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MBTI and Astrology

 
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 601

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:23 pm    Post subject: MBTI and Astrology Reply with quote

I always hear that the Myers-Briggs personality test has occult influences from Carl Jung but can never seem to find a reliable source as to how it was formulated with the humors (or whatever other astrological tools). Does anyone know more about this?

Do you find Myers-Briggs works? Do you see patterns with charts relating to certain types? I think it does seem to capture some general patterns of behavior. However, there is sort of a weird cultish following with it, and even some prejudism that I sometimes see with it (where people will judge someone based on their type).

I am not a huge fan of the test but I am just curious about the astrological basis. I once joined (and then left) a Facebook page of my type (INTJ-A) and found loads of people who seemed to think they should portray a stereotype of who they are, in order to fit in (which is actually counter to the test result). I did manage to meet an astrologer INTJ in the forum, and we did share some general similarities, including Mercury-Saturn trine, Neptune mixed in with rational thinking in general, afflicted Venus, Moon influenced by Saturn. I think he was also a bit choleric like me as well. I am curious if others have noticed astrological patterns that make sense with the type.
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moonbright



Joined: 21 Jul 2015
Posts: 159
Location: Canada

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Tanit:

I don't know about the occult influences and I've never attempted to compare it with astrology but I think it does work; my type seems to fit me well and other people seem to fit theirs.

However, I find it fairly cumbersome to put into practical use other than as a descriptor which makes me think I'll probably never attempt to do astrological comparison. I'd be more interested in doing that if I thought it made a good tool for personal growth.

The Enneagram, however, is something I really like and find astonishingly accurate as well as useful and at some point would like to compare to astrological charts. It is so succinct though that I wonder if it wouldn't put paid for the need for astrological charts. (I whispered that last bit, lol)

Something else to investigate if you're interested.

Cheers.
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The Moon is opposing Jupiter. Don't get involved, it's their problem. Jim Critchfield
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3058
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks tanit, for bringing it up and moonbright for suggesting the enneagram is worth looking into...

i haven't looked into myer briggs much, but have done a simple test a couple of times and come up infj - slightly different then the intj type that tanit lists herself as.. i am not sure what the a at the end is supposed to imply... i can't say i have gotten much from mbriggs and haven't tried to understand it astrologically... fwiw - i too have a mercury/saturn trine with a moon/saturn connection and a bit choleric as i see it... thus - that wouldn't be enough to get the intj, as i am infj which is different- lol...

if anyone finds out more, i would be curious...

moonbright - how do you suggest one goes about exploring the enneargram concept? thanks...
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 601

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
i am not sure what the a at the end is supposed to imply..


I guess it is a newer descriptive indicator of Assertive verus Turbulant types and doesn't have much bearing on MBTI, but showed up in at least one online quiz.

I was given a professional test in high school many years ago for career planning and still have the same type, which is interesting
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3058
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks tanit,

i would be curious to know if it is common, or not to change mbriggs personality types... maybe it is considered unusual, maybe not...
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petosiris



Joined: 08 Oct 2017
Posts: 128

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

james_m wrote:
thanks tanit,

i would be curious to know if it is common, or not to change mbriggs personality types... maybe it is considered unusual, maybe not...


MBTI is not very reliable when it comes to measuring personality, since it has been shown that up to 50% of people get classified with a different type after just a month. It is frequently given criticism in scientific papers, mostly related to the Barnum effect, same as modern astrology. - http://www.indiana.edu/~jobtalk/HRMWebsite/hrm/articles/develop/mbti.pdf

''The MBTI also has much intuitive appeal. The descriptions of each type are generally flattering and sufficiently vague so that most people will accept the statements as true of themselves. If you tell people that they are "innovative thinkers and good problem solvers, and good at understanding and motivating people, but may have trouble following through on details of a project," they will believe that the statement is an accurate description of themselves regardless of the truth of the statement. This phenomenon is known as the "Barnum Effect," named in honor of the great entertainer.'' - Pittenger, D. J. (1993). Measuring the MBTI… and coming up short. Journal of Career Planning and Employment, 54(1), 48-52.

I personally do not find it surprising that such pop psychology is very popular with modern astrologers. Personally, I think it is horrible.

