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Welcome back Jupiter, as The Morning Star till Spring 2018?

 
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Rocko



Joined: 05 Apr 2013
Posts: 737

Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 8:03 am    Post subject: Welcome back Jupiter, as The Morning Star till Spring 2018? Reply with quote

Hi Folks,

Can anybody add any meat to whether Jupiter as The Morning Star is acting as a strong benefactor ?

Doing my top down analysis I am expecting geopolitical situations to deteriorate but they seem to be holding the line.

Jupiter is Oriental so that is positive and I also think that as Libra is rising at dawn we are having the most balanced view generally as possible.

I think that'll change when the Sun enters Scorpio next week and changes the focus.

?

H


Last edited by Rocko on Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:07 pm; edited 3 times in total
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi rocko,

this is an interesting question in so far as the question of planetary phase of planets and how relevant that is to the overall chart. jupiter for the moment is rising before the sun - so it is occidental... jupiter, and saturn are considered stronger rising in a diurnal chart,, which is another bonus for jupiter here.

not that many folks focus on planetary strength thanks to the planets relationship to the sun, so far as i can tell. i can't remember who it was who came up with the idea that the planet rising before the sun was a vocational indicator, but that would be another example of the importance of a planet rising before the sun in any chart.. at present this is mercury, not jupiter.. might have been jupiter a few weeks ago - i wasn't watching..

venus and saturn are strong by planetary phase too as i understand it here, although saturn is out of sect, while venus is of the sect - rising occidental to the sun and stronger when the sun is below the horizon.. saturn on the other hand is strong by phase, but out of sect in a diurnal and nocturnal chart at present.. that won't change til the sun moves beyond saturns degree in sag.. venus ingress into sag here today, or last night too! maybe that is helped by jupiter as well..

personally i think things are falling apart on an international level geo-politically.. but i think mine is another subjective view on all this and i mostly fall back to the fall 2016 eclipse data to support my position here astrologically.
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Rocko



Joined: 05 Apr 2013
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Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi James,

Much of my Astrology has been learnt by observation. Years and Years. Watching. Thinking. Listening.

Currently I get the feel something is holding mundane bad things back. I think that'll change when the Sun and then Mercury move into Scorpio, and when Mercury fully combusts. 27th Oct.

Also Mars crashes into r.Uranus square on the 28th Oct.

Perhaps we'll move from reasonably balanced Libra into afflicted Scorpio over the weekend. Mars square r.Uranus.

Coming back to Jupiter ? When would we say that it is no longer Rising? It is just about to leave the combust phase. Is that the same ?

Anyway my feeling is that Jupiter has just about had its reign as lead planet.

Any more facts about quantify this are most welcome.

H
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rocko wrote:


Coming back to Jupiter ? When would we say that it is no longer Rising? It is just about to leave the combust phase. Is that the same ?

Anyway my feeling is that Jupiter has just about had its reign as lead planet.

Any more facts about quantify this are most welcome.

H


hi rocko,

these are just theories bounced around and sometimes applied to horary which is a different avenue of astrology all together..

going on memory here - my own thoughts on combust is that it only lasts for something like 7 degrees, but i see according to this page at skyscript
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/gl/combust.html
- it runs up to 17 degrees according to william lilly - a horary astrologer..

my impression is that a planet having pasted beyond the sun, and rising before it - is very strong.. this doesn't jive with horary's assessment of it fwiw.. i am mostly thinking planetary phase here - any planet ahead of the sun up to somewhere like 80 degrees or so is still quite strong in its ability to express itself.. once it gets towards 120 ahead of the sun, it goes retrograde and is considered a weakened position in trad astro.. not sure what the indian astrologers think of that though..

i think jupiter is still strong here, especially while the sun remains in libra.. it might change some based on the sun changing into scorpio as you note.

these ideas - planetary phase, combust, cazzimi and etc. etc. - all have to be interwoven somehow in a way that makes sense to an astrologer.. my main thing is pointing out how horary rules don't apply in mundane astrology, so really we are looking at planetary phase here and what it might mean in terms of which planets are having a stronger say in the present sense..
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Rocko



Joined: 05 Apr 2013
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Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

James,

Thanks again. Planetary phase is NOT one I've heard about.

