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Increased Violence In the USA
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james_m



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Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:29 pm    Post subject: Increased Violence In the USA Reply with quote

I am trying to get a better understanding of this and whether it is always like this, or that this year is an unique situation and if so, what is the astrology to support it. today or in the past 24 hours approx - 2 black people dead from police fire and now 5 police officers dead and others critically wounded.. it is all so horrible..

The aries ingress to washington has mars rising, so the stereotypes about mars on the ascendant auguring war and violence seem to hold true.. the cancer ingress set to washington has the same degree rising as the position of mars in the aries ingress.. not sure if this could be considered relevant. this cancer ingress chart has the 7th house ruler in a commanding and ruling position over the 1st house ruler.. i wonder if the concerns of some will be given greater consideration, or this will be just another opportunity to clamp down on different voices? seems to me the USA has a real problem here.. hopefully life will settle down and be less turbulent and innocent people won't continue to be killed/murdered..

The close proximity of sun to an opposition to pluto is also interesting astrologically to me.. while pluto might not rule the police, I think there is a connection. often the information on these events is not made available for a host of reasons or rationale..

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Mark
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Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

James_M wrote:
Quote:
the close proximity of sun to an opposition to pluto is also interesting astrologically to me.. while pluto might not rule the police, i think there is a connection.


In traditional terms because we had mutable sign rising in the US Aries ingress we would only examine that and the Libra ingress this year. I personally, still think every ingress should be examined. But i would see this chart as subsidiary to the Aries ingress. That had the angular Mars mentioned by you that sets a tone for 6 months afterwards.

I guess there is a Sun-Pluto opposition by signs but its hardly what I would call remotely close. Much more signifcant is the Moon (Lord eight) separating from an opposition to the Sun. The Moon (Lord eight) is also in opposition to Venus (Lord 6 &11).

The Moon is in detriment in Capricorn which adds to the Moon's negative associations as ruler of the eighth house. Combining the Moon's role as Lord eight, a significator of the people, and it being in detriment we can conclude this period will be characterised a time of adversity, sadness and distress. The potential for more loss of life is compounded as Saturn the domicile ruler of the Moon in Rx.

We find Venus combust the Sun. In Hellenistic and Indian astrology the 6th house is the house of enemies. It is also the house of slaves which today we can interpret as the poor and socially excluded. The certainly seems to fit the experience of many Black Americans.

Opposition to the government or just a sense of a nation divided is symbolized by the MC/Lord 10 (Mercury) in the 7th house where is it is strong by essential dignity (sign rulership) and accidental dignity (angular house).

We also also have Mercury (Lord 10 & 7) opposing Saturn Rx which is the domicile ruler of the Moon.

Opponents to the existing government also gain influence in this quarter with Lord 4 (Jupiter) in the 10th house. Jupiter here is strong in accidental dignity but weak in essential dignity. I am thinking this may symbolise the influence of the Republican Presidential challenger Donald trump taking on the the Democratic party grasp on the white House. Jupiter is the oikdespotes of the ASC (domicile & bound ruler). So ideas opposing the government hold more sway in this quarter.

However, Jupiter falls in the dignities of Mercury and is squared by it. Mercury is in the 10th sign from Jupiter and therefore overcomes it.

I have also been looking at a couple of the main political charts I use for the USA (Sibly) and the Federal Government chart and both are picking up these tensions too. I will post on both of those.

