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Chart Interpretation Input?
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Mark
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Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 4955
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 6:47 pm    Post subject: Chart Interpretation Input? Reply with quote

Hi Folks,

I would appreciate a bit input on a chart I recently agreed to work on.

Its for my Great Niece. She is going to be 17 on Saturday and I perhaps unwisely agreed to get involved in doing her chart interpretation for her birthday! In some ways I find this a lot tricker than doing a chart for a total stranger.

Also I am used to working on full adults charts where I can get into both the positive and more challenging areas. But at just 17 that sounds a bit heavy. I would think a teenager needs a positive upbeat tone that identifies potential and life opportunities.

Another thing that made me think of making this post is that the chart has a very heavy focus on just one sign of ie Virgo with the Sun, Moon, ASC and Mercury in the sign. I always think these kinds of charts are harder to delineate. It clearly brings an all eggs in one basket tendency.

I can tell you a bit on my Great Niece to match to the astrology. She is a champion Highland dancer and is very involved in this scene performing all over the UK. I think this fits the Moon-Mercury conjunction in the chart.

She is academically bright and has done well in her exams (no great surprise with all that Virgo!)

But I understand she can be quite moody (even for a teenage girl) . This resonates with the New Moon close to her ASC degree. Moon is partile square MC. I am thinking she may pursue drama and dance further?

On the darker side she has had some issues with bullying at School.

Clearly a strong earth focus with no less than 5 out of the 7 traditional planets in that element. A heavy mutable focus too. So a lot of practicality, and versatility.

I can obviously put an interpretation together myself but I thought it would be useful to have some feedback on the chart for anything that hits you in the chart I may have missed.

I have put the chart up in Whole Sign, Equal and Placidus houses below.

Any feedback is most welcome. I should say I need to finish this by Friday morning so I obviously haven't left long for feedback here!

Thanks

Mark






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Astraea



Joined: 04 Oct 2004
Posts: 351
Location: Colorado, USA

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would put the emphasis on technique as the royal road to self-expression; refinement of detail, precision, attention to form, in the service of one's art - bullying be damned.
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Mark
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Joined: 30 Sep 2005
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Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Astraea wrote:
Quote:
I would put the emphasis on technique as the royal road to self-expression; refinement of detail, precision, attention to form, in the service of one's art - bullying be damned.


Ok. That is a little terse. Are you discussing the astrological delineation methodology you apply or the expression of the person in the chart itself with that heavy emphasis on Virgo and a Sun-Saturn trine?

Thanks

Mark
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alex62



Joined: 26 Aug 2014
Posts: 90
Location: UK , Cardiff

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it between 2002 and 2005 was some health problems?
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Astraea



Joined: 04 Oct 2004
Posts: 351
Location: Colorado, USA

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark wrote:
Astraea wrote:
Quote:
I would put the emphasis on technique as the royal road to self-expression; refinement of detail, precision, attention to form, in the service of one's art - bullying be damned.


Ok. That is a little terse. Are you discussing the astrological delineation methodology you apply or the expression of the person in the chart itself with that heavy emphasis on Virgo and a Sun-Saturn trine?

Thanks

Mark

I meant that as an expression of her personality, she would do well to pursue her affinity for detail, technique, application of principle - precisely what is called for in her Highland dancing. The rest of the world be damned (where bullying is concerned). Don't be afraid or ashamed to be different, to focus, to specialize along the particular lines of interest and in the directions where her talents lie.
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Fleur



Joined: 05 Feb 2014
Posts: 684

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mars is 17 degrees from her IC, which indicates the age of 17, and I have noticed sometimes these Solar Arcs to Mars from the chart angles can indicate winning a major competition, such as Margaret Thatcher when she won the election to become prime minister.

I assumed this could relate to Highland dancing, but it could also, in Sagittarius in the third house, indicate winning an academic scholarship of some kind, maybe a place at a prestigious art college?

Mercury's antiscion is 11.5 degrees Aries in the seventh house, and is 17 degrees from her Descendant, which would also affect her at 17 years old. Her Sun's antiscion is very close to Mercury's. Again, I am not sure if this refers to dancing or something academic. The seventh house could mean competitors or possibly bullies, open enemies.

This area of the Sun's antiscion at 13 degrees Aries and Mercury's at 11.5 degrees Aries in the seventh house has also been heavily transited in the past few years, by the transiting square of Pluto in Capricorn and Uranus in Aries. This does seem to relate to bullying? That particular transiting square affected a lot of people, and the energy does seem to have got easier for some people it affected, since the transit passed. The current Solar Arc doesn't have the same potentially very difficult energy.

