Same significators for pregnant mother/child

1
I've read that receiving the same significator for both parties to a horary is a positive indication. However, in this case that significator is Rx moving towards the ASC (and happens to be malefic Mars).

The question is did pregnancy occur this cycle. H1 ruled by Scorpio, and H5 intercepted and ruled by Aries.

Am presuming this is a "no" but the single significator interests me. Moon is also applying to Mars (but in a square).

Is this a "yes but loss" or just a plain no?
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3
Sorry for any confusion, in this case "did it occur this cycle" is the same as "will it occur" since the cycle is not over yet -- and it can occur after implantation (or not). As I noted above, if we take moon, there is an applying square...so a "yes"

but my concern is 1) Mars being malefic 2) Mars being rx...which means as of August 3 its going into another sign and will be direct...and if Mars going towards the Mother/Asc is a yes, then a reversal (to direct) could be a loss [change in direction]?

4
Mars being malefic has to do in Natal Astrology. In horary it is a player and is a significator for the L5.

Do not confuse Natal with Horary. The question is asked for a 'moment' and that's it. Do not move them to 3rd of August. :)

If there is a clear future aspect with 'receptions' and no obstruction, the answer should be 'Yes'.
Regards

Morpheus

https://horusastropalmist.wordpress.com/

5
This chart shows the most common testimony for pregnancy: L5 is in house 1. That is: "there is a baby inside the mother". (Mother being the querent) It is rather literal.

In this chart there is no need of any aspects and there is no need of a significator for the mother. So yes, there is pregnancy.

But there is a significant affliction to the baby in the form of an applying opposition with Mercury with negative reception from Mercury towards Mars. If there is a history of pregnancy problems or concerns with difficulties in becoming pregnant this *can* be such an indication.
--
Felipe Oliveira
http://traditionalmedicalastrology.org
http://medicalastrologer.net

6
Felipe, many thanks. I have had past losses, the last one was due to a sperm defect. Does Mercury here indicate simply general afflication or is it possible to pinpoint the issue from the chart? I see it rules the child's health (6H) so presumably it's only a general comment on the child? Is there a way to find out more, either from this or a future chart??

7
Hello Polina,

Because the concerns were not voiced with the initial question I prefer to refrain from interpreting what Mercury is. So, as far as my answer to this chart is concerned, yes, Mercury is a general affliction to the baby.

Having said that, I am quite sure the chart is depicting exactly what the affliction is. So we can explore the symbology for study purposes only. With that disclaimer in mind here are some comments:

First, house 6 is not health; it is the opposite ? it is that which disrupts and is antagonistic to health, such as accidents and disease. House 6 is that which strives to obliterate health, or break apart the whole. That is the essence of house 6. Health is house 1. House 1 is "the whole". So the baby's health is house 5. Mercury is against the baby's health in this chart.

Yes, Mercury can be the baby's L6. But even if it were not the baby's L6 it is a malefic here because of the negative reception and close contact.

Is the father the same man from the case of the defective sperm? If so, then it could be that a similar problem is re-occurring. Mercury rules small things in large quantities, such as spermatozoons. Mercury is in house 7, afflicting the father. Jupiter, the natural ruler of sperm is in its detriment in the baby's house 6, and aspects both the ASC and the 7th cusp, that is: it influences both the father and mother. Venus, the father, is combust, which is a major affliction.

We can, again, for speculation purposes, take the Moon as your significator. The Moon is ruled by that which afflicts the father: the Sun. And the Moon is in a sextile with both the Sun and Venus. So the mutual influence is emphasized. And the Moon is on the 7th cusp by antiscion, re-emphasizing the connection. Such testimonies possibly point at some issue with the father ? whether he is the same man or not.

If you want to know something specific you can ask another question and cast a chart for that. Then we may try to interpret it more accurately because we can correlate the symbols directly with the thoughts you had when asking the question. However, based on this chart, the advice I would give a client or friend would be to seek a doctor's advice.
--
Felipe Oliveira
http://traditionalmedicalastrology.org
http://medicalastrologer.net

8
Hi again Felipe,
Thank you so much for that additional detail. I really appreciate it.

It goes without saying of course that I'm always monitored by doctors during pregnancy. But right now is the famous waiting period between fertilization and confirmation -- hence the horary while I wait. Later on of course I can obtain more information. Although with my last loss, the pregnancy itself was completely fine -- no complications, no pain, no cointractions no bleeding, all was fine. it was only bc I had an elective invasive test that gives you 100% diagnosis that I found out about the abnormality> Had I not chosen that, I would have carried to term [or risked having a late-term haemorrhaging loss] only to find out later.