Mark
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Last edited by Mark on Fri Jul 08, 2016 7:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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james_m



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Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi mark,

thanks for your additional comments here.. some of them i neglected to mention, but some you mention, i also hadn't thought of~.

the sun opp pluto was for the past day when some of these specific events surfaced.. that's all to that..

my understanding on aries ingress charts is that if it is a mutable sign rising, it is only applicable for the first quarter, not the first two quarters.. what is the source for mutable rising good for 2 quarters... it is a good thing it isn't sidereal or we would have fixed rising - good for the whole year - which is what it looks like at this point!

regardless of the above source for the interpretation of aries ingress charts, i recall nina g using it, regardless the nature of whether it is cardinal, fixed or mutable as the basis for the whole year in terms of her usa presidential election study.. it seems astrologers will do what they will with these ingress charts.. i agree with you - i think the cancer ingress is relevant here too!

i still maintain the critical time for the world and more specifically the usa is as we approach the fall with the eclipse data that highlights the mars/saturn conjunction.. i know this is more generalized, but i think it is quite relevant and i did post a complete thread on eclipse chart data set to washington dc. where i made some comments along these lines as well..

i also created a thread on mars/saturn conjunctions which i think is at play this year for anyone interested in discussing this specifically.

http://en.wikipedia.nom.pw/wiki/2016_Dallas_police_shooting

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on a 45 degree wheel - sun/pluto with moon (45/135 and at the mars/uranus midpoint..

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Mark
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Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

James_M wrote:
Quote:
My understanding on aries ingress charts is that if it is a mutable sign rising, it is only applicable for the first quarter, not the first two quarters.. what is the source for mutable rising good for 2 quarters...

Hi James,

No in the tradition the system is as follows:

Fixed sign rising: Applicable for whole year
Mutable/Common sign rising: Applicable for 6 months.
Cardinal sign rising: Applicable for just that quarter.

I think your falling into the modern notion that mutable signs indicate the most change. But in medieval astrology its actually the cardinal signs that have that quality. For example, a person with a cardinal sign on the 9th was thought to be someone who might change or turn away from their faith.

The mutable signs take the intermediate position. This fits their position in between the changing seasons. So in a year with a fixed sign rising I would still examine all the ingress charts. But these charts would be subordinate to the Aries ingress. They help give us additional information.


James_M wrote:
Quote:
regardless of the above source for the interpretation of aries ingress charts, i recall nina g using it, regardless the nature of whether it is cardinal, fixed or mutable as the basis for the whole year in terms of her usa presidential election study.. it seems astrologers will do what they will with these ingress charts.. i agree with you - i think the cancer ingress is relevant here too!


Nina Gryphon is a very much doing her own thing by just using the Aries ingress for the entire year. If you look at at the work of traditional astrologers like Peter Stockinger you will see they follow the scheme set out above.

I actually, differ from such a rigid approach. But I go the opposite way by examining all four ingress charts irrespective of sign rising.

James_M wrote:
Quote:
i still maintain the critical time for the world and more specifically the usa is as we approach the fall with the eclipse data that highlights the mars/saturn conjunction.. i know this is more generalized, but i think it is quite relevant and i did post a complete thread on eclipse chart data set to washington dc. where i made some comments along these lines as well..


That sounds very interesting. I would be very interested in seeing your thoughts on that. I tend to think the really epic events for the USA lie in the 2020s myself for a few reasons. But we do obviously have the Great American eclipse of August 2017 coming up....

http://www.greatamericaneclipse.com/

Mark
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james_m



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Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi mark,

you might be right regarding my thinking on the modes on the ascendant in the aries ingress charts.. not sure why i am not up on the traditional viewpoint on this, other then i knew fixed was good for the whole year.. regardless - i think all the ingress charts are useful too... at any rate, no harm re-iterating the distinctions in the meaning associated with the modes.. i read the literature and re-read this stuff a lot!

regarding 2020 - it is an important year astrologically for a number of reasons, not least the jupiter/saturn and saturn/pluto conjunctions that land in the same year.. and yes, i think it is a watershed year on some level too - for the planet.. i also have a thread devoted to some of this too - 2020!

here is the eclipse data for 2016 set to washington dc where i discuss some of my thoughts.. http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9061

http://en.wikipedia.nom.pw/wiki/Shooting_of_Philando_Castile

the timing for this event the prior evening miniapolis/st paul area seems to be a little after 9pm which again will give the sun in opposition to pluto close to the ascendant... you can see why some astrologers like working with just transits and outer planets like pluto, as they seem to have some bearing on events.. i have put the time to 9:10 pm which might be slightly out, but in the ballpark.. mars is also close to the midheaven angle in this chart.. if time is later, it gets tighter with the midheaven..

this event chart below was some of the impetus for the rally in dallas.. it is interesting in so far as the pluto-mercury opposition is also very strong and colouring the event and i project the event of the police killing the following day.. someone went to the dallas rally with some obvious pent up intent as it seems like it was very intent-full.