Her Moon's antiscion is 8.5 degrees Aries in the seventh house, which would have got a Solar Arc from the Descendant around the age of 13 and a half to 15 and a half, at the same time as transiting Pluto was around 8.5 degrees Capricorn. This seems to be showing quite an intense emotional experience, maybe involving her mother or grandmother? Definitely a combination of transit and solar arc that would make anybody at least moody. In November 2013 for instance, there was a Uranus Pluto square with Uranus exactly conjunct her Moon's antiscion.

I just looked up her Phaethon and it is 21 degrees Virgo, exactly conjunct her Moon, so its antiscion will also be 9 degrees Aries in the seventh house, and get the same transits. Also, Phaethon has a special effect on the Moon, which shows how the Moon responds to transits. I am thinking that the Uranus transit of 8 or 9 degrees Aries in 2013 was positive for your great niece, and possibly turned around what had been a difficult emotional period into something very positive that came out of the blue. Maybe winning contests (seventh house). Interesting that she does Highland dancing, as Eric Morse wrote that Phaethon represents racial and ancestral memory, things that once were, reconstructing these things. Both her Moon Phaethon conjunction so close to her Ascendant, and their antiscia in the seventh house, seem very significant in her chart. This conjunction is also exactly square to her MC/IC axis which represents career, and being a Scottish birth the birth time is presumably from the birth certificate and accurate.

That Moon Phaethon conjunction is associated with the Jupiter Neptune square, which is fantastic for anything artistic.

Right now the Solar Arc of her Midheaven has reached 9.5 degrees Cancer, which squares this antiscion of her Moon and Phaethon, so her career is involved with this conjunction at the moment.

Neptune is currently making some good transits to her Venus, Moons Nodes, etc, so maybe this indicates something like her planning to go to art college and meet a lot of new people who are much nicer than those she is stuck with at school?


Last edited by Fleur on Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 2897
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi mark,

thanks for presenting your great niece's chart and asking! i agree it is more difficult when you know a person, then when you don't - to do their chart.. basically i find it all difficult!

this chart gets me into that quagmire of how to interpret planets close to the sun.. i mostly see it as a strength when planets are close to the sun, although that isn't how traditional astro tends to view it.. mercury seems very strong in the chart and is ruler of the ascendant/midheaven in what i would call the 1st house - so a positive chart in that she has the ability to act, or release the energy associated with those planets being so close to the ascendant..

i mostly think of dance as neptune.. not sure what the astro symbol is for it traditionally speaking.. obviously venus is connected to the arts.. sun is approx 135 neptune in the chart here.. venus is conjunct the north node both suggesting artistic traits and strengths... i see venus also strong given it's stationary position and of course the planet that rises before the sun - which can sometimes make it a vocational indicator candidate.. the fact it is in opp to uranus while both square onto saturn in the 9th house area and in venus's sign - taurus, make venus an important planet to the chart.. crazy first thought was moon on ascendant with 9th house ruler strong as some sort of public 9th house type emphasis... that could be a few things!

but, that is a pretty wide net to cast and it is easier to think about the present - girl turning 17 and what she might be focused on at this time.. solar return with saturn as the loy - again emphasizes the saturn in the 9th, so the question about what direction is she going to pursue with regard to higher education - college/university.. is this her last year of high school, or is she going into first year at something? i think it is the former.. it might be an interesting topic to bring up..

that bullying thing strikes me like mars/pluto conjunction in the 3rd.. saturn has been putting a focus on that this past year too, with the help of mars - both transiting same area... does she have any brothers, or older siblings? they might take on a more important role here at present.. mars rules the 8th and 3rd... solar return 2016 mars squares mercury, so this is highlighted more at present..

young girls are often caught up in boyfriends and romance.. not sure how that plays out here, but uranus on the descendant in the solar return chart, while being opposite venus in the natal chart is interesting here..7th ruler jupiter is rising in the 1st by transit, but 12th in the solar return chart... that venus-saturn square in her own chart seems restrictive and not all that confident in the relationship dept.. perhaps something or someone is going to come along to shake that up some? the 2016 sr ascendant axis runs across the 2nd/8th houses..

the chart lacks water, although the moon is strong in terms of it's position on the chart at the ascendant.. i am not sure what this means in terms of her intuitive abilities to read others... moon rising can be self possessed, which is kinda cool in that they ( especially new moon one's) can be very spontaneous on the emotive level and sharing their feelings - virgo more shy and less so - but a strength as i see it in many ways.. moon rules the 11th, so perhaps some close friends who are helpful to her too.. this is probably the '''moody'' characteristic you mentioned in your comments... typical moon rising thing which i have too - worse cause i have it in scorpio!!

anyway - good luck with your sharing astro with your grand niece... i think a focus on where she is going on terms of her education is a good talking point regardless and it fits with saturn as loy and presently running thru the 3rd headed to her i.c.


