Horary rules on Timing applied to Nativities

1
Hello all

I was shocked today to find out that the horary rules on timing WORK in nativities as well. Just consider tha natal chart as a horary chart and use Regiomontanus.

Examples: Bruce Lee and his son, Brandon Lee, they both died of violent deaths. Using the 1st and 8th house significators and the proper measuring unit we get their time of death with surprising accuracy.

Bruce Lee: born Nov. 27 1940, San Francisco, CA, 7:12 am PST
Death: April 20 1973 (cause: total mystery - apparently it was some allergy, as far as I know)

Brandon Lee: born Feb 1 1965, Oakland CA, USA, 5:48 am PST
Death: Apr 1 1993 (in an explosion while filming)

Bruce Lee - died after 32 years
1st house ruler - Jupiter - retrograde in Taurus, fixed sign (=slow, measuring unit=years)
Substracting (retrograde) 32 degrees from Jupiter's position we get 4 Aries a degree which is in square (violent death) with the 8th house cusp (at 4 Cancer) and inconjunct (mystery death) with the 8th house Almuten, Mars.

Brandon Lee - died after 28 years and 2 months
1st house ruler - Saturn - direct in Pisces, mutable sign (=average speed, measuring unit=months)
Converting 28 years and 2 months into months we get 28*12+2=338 months
Adding (direct motion) 338 degrees to Saturn's position we get 12 Aquarius, the EXACT natal position of the 8th house ruler, the Sun.

I admit I do not know much about Traditional astrology applied to Nativities and I found this to be totally amazing... !

I would love to hear others' thoughts on this, of people more versed in Traditional astrology: is it always so ?!?

Ok, now I get back to work, I wil be reviewing my entire life applying Lilly's rules on timing to my Regiomontanus natal chart, let's see what comes out of this.

Please comment this !

2
This reminds me of one of those take the first number you think of, double it, take away the age of your dog at her last birthday, etc. There seems to be no consistency in the way these two examples have applied. They use entirely different calculations that seem quite arbitrary. My immediate reaction would be to dismiss it.

3
Sue, I would not be so pesimistic before I check it out! Sometimes another see some things that we are not conscious until they point them to us. If we are thinking that there is nothing left to us to discover it is so sad.

Goca

4
Sue wrote:There seems to be no consistency in the way these two examples have applied.
I just thought that the horary rules for timing could be applied in nativities, one measures the arc distance until the perfection of an aspect between the significators (in this case, 1st and 8th house rulers) using as the measuring unit the nature of the sign where the 1st house ruler is located in:
fixed signs - years
mutable signs - months
cardinal signs - weeks

Another example: Marilyn Monroe - June 1, 1926, 9:30 am PST, Los Angeles CA

Leo rising - 1st H ruler- the Sun
8th H cusp in Pisces, ruler - Jupiter
The arc distance between the Sun and the perfection of the opposition with Jupiter is 76.5 degrees
The measuring unit is months because the Sun is in Gemini, a mutable sign.
76.5 months is too early, that is only about 6.5 years.
Yet one more tour around the zodiac and we get almost the exact time: 76.5+360 months=436.5 months=36 years and 4.5 months
Marilyn committed suicide at the age of 36 years, 2 months and a few days. That's only 2 months off the astrologically calculated time.

There are plenty of other examples, they are not the hard part.

The hard part is:

How could one figure out which significator of the 8th house to use: ruler Jupiter, almuten Venus or maybe the 8th house cusp ?
And also which aspect to that significator to use? conjunction, square or opposition ?

I don't have an answer to these questions. I don't know. Maybe that's why the timing is so tricky in horary.
I just hoped that studying the nativities we could get some experience in order to learn how to better deal with timing.

Best wishes,
Radu

5
The hard part is:

How could one figure out which significator of the 8th house to use: ruler Jupiter, almuten Venus or maybe the 8th house cusp ?
And also which aspect to that significator to use? conjunction, square or opposition ?
The hard part is that these methods only seem to work after the fact, i.e. after the person is dead. If it isn't even clear which significator to use, and it can only be decided by working backwards, how can anyone hope to use this method with success? Of what possible use could it be?
If we are thinking that there is nothing left to us to discover it is so sad.
This isn't a discovery, it is a theory. Choosing not to accept everything that comes along isn't being pessemistic, it is being discriminating. I thought about this method and it makes no sense to me.

6
At my current level of understanding of astrology I'm still exploring the possibilities.
You are right, Sue, a method is really valuable only if it can be applied and get the answer before the actual event happens. The astrology seems so easy IF applied backwards. But that's not the point in astrology. The whole point is to figure it out before it happens.

7
Hi,

It's always fun to play about with these kind of ideas. However, when it comes to things like death, we Astrologers can get ourselves some very bad press, so we must be careful what we put out there.

Having said that, I thought about this method and two things spring to mind:

Firstly, you say the timing depends on the modality of the sign which the 1st house ruler is in, but in horary it is the modality of the planet which applies to perfect the aspect. E.g. if your first house ruler is Saturn, say in Scorpio, but the 8th ruler is Mercury, say in Virgo, then Mercury being the faster moving planet (in general), its mutability would be significant in trying to determine the timing.

Secondly, just to be a really 'picky' Virgo, can we just do a quick survey here, based on the method you outline, which takes into account the sign in which the ruler of the 1st house is located?

Q. How many people have the ruler of their first house in a Cardinal or a Mutable sign?

Count me in on that one, and by the reckoning of your theory I should have died in infancy.

Having said that, it's still fascinating - as long as it's not taken too literally :P
Susan,
Edinburgh.
www.horaryqueen.co.uk