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Mark
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Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

James_M wrote:
Quote:
You can see why some astrologers like working with just transits and outer planets like pluto, as they seem to have some bearing on events..


Of course. Transits are the triggers for events. I just grow a bit tired at times of astrologers (not you!) squeezing too much meaning out of just an event chart like this.

The position of Mars and Saturn are triggering things in the two key foundational charts charts for the USA.

Lets start with one of my favourite charts for the USA. The much neglected Federal government chart for the USA. This starts from when the Federal constitution took effect on March 4th 1789.



Here we see a repeat of the angular Mars theme in the Aries ingress chart.

Lets summarise the transit hits to the US Federal government chart:

-Tr Mars on ASC
-Tr Mars Sq MC
-Tr Mars squaring Fed Govt Mars
-Tr Saturn Sq Fed Govt Saturn
-Tr Jupiter Opp Fed Govt Mercury (Lord Eight)
-Tr Moon sq Fed Govt Moon
-Tr Moon square Fed Govt Nodes
-Tr South Node on Fed Govt Sun
-Tr Mercury trine Mercury (Lord Eight)
-Tr Mercury (Lord Eight) combust Sun
-Tr ASC opp Fed Govt Jupiter

Mark
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Last edited by Mark on Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:36 am; edited 3 times in total
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james_m



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Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks mark,

i am unfamiliar with this chart, but it is close to the date of another chart for the usa that i liked using - what some referred to as the POTUSA chart.. i recall a fellow named lorenzo at noel tyls speaking of this chart and that he was hoping to write a book about it, but that was before he disappeared never to be heard from again... april 30th 1789 - set to the approx time that washington became the first president of the usa.. 1245pm approx...

below is the chart on the inside with the same transits on the outside... i haven't looked at this yet! what i think is significant in the cross overs with the federal gov't chart you are using here is the location of the sun/saturn conjunction with the transit of south node at this point.. this will take in some of the important eclipse charts as i see it.. also, the place of the moon at 4 gemini 52 is almost exactly opposite the place of mars in the aries ingress chart..

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i will try to summarize as you have done...

sun-mercury opp pluto @ natal moon 16 cancer.
mars on the ic degree
uranus conjunction mercury
venus conjunct jupiter
moon opp pluto
saturn 150 sun
north node 45 uranus
the moon - mars square in the april 30th chart is captured by the transit sun-mercury opp pluto.

i have used the timing of phlandro castile's death as the transit chart here.
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Mark
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Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi James,

Quote:
i am unfamiliar with this chart


Then you are missing out! Dane Rudhyar proposed this chart along with the Sibly chart as the main charts for the USA back in the late 1960s. I have posted about the Federal Government chart before here but it possibly proceded your joining the forum. The date of 4th of March 1789 at 00:00 is when the Federal constitution of the USA came into effect. In a strict sense its when the United States of America as we know it today became a legal entity. Only with the Constitution coming into effect could all the institutions now identified with the the USA come in existence. In particular the House of Representatives, The Senate, The Presidency and the Supreme Court.

All these institutions have separate charts too of course. I agree the individual chart for the President of the USA (POTUSA) is the most important of these institutional charts. This chart is based on the inauguration of George Washington as the first President of the USA in 1789. This took place in New York as this was the Federal capital at that time. Washington DC was not completed until 1800.

As for the timing of the POTUSA chart I see you are using the time cited by Nicholas Campion in his book of World Horoscopes. That is one of the very earliest times proposed. I have seen other times listed up to 1.30pm. I am aware of contemporary eye witness accounts (which i think Campion missed) that suggest a later time for Washington's arrival for his inauguration. Those suggest an early Virgo rising chart around 1.00pm.