Last edited by james_m on Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:40 am; edited 2 times in total
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Fleur



Joined: 05 Feb 2014
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Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with James that Pluto seems the likely suspect for bullying, and is here 14 degrees from her IC, so would get a Solar Arc at age 14. Pluto would also get a Solar Arc from the Ascendant at age 16.
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi fleur.. thanks! i mostly see bullying as some type of mars/pluto, as opposed to only pluto.. probably could be something else too, but that was the most obvious combo in the chart that seemed to point towards that, especially with regard to men.. maybe it could be the venus/saturn square, or venus opp uranus if it involves women? so many possibilities in the symbolic language of astrology! does it involve men or women? i suspect now, it is probably women on women, but i could be wrong.. in which case i would give it to the venus/saturn square - identifying with venus and throwing off the saturn onto others - bullies... what do you think of looking at it this way? maybe it is the uranus on the south node opp venus too.. maybe that is a better symbolic fit? what house would reflect a bully the best?
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map



Joined: 23 Nov 2013
Posts: 33

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Mark,

Looks like the native will take to management / Economics / Accountancy. She will continue her passion (dance). She will be very comfortable as a teacher. Her strength is her intelligence.
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Fleur



Joined: 05 Feb 2014
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Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

james_m wrote:
hi fleur.. thanks! i mostly see bullying as some type of mars/pluto, as opposed to only pluto.


I am puzzling over that, as the Solar Arcs from the angles to Pluto were not accompanied by bad transits, although Neptune was squaring this Pluto at the same time as the Solar Arcs, it wasn't forming a bad transit....or to Mars.

I would be looking for positive effects from this Solar Arc and Neptune transit, such as the sheer energy needed for Highland dancing. It just doesn't look like a bad indicator at all, though Pluto itself could possibly always have a dark side to it when hit by a Solar Arc from a chart angle, compared with a planet like Jupiter which would always tend to be beneficial all on its own.
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Fleur



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Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My impression, and I could easily be wrong, is that this girl is very talented with lots of energy, and also very fragile and emotional. She may face problems about five years from now and especially when transiting IsisTranspluto squares her natal Mars, when it starts applying within one degree. This could be just a fault of my interpretation and limited knowledge, and isn't something you should say to her, just be aware of what is happening if she has difficulties at that time. It could manifest as a very positive Mars in Sagittarius, and anyway the only thing you can do is try to use it positively even if it hurts...and five years is a long time away.
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map



Joined: 23 Nov 2013
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Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMO, bullying in school is because of Mars.
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Fleur



Joined: 05 Feb 2014
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Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

map wrote:
IMO, bullying in school is because of Mars.


Yes, her Mars is in her third house, which represents school. So is Pluto. But this could also mean being very good at school sports or dancing or anything needing a huge amount of physical energy, especially in Sagittarius.

In my observations, Mars and even more so Venus are often about mental and emotional fragility, and some transits to them can indicate breakdowns.

Pluto all on its own can give this undeserved victimisation from the collective, or where it is very difficult to know who is behind what is happening to you.

It is because Mars and Pluto are in her third house which represents school that we assume that these are what is behind the bullying, which it may be. There was so much going on in her seventh house of open enemies, both Solar Arcs from the angles and that powerful Pluto Uranus square, that the cause of the bullying could be more complex, and be intertwined with the very positive things she is doing. I am actually seeing all these transits and SA's as more positive than negative.
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Nostradamus_1984



Joined: 08 Sep 2016
Posts: 2

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quick remarks:

Sun and Mercury together in conjunction in the sign of Mercury-high intellectual ability.

Saturn and Jupiter in unfamiliar region of sky and commanding the chart through superior aspect to the sun and other planets. Troubles and injustices afflicting the early part of her life, here is the part of bullying and moodiness.

Mars position okay and near Antares but afflicted by ill placed Saturn/Jupiter (near opposition). The good influence of Jupiter is turned on its head here, she may take up pursuits or make choices not befitting expectations and which may displease her parents.

A good Jupiter/Saturn aspect to Aries is what you're looking for to overcome the difficulties because this is the main detriment in her chart.
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