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Assassinated Presidents and the 1842 Great Mutation.
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Vicki



Joined: 14 Aug 2012
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Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:54 am    Post subject: Assassinated Presidents and the 1842 Great Mutation. Reply with quote

Assassinated US Presidents and the 1842 Great Mutation

I have searched through the forum and cannot find a thread on this subject but nonetheless I realise that someone else must have already covered it and I am also aware I am treading on ground where many astrologers have been before.

I have been reading Barbara Watters “Horary Astrology and the Judgment of Events” in which she said that since the Great Mutation of 1942 every president elected or inaugurated in the year of the Lesser Mutation has died in office.

This is the 20 year cycle known as “The Curse of Tecumseh”. Since I’m not keen on the idea of curses I decided to look into what I suspected might be an astrological reason for this. However had I known that there were so many proposed USA charts in existence I would never have undertaken this exercise so maybe it’s fortuitous because I think I’ve found something interesting. I do emphasise though that I would never seek to claim that this is the “right”chart .

I decided to concentrate on the four assassinated presidents and not the ones who died in office.

Here is the chart of the horoscope of the USA 1776 2.17 am which I found in Barbara Watters’s book., the only difference being that I have cast it in equal houses to illustrate my point.

[img]


The Great Mutation of 26th Jan 1842 was at 8 Capricorn 54. Note that this conjoins the 8th equal house cusp of 8 Capricorn 21 and forms a quincunx aspect to the ascendant of 8 Gemini 21 conjoining Uranus at 8 Gemini 53. This aspect could scarcely get much closer.
I have found this degree of between 8 – 9 degrees to recur in the presidents’ assassination event charts.

Abraham Lincoln was shot on 14th April 1865 in Washington DC at 10.15 pm. The asc. of the event chart was at 9 Sagittarius 42 conjoining the Moon at 9 Sag 12 opposing the US Mundane chart Asc. / Uranus. Also Neptune was at 8 Aries 40 squaring the mutation 8th house cusp degree.

James Garfield was shot on 2nd July 1881 in Washington DC at 9.30am. The asc. of the event chart was at 8 Virgo 29 conjoining Uranus at 10 Virgo 33. The asc. closely squares the US Mundane chart asc/Uranus and forms a trine to the mutation 8th house cusp degree.

William McKinley was shot on 6th Sept.1901 in Buffalo, New York at 4.07 pm. Saturn was rising at 9 Capricorn 50 above the asc. conjoining the US 8th house cusp and of course the mutation 8th house cusp degree. The asc. was at 20 Capricorn 30 and the antiscion of this is 8 Sagittarius 30 opposing the US asc/Uranus.

John Kennedy was shot on 22nd Nov 1963 in Dallas, Texas at 12.30 pm. Here we have Jupiter at 9 Aries 48 squaring the mutation degree, Uranus at 9 Virgo 48 squaring the US asc./Uranus and Venus at 21 Sag 26 whose antiscion of 8 Capricorn 34 is at the mutation 8th house cusp degree.

So all the assassination charts show the recurrence of this 8-9 degrees and a connection to the mutation 8th house cusp degree.

Now to the issue of the 20 year cycle.

I always work with one degree symbolic arcs in any chart, both natal and mundane..

The Great Mutation was at 8 Cap 54 in 1842. Look at the US chart and move the mutation by the one degree symbolic method by 18 years to the 1860 election of Lincoln and we arrive at a conjunction with Pluto.
Next move 20 degrees to the 1880 election of Garfield and we arrive at the US Moon.
Next move 20 degrees to the 1900 election of McKinley and we arrive at 8 Pisces forming a square to the US asc./Uranus.
Next move 20 degrees to the 1960 election of Kennedy and we arrive at 8 Taurus which forms a trine to the mutation degree.

After this the cycle was broken. Yes, we move 20 degrees to 18 Taurus in 1980 when Reagan was elected and this was square the US Moon. However in 1981/82 there was a triple conjunction mutation in Libra and this then ended the pattern. Reagan survived an assassination attempt. Bush was elected in 2000 and did not die in office.