Regardless of what exact time we use for the POTUSA chart the late Leo rising does obviously pick of up the angles of the current President Obama's chart. Also the MC of the Federal Government chart has late Leo rising.

On the Federal Government chart (FGC) I decided to leave out outer planets this time as I wanted to demonstrate how radical it is without them. In my view a radical chart shouldn't require outer planet transits to show its worth. I also restricted consideration to ptolemaic aspects. Considering that I think its striking how many things are were triggered in the FGC.

Mark
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james_m



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Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi mark,

thanks for these additional insights and astro perspectives.. yes - i was unaware of all this and how interesting dane rudhyar was involved in promoting the use of the chart you like... you better watch it, or you might turn into a crazy psychological modern astrologer next, LOL!

i hadn't noticed your use of only the planets out to saturn in relation to how the chart you like was impacted here.. that is also note worthy. thanks. when will you do a post on 2020 and are you basing some of your concern on the changes implied in 2020 off this FGC - fed gov't chart?

how is this size for posting? i have tried contracting my screen size and saving it in a constricted size.. it is the alton sterling shooting that took place july 5th which was also an event connected to all of this increase in violence captured by the media.

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Mark
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Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

James_M wrote:
Quote:
thanks for these additional insights and astro perspectives.. yes - i was unaware of all this and how interesting dane rudhyar was involved in promoting the use of the chart you like... you better watch it, or you might turn into a crazy psychological modern astrologer next, LOL!


Ahh James you do love to tease! LOL When it comes to mundane chart research I am willing to use the work of any astrologer regardless of tradition. For example I like the mundane research work of Michael O'Reilly even though his delineation of charts makes heavy use of asteroids. Not something I plan to emulate.

Dane Rudhyar has become a bit of a bogey man to many traditional astrologers as the father of modern psychological astrology. He does write at times in the most opaque and obscure language. And he has a tendency to be over wordy. But I have a rule that i will read anything on mundane astrology and give it a chance!

Rudhyar's book on the Sibly and Federal Constitution/Government chart is entitled:

''The Astrology of America's Destiny''

It is available free online on this link:

http://www.khaldea.com/rudhyar/aad/aad_frontispiece.shtml

The index on the left allows you to go directly to Chapter 6 on the Federal Government/US Constitution chart. Or perhaps I should say charts! There are in fact 3 discrete charts for the US constitution:

1 Signing of the Constitution,
2 Ratification of the Constitution
3 The Constitution coming into legal effect.

The 4th of March 1789 date/time Rudhyar settles on is also my preference between the 3 options. I have put this chart through numerous historical events and find it very radical. Actually, this chart was first proposed by a 19th century American astrologer Thomas Hague.

I am diametrically opposed to Rudhyar's view of national charts coming into being like living breathing entities. However, that is another debate.....

James_ M wrote:
Quote:
i hadn't noticed your use of only the planets out to saturn in relation to how the chart you like was impacted here.. that is also note worthy. thanks. when will you do a post on 2020 and are you basing some of your concern on the changes implied in 2020 off this FGC - fed gov't chart?


Call me shallow but I think Uranus in Gemini seems to coincide with the greatest existential challenges for the USA-Revolution, Civil war, WWII. If you use the Sibly chart this coincides with the 7th house of that chart. Yes I know this does make me seem a bit quixotic after just going on about using the 7 traditional planets!

James_M wrote:
Quote:
how is this size for posting? i have tried contracting my screen size and saving it in a constricted size.. it is the alton sterling shooting that took place july 5th which was also an event connected to all of this increase in violence captured by the media.


Perfect, Thanks Thumbs up
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zoidsoft



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Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Mars station probably has a lot to do with the visibility of police violence, but the reality is that this didn't just show up as a problem yesterday. This problem has been brewing for decades in the USA. The constant drone of police shows on TV and news media are largely responsible for programming the minds of US citizens to accept police violence as "normal behavior".

