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Skyscript Astrology Forum

Horoscope for the birth of Islam. Comment on birth data.

 
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blackknight29



Joined: 19 Sep 2016
Posts: 2

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 1:23 am    Post subject: Horoscope for the birth of Islam. Comment on birth data. Reply with quote

Mark, a moderator here at skyscript forum, posted a horoscope for the birth of Islam back in 2010 (26 May) where he claims the birth data are Friday 16 July 622 A.D., Medina, Saudi Arabia, 24N28, 39E36, 6.45 pm LMT. (See Mark's horoscope for Islam here: http://www.skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5381&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 ).

The above birth data are not likely to be correct.

According to Islamic tradition the date of Islam's birth is Thursday 15 July 622 A.D., Mecca, Saudi Arabia, 21N27, 39E49, 6.39 pm LMT. The reason for these data are that Islam was founded when Mohammad left Mecca and the Islamic day begins at sunset. I have found a few sources that confirm this:

“It was in Madinah that the Profet organized and established his Islamic state after his emigration from Makkah (15 July 622 AD). This emigration (the hijrah) marked an important stage in the development of Islam, and its importance was recognized some years afterwards when it was adopted as the epoch from which events in Muslim history were reckoned (Levy, 1957).” Cited from Al-Buraey, Muhammad A., Administrative Development – an Islamic Perspective, Routledge, London, 2010, p. 63.

“The hijra took place on Thursday, 15 July, 622 A.D. The era begins on the day following, so that Friday, 16 July, A.D. 622, is equivalent to the 1st of Muharram A.H. 1 (i.e. year 1 of the hijra). The year is a lunar one of 354 days.” Cited from Levy, Reuben, Orientalism: Early Souces, The Social Structure of Islam, vol. 12, Routledge, London, 2000 (First published 1957), page 2.

The Islamic calendar is based on the Moon and, as mentioned, a day begins at sunset, so the correct date for the birth of Islam must be Thursday 15 July 622 A.D.

Below I have inserted a chart drawing of Islam's horoscope based on the data I have been able to find and which I believe are verified by Islamic sources.

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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 2862
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi bk29...

your chart looks much like the chart in marks first post on the thread you point to in your first paragraph.. so, what is it about the chart that you don't think is correct? your rising degree is maybe 1 degree off the chart mark shared!! is that it? it seems like i am missing something in your commentary here... my software gives a degree of 27 cap 07 via solar fire 7.3...

bottom line - you are using the same data mark is using..

ps - welcome to skyscript..
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blackknight29



Joined: 19 Sep 2016
Posts: 2

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:18 am    Post subject: Islam's horoscope. Reply with quote

The difference is the day of the horoscope. Mark's chart is calculated for the 16th of July 622 A.D. My chart is calculated for the 15th of July 622 A.D. To mention one significant difference in the horoscopes, try to take a look at the position of the moon. It is void of course in Mark's horoscope because it is 27Leo14, i.e. the moon forms no further aspects before it leaves the sign Leo and travels into the sign Virgo. In the horoscope I have calculated the moon is 13Leo03 and is moving towards an exact conjunction with venus at 14Leo04 and thereafter a conjunction with mercury at 18Leo53.
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 2862
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi bk,

thanks for pointing that out... now i see it.. the font on your chart is so small and all i was paying attention to was that the moon is in leo in both charts...

i seem to recall the question of moon visibility being relevant.. i am guessing one could see the moon on the july 15th date, but i don't know how far it has to be away from the sun for this to take place... in the july 15th chart, it is in the western sky, just not sure about the visibility.. i think that might explain why the 16th date was chosen... mark will have to comment.. thanks for bringing it up.. the association of islam with venus would take on greater relevance if the july 15th chart was used..

cheers james
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Mark
Moderator


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 4954
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blacknight29 wrote:

Quote:
The difference is the day of the horoscope. Mark's chart is calculated for the 16th of July 622 A.D. My chart is calculated for the 15th of July 622 A.D. To mention one significant difference in the horoscopes, try to take a look at the position of the moon. It is void of course in Mark's horoscope because it is 27Leo14, i.e. the moon forms no further aspects before it leaves the sign Leo and travels into the sign Virgo. In the horoscope I have calculated the moon is 13Leo03 and is moving towards an exact conjunction with venus at 14Leo04 and thereafter a conjunction with mercury at 18Leo53.


First off welcome to the forum!

Secondly, you are mistaken in attributing the chart in the thread to me. As I made clear it is the chart suggested by Nicholas Campion in his Book of World Horoscopes. So its not 'Mark's chart' and I dont actually advocate it or any other chart based on the calendar derived from the Hijrah.

Thirdly, it looks like you didn't read much of the thread. I find that rather disappointing as I put a lot of effort into it! There are some excellent contributions in the thread. If you read on further you will see I got into a major debate with Juan Revilla on whether any chart for Islam based on the Islamic calendar is really valid. I dont want to repeat my arguments all over again here. I spent a lot of time putting together my arguments so I refer you to the existing thread. But in a nutshell I made the point this calendar selected for the Hijrah was arrived at many years later and was timed retrospectively because there was no dating for other events in Islam. Personally, I actually, concur with the traditional astrological idea of using the chart for the Jupiter-Saturn conjunction prior to the birth of the prophet Muhammed as the best way of representing the Islamic faith.

Lastly, I have to state your post sits rather oddly on its own like this. Your comments should be made in the existing thread you give the link to. Please move your comments over there as I intend to delete this thread later this week. We can discuss your ideas on the existing thread.

Thanks

Mark
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‘’As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity…’’ William Lilly
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