I realise that all this might appear overly simplistic to some and the presence of all those other charts (of which I was completely unaware when I undertook this small project) might take away from what I have found. I hope I haven't made any daft mistakes. I'm afraid I am prone to them with my neurological problems. Anyway this is for anyone who might be interested.
[/img]


Last edited by Vicki on Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Fleur



Joined: 05 Feb 2014
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Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had to look up the Great Mutation http://mhunting.tripod.com/id8.html
I thought it had to do with the 20 year Saturn Jupiter conjunctions, but this article says there is something special about the 60 year cycle, every three conjunctions, I am not sure why. I have glanced at this before and not found any significance in it, but maybe didn't study it enough. My impression is that some of these degree areas are much more persistent in their significance than a mere 20 years or even 60 years, and the fact that Charles Carter writing a century and a half ago pinpointed degree areas that are still valid today suggests there is something much more permanent than just Saturn Jupiter conjunctions, these things do not change every 20 years or even every 60 years, and you might find, if you could locate accurate data, that the assassinations of Roman emperors were subject to the same degree areas.

I looked up King Charles I on astro data bank http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Charles_I,_King
If you scroll down on this page, there is a hyperlink to a chart showing the transits for the day of his execution, but only the planets after Jupiter as the time is not known. Jupiter is 9 degrees Libra 7 minutes, Saturn is 9 degrees Gemini 8 minutes, and Pluto is 8 degrees Gemini 9 minutes.

Natally King Charles I's Sun is 8 degrees Sagittarius 7 minutes, Mercury 9 degrees Sagittarius 25 minutes, Jupiter 20 degrees Virgo 05 minutes (antiscion 9 degrees Aries 55 minutes).
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Vicki



Joined: 14 Aug 2012
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Location: Nottingham U.K.

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fleur what you have said about other assassinations is extremely interesting. Another light bulb moment!

Like you, I do believe that Charles Charter was on to something very significant, looking at particular degrees.

I am currently working on another project concerning astrologers' degrees which I won't go into here because it will take away from the main focus of this thread. Just to say it is really fascinating me that I am finding degrees that appear not to precess.

I am no expert on the Jupiter/Saturn cycle per se but I was just looking at the correlation between the 8-9 Gemini USA chart and the 1842 mutation degree.
What you have said casts that USA chart in yet another light. Thank you.
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Vicki



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Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to say that the antiscion of Donald Trump's Moon is at 8 Capricorn 48 which is in opposition to his radical Mercury at 8 Cancer 51.

At the time of the election transiting Neptune is at 9 Pisces close to his Pars Hyleg and Lot of Spirit , depending on the accuracy of his birth time.
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vicki wrote:
Quote:
I am currently working on another project concerning astrologers' degrees which I won't go into here because it will take away from the main focus of this thread. Just to say it is really fascinating me that I am finding degrees that appear not to precess.

Your research so far is interesting, Vicki. But I have two comments:

(1) Since here in the US when noting dates, we place the month first and then the day, it would eliminate confusion if you spelled out or abbreviated the name of the month rather than using numerals.

(2) I'm wondering if by "appear not to precess" you mean degrees in the tropical zodiac? If so, the tropical zodiac precesses, but the sidereal zodiac remains in place in relation to stars and does not precess. Either way precession is a critical question in any research that covers many years or centuries in time. So can you clarify your terms for us? Thanks!

Therese
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Vicki



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Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Therese,

I have now altered all the dates so that they are clear for everyone.

Regarding "appear not to precess" I mean that the degree stays the same as though it were in its sidereal position. I can perhaps illustrate this by giving an example:-

You've no doubt heard of the so called "accursed degree" of 19 Scorpio. This is an example of a degree that doesn't precess even if many astrologers would have reservations about such a concept.

When Fleur gave the info. about Charles 1st I wondered whether this 8-9 degree might be another such example. Precession is so slow that an example further back in time such as with Charles 1st made me think about a non precessing degree. However many more examples would need to be found and for now I relate the 8-9 degree just to the 1776 2.17 a.m. chart and the Great Mutation degree.
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vicki wrote:
Quote:
Regarding "appear not to precess" I mean that the degree stays the same as though it were in its sidereal position.