If you're black in America, you have what's known as 'the talk' about how to behave around police so that you don't end up dead. This cultural artifact has been around at least as long as the 80's in the US. A friend of mine who is black said that police militarization really got started in 1965 with the Watt's riots in LA where police were badly out gunned. Born from that incident came the first SWAT team in LA.

With the changes of the 1980 Libra Jupiter/Saturn conjunction, the Reagan revolution started pushing the nation to the right even more (not just republicans, but democrats as well). The phenomenon of the 'Reagan democrat' was born, but what it really was, was the accumulation of laws on the books that advanced corporate power further stripping citizen control.

The war on drugs later on eventually led to perversion of police incentives. How did this happen? Reagan proposed the idea to seize the cash of drug lords in order to make their organizations weaker. So they started making laws making it legal for police to seize the cash of drug pushers, etc. At first this money went into local government city and state accounts, but lobbying eventually got the money transferred to local police departments as they put new laws on the books making it legal to seize cash first without being charged with a crime. This goes by the euphemism of "civil asset forfeiture". The problem is that cops have been given an incentive to steal from the average citizen because in many cases they are rewarded with a bigger paycheck. It has gotten so bad that the government of Canada issued this warning to it's citizens traveling to the US:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/american-shakedown-police-won-t-charge-you-but-they-ll-grab-your-money-1.2760736

As a member of Hercules Gym in Syracuse (a hardcore power lifting gym) where the Syracuse Police dept trains, I've seen a number of them go off on ego trips. Some were doing steroids. The job attracts the wrong types, and there are reports that large numbers of police have infiltrated from the KKK in recent years. So there's this racist backlash brewing as well. It goes with the Mars archetype and it shouldn't surprise any astrologer.
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unique_astrology



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Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Near time New Moon and event transit charts for the killings in Dallas, TX, on July 7th, 2016.

The New Moon in Dallas on July 4th when done in right ascension had an MC at 3°05' and it's Pluto on the Desc at 3°07'. The Sun and Moon at 104°02' were conjunct the Sibly Sun at 104°29' and square Sibly Saturn at 194°36'.

Some charts were located to the geographic center of the contiguous United States as a possible reflection of the collective psyche of the country's citizens (IMO). "Its position as located in a 1918 survey is located at 39°50′N 98°35′W, in Kansas about 2.6 miles (4.2 km) northwest of the center of Lebanon, ...". Lebanon, KS - Latitude 39°N48'35''; Longitude 098°W33'19''.

"Geographical Centers of the United States" (PDF). USGS Publications Warehouse. U.S. Department of the Interior Geological Survey. 1964.

Using 9pm CDT at Lebanon, KS, yields in longitude an Asc reading at 16°24' Capricorn, transit Pluto at 16°12' Capricorn on it and transit Sun at 16°21' Cancer on the Desc - the nation, in general, shocked to the core. Whose timing device said it was 8:58 pm? Whose at 8:45 pm? Was either coordinated with an atomic clock? The angular relationships still hold for an exact time within a few minutes of 9 pm.
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Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unique_ Astrology wrote:
Quote:
Near time New Moon and event transit charts for the killings in Dallas, TX, on July 7th, 2016.

The New Moon in Dallas on July 4th when done in right ascension had an MC at 3°05' and it's Pluto on the Desc at 3°07'. The Sun and Moon at 104°02' were conjunct the Sibly Sun at 104°29' and square Sibly Saturn at 194°36'


Good idea to check the previous lunation Bob. Always a valuable chart to examine.

I dont follow your nifty right ascension calculations but it sounds impressive.

