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Exaltation Degrees of the Planets
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Michael Douglas Neely



Joined: 10 Jul 2015
Posts: 14
Location: Seattle, Washington, USA

Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vic DiCara wrote:
IMO, the changes made by the Indian's were intentional.

They were coming from a nakṣatra-centered background, and wanted the exaltation degrees to make sense with the nakṣatras (using the then-current ayanamsha).

Here is a post with more information https://vicdicara.wordpress.com/2016/07/05/nakshatra-exaltations/


Hi Vic,

Thanks for posting a link to your paper. I am really interested in any ideas about the exaltation degrees.

Recently I have been talking with some professional mathematicians to see if they can see anything from a math history/principle perspective.

Michael
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Vic DiCara



Joined: 20 Jul 2017
Posts: 19

Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Me too.
There are a few things that need explanation: exaltation degrees is one. Another is the lengths and sequences of the various Indian dashas. These things have completely mystified me so far.
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Michael Douglas Neely



Joined: 10 Jul 2015
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Location: Seattle, Washington, USA

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 1:29 am    Post subject: Possible reasoning behind the Vimshottari Dasha Reply with quote

Vic DiCara wrote:
Me too.
There are a few things that need explanation: exaltation degrees is one. Another is the lengths and sequences of the various Indian dashas. These things have completely mystified me so far.


The only book I read that tries to explain the the length and sequences of the Vimshottari dasha is the Laghu Parasari by O.P. Verma (ISBN: 81-88230-04-0). On pages 10-11 he states,

"The Sun is the central star of our planetary system. If we start from the Sun, the orbits of various planets are as under: Sun, Mercury, Venus, Earth, Moon, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn. If instead of the Sun, we keep earth as the pivotal entity then the orbital order will be: Earth, Sun, Moon, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Mercury, and Venus.

Rahu and Ketu are also considered as planets, though in reality they are simply the intersection points of the paths of the earth and the Moon. These two nodes have their fixed place in the zodiac. Rahu is the point from where the Moon starts her northern course and Ketu is the point from where the Moon starts her southern course. Rahu and Ketu thus are the magnetic points which have retrograde motion and arrive at the same point after every 18 years. Solar and Lunar eclipses occur due to these two nodes and after every 18 years almost similar eclipses occur. Due to uniformity of their motion these are also the time rectifiers. Rahu-Ketu provide important clues to demarcate the exact path and location of the Moon. Due to this property, the ancients included Rahu-Ketu in the Dasa Scheme. For being northern intersection point Rahu finds a place between Mars and Jupiter and being the southern intersection point Ketu is placed between Mercury and Venus. The sequence of Dasas arrived at is: Sun, Moon, Mars, Rahu, Jupiter, Saturn, Mercury, Ketu, and Venus.

Rahu finds a place after the first three planets and Ketu after the next three planets i.e., Jupiter, Saturn, and Mercury.

One interesting fact which supports Vimsottari Dasa system of 120 years is, that, after 120 years, the Sun and the Moon are again on the same Nakshatra and the lunar date is again the same as it was 120 years back. In this way Vimsottari Dasa is Trikona (trine) Dasa of lunar mansions. Whatever may be Naksatra of birth 120 years of Dasa end at the 9th Naksatra from birth Naksatra."

He says a bit more for about a half a page, but I will stop here. I tried to trace his logic from what he wrote, but I could not come to the same conclusions as he did.
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Vic DiCara



Joined: 20 Jul 2017
Posts: 19

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:25 am    Post subject: Re: Possible reasoning behind the Vimshottari Dasha Reply with quote

Michael Douglas Neely wrote:
"The Sun is the central star of our planetary system. If we start from the Sun, the orbits of various planets are as under: Sun, Mercury, Venus, Earth, Moon, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn. If instead of the Sun, we keep earth as the pivotal entity then the orbital order will be: Earth, Sun, Moon, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Mercury, and Venus.


Do you understand this? I can't figure it out.

Michael Douglas Neely wrote:
For being northern intersection point Rahu finds a place between Mars and Jupiter and being the southern intersection point Ketu is placed between Mercury and Venus. The sequence of Dasas arrived at is: Sun, Moon, Mars, Rahu, Jupiter, Saturn, Mercury, Ketu, and Venus.


I can't make sense of what he is saying.

Michael Douglas Neely wrote:
One interesting fact which supports Vimsottari Dasa system of 120 years is, that, after 120 years, the Sun and the Moon are again on the same Nakshatra and the lunar date is again the same as it was 120 years back. In this way Vimsottari Dasa is Trikona (trine) Dasa of lunar mansions. Whatever may be Naksatra of birth 120 years of Dasa end at the 9th Naksatra from birth Naksatra.