I'm still somewhat confused, Vicki. If you mean that a degree, such as 19 Scorpio has consistent symbolism and remains the same through the centuries in the tropical zodiac, then that is a precessed degree because the tropical zodiac is always shifting in relation to the stars. That degree is not fixed on the eclilptic, but continues to change position.

If the symbolism of the 8 to 9 degree area shifts in the tropical zodiac over time, then that degree is fixed and non-precessed. The degree remains the same against the stars while the tropical zodiac shifts with the equinox.

This is a confusing issue for many astrologers, which is why I'm trying to get a clear picture of a degree you say doesn't change. (This is one of my favorite research areas, and needs a lot more work by astrologers!)
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Last edited by Therese Hamilton on Sat Oct 01, 2016 6:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Message removed to avoid confusion for tropical astrologers.
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Last edited by Therese Hamilton on Sat Oct 01, 2016 6:10 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Vicki



Joined: 14 Aug 2012
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Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Therese

I'm fascinated that you are researching into a similar area to me albeit in a different way.

You said that you still somewhat confused but then you found the answer that I would have given you - the word "symbolism" is key. Overnight I was realising that's what I should have said in my initial reply to you. Perhaps "non precessed" is an inaccurate term. I should describe such a degree as "symbolic" of its sidereal position. I think that is clearer.

To give you the history of the example of 19 Scorpio - it was outlined by Eric Morse in "The Living Stars". He said that this was held to be the degree the Sun was at (I think it was the Sun) when a cataclysm occurred on Earth many thousands of years ago. Hence the "accursed" degree and its symbolism.

I study what might be called "astromythology" so my instinct is always to look at the mythology of the fixed stars and I look to the sidereal position of the fixed stars for an "explanation".

When I started this work I had no idea there were so many USA charts around. I used the 2.17 am with 8 Gemini 21 rising and was struck by the mutation degree of 8 Capricorn 54 which was on the equal 8th house cusp. That seemed to be very significant to me especially with what I found in the assassination charts.

I am also researching into the so called "astrologer degrees" which also seem to be symbolic. I hope to post about this in time to come.
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Fleur



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Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vicki, the charts of both Lord Louis Mountbatten and his assassination and Princess Diana and her death show your degree areas.

Princess Diana http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Diana,_Princess_of_Wales has her natal Sun in 9 degrees Cancer 39 minutes and at her death the transiting mean Moon's Node was 20 degrees Virgo 14 minutes, antiscion 9 degrees Aries 46 minutes.

Louis Mountbatten in his natal chart has Uranus 9 degrees Sagittarius 32 minutes and his Moon's North Node is 9 degrees Sagittarius 52 minutes. His Chiron is 21 degrees Sagittarius 8 minutes, antiscion 8 degrees Capricorn 52 minutes. His Moon is 10 degrees Gemini 50 minutes, which is probably a too wide orb. When he was assassinated the transiting mean Moon's Node was 8 degrees Virgo 31 minutes.
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Mountbatten,_Lord_Louis

Another interesting connection is the Brighton hotel bombing, where the British Conservative party, who were incumbent at the time, were having their annual conference in October 1984, and many leading Conservative politicians were killed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brighton_hotel_bombing
The bombs had actually been placed in September 1984. I think this was related to the very powerful Uranus Chiron opposition in 9 degrees Sagittarius Gemini.

The bomber had stayed at the hotel over the weekend 14th to 17th September 1984, when he planted the bomb. On Friday 14th September, Chiron stationed at 8 degrees Gemini 33 minutes and Uranus was 9 degrees Sagittarius 50 minutes.

I don't know if anybody has the event chart for the 1984 Brighton hotel bombing?
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Fleur



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Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe this is relevant. Spencer Perceval was the only British prime minister to have been assassinated. He was born on 1st November 1762 and was assassinated on 11th May 1812.

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Perceval,_Spencer

His natal Mars is 8 degrees Capricorn 06 minutes, and his Uranus is 10 degrees Aries 04 minutes.

His natal Phaethon is about 22 degrees Gemini, antiscion 8 degrees Cancer, and within about a week of its station, which makes it more powerful. Going back such a long time this could be one degree or so off, as I have to approximate using 77 year cycles from the ephemeris available.

