the 2nd inauguration chart on the ascedant axis - replicated here by the sign position exactly.. the chart below with temer on the inside and the signing on the outside captures all this..


image sharing sites

regarding dilmas 11pm chart and death of the father at 15 - is some astrologer thinking they can put saturn 15 degrees away from the ascedant degree and make that coincide with the death of her father at 15? lol.. it appears so unless i am missing something..

regarding authoritarianism and the trait in personalities - i am thinking fixed saturn in leo here myself.. in fact, i would put fire and earth combo emphasis down for this possibility as well - hitler being a fairly good example - even if a worse case example.. the cold parental type that could foster this could be caught in the saturn in leo, moon in cap combo - which is also in hitlers chart.. but that is about as far a comparison i would make between the two.. dilma with jupiter/mercury in sag trine the leo planets is a lot more benefic and positive then anything found in hitlers chart!

i mostly think the inner planets - mars and etc - do the work for the outer planets.. with the 11pm time, this puts both the jupiter/mercury on the midheaven axis, and mars on the ascendant with mars in a dominant and capable position...

with temer the chart throws a cheney like vibe to me - very materialistic, but perhaps not near as corrupt - no pluto on the top of a t square.. the ruler of the 8th house rising and conjunct neptune would certainly support his alliance with the cia whether previous, or ongoing..

thanks for the data..
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james_m



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Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

brazil senate vote 61 to 20 to impeach rousseff..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_of_Dilma_Rousseff

a general election is scheduled for 2018.. meanwhile brazilians get to suffer thru the interm 2 years with michael temer who is apparently very unpopular...

i like pepe escobars view on it.. he is a brazilian and a political commentator..
http://tinyurl.com/zxucena

jacopo - that chart for brazil sept 7th 1822 447pm, or slightly earlier - iperanga, brazil - works well here.. i note the solar arc sun on the last degree of pisces, getting ready to change signs as relevant.. you mentioned this upstream - as sec prog - sec prog or solar arc directions for the sun giving a very similar result.

below is the chart for michel temer.. i do not have a time for when he was sworn in - today wednesday aug 31st.. if you have one - please share.. thanks! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Temer

the solar eclipse hits this chart pretty direct... interesting how his chart has the jupiter/saturn conjunction in taurus which i talked about in the usa election thread yesterday..
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