Summary of Transits (Ptolemaic aspects only)

-Tr New Moon/Sun on Sibly Sun

-Tr New Moon/Sun Sq Sibly Saturn

-Tr Mars Sq Sibly Moon

-Tr Saturn Conj Sibly ASC

-Tr Uranus Square Sibly Mercury

-Tr Pluto Rx opp Sibly Sun

-Tr Sun opp Tr Pluto


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james_m



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Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

curtis,

thanks for your comments.. that is a fascinating take by neil macdonald in cbc from a few years ago and i hadn't read or been aware of it.. he is still around... i think drugs and the role they play in us culture plays an important part of the picture here too.. generalizing 4 things for me - availability of guns, drug/gang culture, racial issues, and ex military types being hired on police forces - which is a more complex topic involving the role of the usa in the many foreign wars it has engaged in over the years..

all of this however pulls me away from astrology and i would like to keep the focus on the astrology.. you mention the jupiter/saturn conjunction of 1980 under the reagan years.. this chart is supposed to supersede the aries ingress charts and as i understand it, the chart was used as an important part of understanding the approx 20 year period.. one could run profections off this chart and could treat the aries ingress chart and how it connected to this chart as giving greater insight into the 20 year cycle.. so, below i have posted this important chart from the year 2000 and will make some astro observations off of this chart as it relates to the aries ingress, it's own solar return chart, in combo with this profected year for the present..

upload pic

the obvious connections being made to this chart at present via the transits of mars at 23 scorpio and saturn at 10 sag get picked up right away. this year (2016) is profection lord jupiter - sag rising back to this 2000 chart, so greater importance is given to it's placement in the root chart and in the solar return chart which i have posted below..

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the 2016 solar return to this 2000 ju-sa conjunction chart has cancer 20 rising, so an emphasis into the 12th house of the root chart.. the sr midheaven is at 3 aries, where the moon is located in the 2000 chart.. the sr moon is on the 7th house cusp of the root chart as well.. mars at 29 scorpio squares the ascendant, while saturn opposes the mars/sun conjunction in the root chart.. here is a biwheel which might help.

upload pics

now, maybe i am reading too much into the charts! maybe i am off in not elaborating more on how these charts intertwine with each other, or have not given enough insight into how this particular year 2016 connects back to the 2000 jupiter-saturn conjunction root chart, but it is interesting if nothing else! my biggest regret is not also discussing how the aries ingress chart connects back to this 2000 jupiter-saturn conjunction.. perhaps someone else can take this up? here is a biwheel chart for this which hopefully someone else would like to take up? thanks

click image upload


bob - unique astrology.. quick response - the 8:58pm time for the dallas shooting is given in the wikipedia link i also shared..

i am away this week and not able to respond properly even today as i prepare to be away for the next few days.. thanks for sharing your valued perspectives here everyone..

mark,

thanks for your comments on the post saturday 9:55pm.. can i classify you as 'un-classifiable'? or would you prefer 'eclectic'? i must classify everyone and everything, lol..


unique astrology bob, 6:44am post

interesting idea of a geographic center for the usa close to lebannon, ks.. and tying the lunation before the event to the sibley chart is also interesting.. i am like mark in being a bit mystified by the use of right ascension connections, but i think it is relevant. thanks.


Last edited by james_m on Sun Jul 10, 2016 8:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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unique_astrology



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Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The celestial equivalent of longitude is called right ascension. Right ascension can be measured in degrees, but for historical reasons it is more common to measure it in time (hours, minutes, seconds). I use degrees and minutes because I think they are more familiar to those dealing with astrology.

If 2 or more bodies share the same right ascension and declination they form an eclipse as viewed from Earth.

The Speculum shows the New Moon Sun and Moon measured in right ascension to be the same distance from zero degrees Aries, expressed in degrees, and minutes of arc (6:56:08 in the standard hh:mm:ss), and Pluto just 2 arcminutes above the descendant.

Data copied from Solar Fire.

NM Dallas in RA Jul 4 2016 - Natal Chart
Jul 4 2016, 6:47:50 am, CDT +5:00
Dallas TX 32°N47' 096°W48'

...........................Upper.......Set
Parans to Mon....104°02'
Parans to Sun ....104°02'
Parans to Plu.......................003°07'
Parans to MC......003°05'


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