In any case what is interesting here is that the sperm is from another man and it was filtered so should be healthy. They cannot insure against random gene shuffling even with the healthiest sperm/eggs, but at least on paper the chances should be lower of that happening this time around.

You mention Merc is in negative reception -- I presume you mean just the fact that it's an applying opposition?

Should I ask again, would "is this baby healthy" be a proper question? I could ask also "will this pregnancy miscarry" - I am not sure which type of question would give the most information. I'm interested in knowing the cause or source of any problem and not simply whether or not there is or will be a problem, if that makes sense.

9
Hi Polina,

Mercury is in Taurus, a sign of Mars' detriment. So Mercury is antagonistic to Mars. If Mercury was in Libra it would be the same. The close oppostion establishes the influence/connection between Mars and Mercury, saying: "look, there is something important here!" Any aspect with a negative reception would be harmful in this case, not only opposition; a trine from Cancer (Mars' fall), for example, would amount to the same kind of testimony.

Ok, so if this is IVF and the sperm is from a different man, I would simply take Mercury as a general affliction and would stay at that. Then go back to the chart later to se how the outcome relates to the chart, as a learning experience.

Yes, "is this baby healthy" is a valid question. But we already know there is some issue that needs attention. We cannot determine "how healthy" with astrology. Medical exams will tell you how serious the issue is and how to correct it, if possible. "Will this pregnancy miscarry" is also valid but given the current chart I would wait until the next exams to ask any further questions about the baby or pregnancy because the exam results will give you that information accurately and will give you practical medical information on what to do; then you can se what kind of options/questions arise for you, and go from there.

Having said that, if you have a "burning question" you can always ask it; and then we decide if it can be anwered or not.

All the best,

Felipe
--
Felipe Oliveira
http://traditionalmedicalastrology.org
http://medicalastrologer.net

10
felipeastrologo wrote: Any aspect with a negative reception would be harmful in this case, not only opposition; a trine from Cancer (Mars' fall), for example, would amount to the same kind of testimony.

Ok, so if this is IVF and the sperm is from a different man, I would simply take Mercury as a general affliction and would stay at that. Then go back to the chart later to se how the outcome relates to the chart, as a learning experience.

Yes, "is this baby healthy" is a valid question. But we already know there is some issue that needs attention. We cannot determine "how healthy" with astrology. Medical exams will tell you how serious the issue is and how to correct it, if possible. "Will this pregnancy miscarry" is also valid but given the current chart I would wait until the next exams to ask any further questions about the baby or pregnancy because the exam results will give you that information accurately and will give you practical medical information on what to do; then you can se what kind of options/questions arise for you, and go from there.
Thanks so much Felipe. The first sentence above is particularly helpful to me, because I tend to think of positive aspects as good, negative as bad. So ie "how could a trine from [a planet in Cancer] be bad" since Cancer represents motherhood and fertility...and this is where I get blinded by my limitations. Namely issues of debility/exaltation as I have a hard time adding in that layer of analysis. It makes full sense that it is so. I just need to beef up my skills in this area. I appreciate you taking the time to explain it))

One thing I do not understand is why this is not a "miscarriage" chart. In other words, if the chart shoes pregnancy but then you have an opposition from any "malefic" or bad or negative planet (ie something representing death or ill health) then wouldn't that (couldn't that) "undo" the fact that the pregnancy occured, ie the chart shoes "yes there was conception but look what happens next"? Sort of like that?

Of course at this point I'll wait for more "real life" information before returning to the charts, but this exercise helps me further develop my horary-reading skills so it is a welcome learning experience in any case.

Much thanks )

11
Polina wrote:
felipeastrologo wrote: Any aspect with a negative reception would be harmful in this case, not only opposition; a trine from Cancer (Mars' fall), for example, would amount to the same kind of testimony.

Ok, so if this is IVF and the sperm is from a different man, I would simply take Mercury as a general affliction and would stay at that. Then go back to the chart later to se how the outcome relates to the chart, as a learning experience.

Yes, "is this baby healthy" is a valid question. But we already know there is some issue that needs attention. We cannot determine "how healthy" with astrology. Medical exams will tell you how serious the issue is and how to correct it, if possible. "Will this pregnancy miscarry" is also valid but given the current chart I would wait until the next exams to ask any further questions about the baby or pregnancy because the exam results will give you that information accurately and will give you practical medical information on what to do; then you can se what kind of options/questions arise for you, and go from there.
Thanks so much Felipe. The first sentence above is particularly helpful to me, because I tend to think of positive aspects as good, negative as bad. So ie "how could a trine from [a planet in Cancer] be bad" since Cancer represents motherhood and fertility...and this is where I get blinded by my limitations. Namely issues of debility/exaltation as I have a hard time adding in that layer of analysis. It makes full sense that it is so. I just need to beef up my skills in this area. I appreciate you taking the time to explain it))

One thing I do not understand is why this is not a "miscarriage" chart. In other words, if the chart shows pregnancy but then you have an opposition (or square or applying aspect) from any "malefic" or bad or negative planet (ie one representing death 8H or ill health 6H) then wouldn't that (couldn't that) necessarily "undo" the fact that the pregnancy occured, ie the chart shows "yes there was conception but look what happens next"? Sort of like that?