Compare this with the psychology found in 3.13. of the Tetrabiblos which contains an abundance of both positive and very negative characteristics like magnificence, magnanimity, laziness, wickedness, indifference etc. - http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Ptolemy/Tetrabiblos/3D*.html#13

None of the MBTI categories contain those descriptions, whereas we all know they exist. They are much more evident, without ''but at the same time the opposite happens at times''. Inb4 Ptolemy was judgemental.
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 601

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, MBTI is considered silly in the scientific community, as it lacks a scientific basis, although I have spoken with some psychologists who are very defensive about its worth and claim that there is enough evidence that it works (the only things I have seen are non peer reviewed "studies"). The same would be said about astrology by many people and they would cite The Barnum Effect, though, yes, and I hear this all of the time from people I know. I am fairly open minded about knowledge that stems from the occult but you are right that people do get different results and I have heard as much. It probably is more accurate for those with strong opinions and who know themselves better, so their answers do not change in the whim of a moment (whatever their emotions are that day). One other flaw with the test is that the questions are not very multi factorial. For example, it asked me if I would fire someone who has low productivity at work but I have known personally for a long time. The question is meant to test whether you base choices on emotions or logic. My issue is that such a choice would also be based on whether the person was properly trained or not or if their low productivity was always a problem or current (maybe a situation that could be alleviated due to a health issue, etc.). There were several questions I felt I could not answer without more information so i chose the middle score.
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Serene



Joined: 24 Jul 2017
Posts: 129

Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used to find it fun during my college days. I saw that I have a different type now from then. Back in those days I took this test multiple times and enjoyed it and got the same type. I don't think it has occult influences and it is not as multidimensional and complex as astrology. And like others have said it doesn't account for different factors and is very black and white with no greys in between. Like Tanit 's example of the employee scenario. There was one test though which I remember I really liked, much more than MBTI - the Rorschach inkblot test. There was this website back then which used to offer a very sophisticated version of that test and it used to be my absolute favourite! Cool
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Konrad



Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 685

Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Serene wrote:
I used to find it fun during my college days. I saw that I have a different type now from then. Back in those days I took this test multiple times and enjoyed it and got the same type. I don't think it has occult influences and it is not as multidimensional and complex as astrology. And like others have said it doesn't account for different factors and is very black and white with no greys in between. Like Tanit 's example of the employee scenario. There was one test though which I remember I really liked, much more than MBTI - the Rorschach inkblot test. There was this website back then which used to offer a very sophisticated version of that test and it used to be my absolute favourite! Cool


You might be interested to read Case and Phillipson's 'Astrology and Alchemy - the Occult Roots of MBTI' which is in the spring 2004 European Business Forum.
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Serene



Joined: 24 Jul 2017
Posts: 129

Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Konrad, thanks for the reference. I did not know that the MBTI types are based on occult sciences! I just read some article related to your reference and found out that he concepts in MBTI were taken from esoteric philosophy. What I had in mind while answering the question was that the process of the test or the actual test itself is not an occult activity or divination like say for example horary astrology. But i guess that is obvious to all so kinda dumb of me to jump in with my opinion Very Happy

This website has some info about it https://www.intjs.org/mbti-occult-ties-exposed/ . Sorry if someone else already posted the link as I haven't read all answers here.

But then on a sidenote i guess esoteric philosophy /occult science explains the basis of everything in this Universe so everthing can be seen in its light .
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Konrad



Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 685

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Serene wrote:
Hello Konrad, thanks for the reference. I did not know that the MBTI types are based on occult sciences! I just read some article related to your reference and found out that he concepts in MBTI were taken from esoteric philosophy. What I had in mind while answering the question was that the process of the test or the actual test itself is not an occult activity or divination like say for example horary astrology. But i guess that is obvious to all so kinda dumb of me to jump in with my opinion Very Happy

This website has some info about it https://www.intjs.org/mbti-occult-ties-exposed/ . Sorry if someone else already posted the link as I haven't read all answers here.

But then on a sidenote i guess esoteric philosophy /occult science explains the basis of everything in this Universe so everthing can be seen in its light .


I understand, and you are welcome.
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