That's interesting.

Michael Douglas Neely wrote:
He says a bit more for about a half a page, but I will stop here. I tried to trace his logic from what he wrote, but I could not come to the same conclusions as he did.


I suspect he is not logical. Tongue Out
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Michael Douglas Neely



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Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vic,

I also could not get the points that he was trying to make. I played with the transits examples he stated, but I did not come to the same results. I just posted it to see if I was missing something and someone could clarify things for me.
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Michael Sternbach



Joined: 01 Mar 2014
Posts: 491
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Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It might be of interest to some that the well known German astrologer Johannes Vehlow, in his Astrologie, vol. VIII, pp. 60-64, presented a scheme according to which the exaltations and falls of the planets follow a regular pattern based on the 108 angle (you may call this a tridecile aspect).

He takes both the Western and Indian exaltations of the Sun as points of departure, plus the exaltation of the Moon (which is the same in both systems). He fills the gaps with supposed exaltations and falls of the Transsaturnians and even two hypothetical Transsaturnians. I don't agree with the particular attributions he is making, but it would work with a different scheme too. - For the sake of completeness, I give the attributions the way I see them at the end of this post.

And some of Vehlow's positions have no planet sitting on them at all.

Just add 108 to each position in order to get the next one. I highlighted the traditional exaltations and falls in the following list.

However, it should be mentioned that there are some deviations from the degrees as given in the OP; however, we heard that those exist in the classical literature as well. Most importantly, Vehlow sees Mercury exalted on 13 Virgo, rather than on 15, and Saturn on 19 Libra, rather than on 21.

3 Taurus = Exaltation Moon
21 Leo = Exaltation Hypothetical Gemini ruler
9 Sagittarius = Fall Neptune
27 Pisces = Exaltation Venus
15 Cancer = Exaltation Jupiter
3 Scorpio = Fall Moon
21 Aquarius = Fall Hypothetical Gemini ruler
9 Gemini = Exaltation Neptune
27 Virgo = Fall Venus
15 Capricorn = Fall Jupiter
3 Taurus = Closing the circle

19 Aries = Exaltation Sun, Fall Saturn
7 Leo = Fall Hypothetical Taurus ruler
25 Scorpio = Exaltation Uranus
13 Pisces = Fall Mercury
1 Cancer = None
19 Libra = Exaltation Saturn, Fall Sun
7 Aquarius = Exaltation Hypothetical Taurus ruler
25 Taurus = Fall Uranus
13 Virgo = Exaltation Mercury
1 Capricorn = None
19 Aries = Closing the circle

The third series starts from the Indian exaltation of the Sun, which Vehlow assumes to be on 11 (rather than on 10) Aries, and has only one of the classical positions on it: Mars, which Vehlow believes to be exalted on 29 Capricorn (rather than on 28). However, these two "mistakes" balance each other out, so to speak. Meaning that, if you let the series begin on 10 (rather than on Vehlow's 11) Aries for the Sun, you will indeed hit 28 Capricorn for Mars, thus Vehlow's scheme stands "corrected." Anyway, I will give his original list of course in the following:

11 Aries = Indian exaltation Sun, Indian fall Sun
29 Cancer = Fall Mars
17 Scorpio = None
5 Pisces = None
23 Gemini = Fall Pluto
11 Libra = Indian Fall Sun, Indian exaltation Saturn
29 Capricorn = Exaltation Mars
17 Taurus = None
5 Virgo = None
23 Sagittarius = Exaltation Pluto
11 Aries = Closing the circle

For those who are interested, the following scheme represents the way I personally see the exaltations of the Transsaturnian planets, if you just substitute a hypothetical ruler of Taurus for the Descending Node in Gemini, and a hypothetical ruler of Virgo for the Ascending Node in Sagittarius.



Now the rulership couples as per modern astrology stand symmetrically to both sides of the 0 Taurus/0 Scorpio axis: Sun/Moon, Venus/hypothetical Taurus ruler, Neptune/Jupiter, Mars/Pluto, hypothetical Virgo ruler/Mercury, Uranus/Saturn.

IMO, this makes more sense than Vehlow's scheme: Neptune feels more comfortable in visionary Aquarius than in rationalistic Gemini, and Pluto is certainly happier in mighty Leo than in cheerful Sagittarius.

But as I said, Vehlow's tridecile based pattern could easily be adapted to the exaltations/falls as per my scheme.

This is not to say that I support Vehlow's conception, I just present it for discussion.

It would be interesting to find out where Vehlow may have gotten his particular set of degrees for the classical exaltations/falls from, in case anybody here happens to recognize them. It is hard to believe that an expert of his caliber would have simply made them up to fit his scheme.
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