Example: if Mars were applying to an opposition within orb of Venus (ruling the child's 8H) would that not show death in X time units? Or not necessarily?

Of course at this point I'll wait for more "real life" information before returning to the charts, but this exercise helps me further develop my horary-reading skills so it is a welcome learning experience in any case.

Much thanks )

12
Hi Polina,
Polina wrote:One thing I do not understand is why this is not a "miscarriage" chart.
Now that you mention it, yes, this can be a miscarriage chart. (I did not want to say it because I did not want to alarm you.) As you pointed out, Mercury is radical L8, so the aspect could mean literally "the death of the baby". So yes, the picture in the chart *could* show that there was conception but it will not survive.

BUT! Big BUT! That was not the question asked. The question was "Am I pregnant?" So that is what the astrologer answers.

If, however, you had the baby's survival as your primary concern when asking the question we could answer about a miscarriage. So you have to be very clear about what you were asking. If the question was not about a miscarriage, or if you are now uncertain if you thought about a miscarriage when casting the chart, then Mercury could be anything. In that case we cannot assert this is a miscarriage chart.

In a client situation I would drill the client to help me understand the question clearly. Here we are unfolding the chart and the situation surrounding the question as we discuss.
Polina wrote: In other words, if the chart shows pregnancy but then you have an opposition (or square or applying aspect) from any "malefic" or bad or negative planet (ie one representing death 8H or ill health 6H) then wouldn't that (couldn't that) necessarily "undo" the fact that the pregnancy occured, ie the chart shows "yes there was conception but look what happens next"?
Yes. *If* this is a miscarriage chart that is exactly how such a thing is shown in horary.
Polina wrote:I tend to think of positive aspects as good, negative as bad.
In my opinion, the notion of positive aspects and negative aspects is biased and misunderstood by many astrologers.

*Generally speaking*, trines are easy, smooth. Sextiles less smooth. Squares involve aggravation, difficulty or delays. Oppositions cause regret. Oppositions and conjunctions are strong/intense.

The goodness or badness of an aspect depend on two things: receptions and the CONTEXT.

If death is indicated by a trine or an opposition it makes no difference, you die anyway. In death charts receptions are usually irrelevant. Any aspect with L6 or L12 is unpleasant. A trine with L6 makes you sick easily! A conjunction with L12 takes one back to one's addiction easily! What's good about that? If you get a job by trine it will be easy to get the job. If you enter a relationship by an opposition you will regret that you entered it. If you get to the top of Mount Everest by an opposition you will get there, but you may not be able to get back! If you graduate from school by a square it means that you will graduate with difficulty, but you can still graduate.

Events occur if the receptions support the aspects otherwise even a trine or a conjunction will not work. If one person dislikes the other and then connect by conjunction they will not come or stay together. That is common sense and reality, isn't it? And horary is a snapshot of reality! So we look at the aspect along with receptions. There is no absolute good or bad aspect. With some exceptions the outcome of aspects depend on receptions; and always depend on the context.
Polina wrote:"how could a trine from [a planet in Cancer] be bad" since Cancer represents motherhood and fertility...and this is where I get blinded by my limitations.
Context! And receptions. If the reception is bad the trine can show "someting bad happening easily". I is rare in practical horary that Cancer would mean motherhood and fertility. The primary concern in horary is house rulers. So if The cusp of a relevant house falls in Cancer then the Moon is a sinificator. If any significator is in Cancer we look at the receptions and aspects with that planet, etc. If L6 is in Cancer and you aspect it you will get sick regardless of the type of aspect or receptions.

There are many possible contexts and combinations?
Polina wrote:Example: if Mars were applying to an opposition within orb of Venus (ruling the child's 8H) would that not show death in X time units? Or not necessarily?
Unless timing is part of the question is is not certain that the timing will appear in a chart. In the majority of the cases it does not appear in a chart if not part of the question. Orbs are irrelevant if you use receptions correctly.
--
Felipe Oliveira
http://traditionalmedicalastrology.org
http://medicalastrologer.net