At the time of his assassination Pluto was 19 degrees Pisces 12 minutes (antiscion 10 degrees Libra 48 minutes), and Saturn 7 degrees degrees Capricorn 32 minutes, retrograde.

His natal Saturn is 19 degrees Aries 47 minutes, antiscion 10 degrees Virgo 13 minutes.
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Fleur



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Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The current transits of Neptune around 9 degrees Pisces, Uranus 21 degrees Aries (antiscion 9 degrees Virgo), the Moon's Node around 9 degrees Virgo in early November and Chiron around 21 degrees Pisces.....all look significant for the degree areas Vicki is talking about, and they fall around the time of the US presidential election but don't seem to affect either Hillary Clinton's or Donald Trump's chart.
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Vicki



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Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fleur thank you for finding all these ! I must set to work myself on a few more examples.

I think we may be on to something and I have been looking at the sidereal positions of fixed stars around 8-9 degrees of any sign.

Before I list these I would just make the point that regarding the Brighton hotel bombing and the Uranus/Chiron opposition we must not forget the tropical axis of Antares/Aldebaran which as of J2000 was at 9Gemini47/9Sagittarius46. Louis Mountbatten example concerns this axis as well.


The sidereal position of the relevant fixed stars are as follows:-

Tejat 8 Gemini 25
Sheratan 7 Aries
Hamal 10Aries46
Prima Hyadum 8 Taurus 53
Hyades 9 Taurus 57
Beehive Cluster 8 Cancer 53 to 10Cancer21 (including Praesepe at 10)
Thuban 10 Leo
Zaniah 8 Virgo
Gacrux 9 Libra
Kaus Borealis 9 Sagittarius
Bos 8 Capricorn
Deneb Adige 9 Aquarius
Marfik 8 Scorpio

Some of these have a bad reputation. I don't have experience of them all but I would first of all point the finger at the Beehive Cluster :-

"exhalation of piled up corpses". I do know this star to be a death portal.
I know it to be significant for the World Wars and the May 2000 Jupiter Saturn conj (antiscion thereof).

Fleur you mentioned 9 Cancer concerning Princess Diana which would conjoin the sidereal degree of Praesepe and Spencer Perceval's Mars at 8 Capricorn opposing Praesepe.

As I mentioned in an earlier post Donald Trump has his radical Mercury at 8 Cancer 51 and the antiscion of his radical Moon opposes this almost to the minute.
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Vicki



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Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have just tried to delete a repetition of the previous post! (without success!)

Last edited by Vicki on Fri Sep 30, 2016 2:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Vicki



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Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was unable to delete this unwanted repeated post - Sorry.

Fleur thank you for finding all these ! I must set to work myself on a few more examples.

I think we may be on to something and I have been looking at the sidereal positions of fixed stars around 8-9 degrees of any sign.

Before I list these I would just make the point that regarding the Brighton hotel bombing and the Uranus/Chiron opposition we must not forget the tropical axis of Antares/Aldebaran which as of J2000 was at 9Gemini47/9Sagittarius46. Louis Mountbatten example concerns this axis as well.


The sidereal position of the relevant fixed stars are as follows:-

Tejat 8 Gemini 25
Sheratan 7 Aries
Hamal 10Aries46
Prima Hyadum 8 Taurus 53
Hyades 9 Taurus 57
Beehive Cluster 8 Cancer 53 to 10Cancer21 (including Praesepe at 10)
Thuban 10 Leo
Zaniah 8 Virgo
Gacrux 9 Libra
Kaus Borealis 9 Sagittarius
Bos 8 Capricorn
Deneb Adige 9 Aquarius
Marfik 8 Scorpio

Some of these have a bad reputation. I don't have experience of them all but I would first of all point the finger at the Beehive Cluster :-

"exhalation of piled up corpses". I do know this star to be a death portal.
I know it to be significant for the World Wars and the May 2000 Jupiter Saturn conj (antiscion thereof).

Fleur you mentioned 9 Cancer concerning Princess Diana which would conjoin the sidereal degree of Praesepe and Spencer Perceval's Mars at 8 Capricorn opposing Praesepe.

As I mentioned in an earlier post Donald Trump has his radical Mercury at 8 Cancer 51 and the antiscion of his radical Moon opposes this almost to the minute.
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