I always wonder about Horary and Mundane.

My feeling is that Jupiter is breaking free from the Sun just now but may actually then loose power. It may have run its course so as to speak. The Sun would force it to over express itself.

Also the Sun's sign change I think does change things. Talking rulerships and the likes.

Anyway thanks.

H

PS I think r.Neptune's inconjunction to Jupiter is dangerous too. Those two loons dancing to a cwazy toon.
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margherita



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Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

james_m wrote:
hi rocko,

i can't remember who it was who came up with the idea that the planet rising before the sun was a vocational indicator, but that would be another example of the importance of a planet rising before the sun in any chart..


Ptolemy, but only for Mercury, Venus and Mars.

margherita
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james_m



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Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for the reminder on that margherita..

i think it was a modern astro idea to extend it to all the planets and if memory serves it was a couple saker and atkins or some duo name like that, who were pushing the idea back in the 1960's or whenever..

trying to find the source for this, i found this

"VOCATIONAL INDICATORS

In his book, How And Why, Mark Edmund Jones stated that the planets rising before the Sun have an influence on an individual’s career. He calls these vocational indicators. We tested it out and the ‘gators research found that to be true. Again, using our AIR Software's Astro-Investigator software we found that the charts of teachers, the planet Mercury rising before the Sun was extremely significant. With artists, as you might guess, we found that the planet Venus was rising before the Sun and for the managers, Saturn was rising before the Sun. All of these groups had a very high chi-square in the R test. That’s one technique that proves to be true. God Bless Mark Edmund Jones for that."
from http://www.astroinvestigators.com/research-overview.htm
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Rocko



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Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure I'll be infuriating the puriests but I feel Jupiter as The Morning Stars is beginning to loose power.

I feel after the 17° combustion is past the over exertion of the planet, Jupiter in this case, is past.

I feel Hilary rode this wave, and I would be too surprised if she collapsed just as Jupiter was exact conjunction or combust the Moon about 25 days ago.

She recently stated that she was done with Trump, or that the battle was over. This fits my theory.

But I'm still interested to know technically who long a Morning Stars is active.

Jupiter looks like he'll be rising for many months now and that fits again with Hillary NOT being inaugurated till January.

Hillary - Jupiter / Libra v Trump- r.Uranus /Aries. Fits well and we can see a harmonious energy around.

However, they still have to reach an exact opposition.

Works for me.

H
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Mark
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Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

James_M wrote:
Quote:
"VOCATIONAL INDICATORS

In his book, How And Why, Mark Edmund Jones stated that the planets rising before the Sun have an influence on an individual’s career. He calls these vocational indicators. We tested it out and the ‘gators research found that to be true. Again, using our AIR Software's Astro-Investigator software we found that the charts of teachers, the planet Mercury rising before the Sun was extremely significant. With artists, as you might guess, we found that the planet Venus was rising before the Sun and for the managers, Saturn was rising before the Sun. All of these groups had a very high chi-square in the R test. That’s one technique that proves to be true. God Bless Mark Edmund Jones for that."
from http://www.astroinvestigators.com/research-overview.htm


I dont want to drag this thread into just nativities but just to state that Ken Gillman wrote a book called ''One After Another'' in 2009 which considerably developed this idea of rising planets indicating life destiny. Although Gillman's approach differs from both Ptolemy and Marc Edmund Jones. Gillman focuses on particular planets rising in diurnal order to the ASC as time lords for periods of life. Gillman also claims great success for this technique as a rectification method. Our very own Tom Callanan reviewed the book quite favourably.

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/rev_gillman.html

Mark
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Rocko



Joined: 05 Apr 2013
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Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PS Just trying to get at the parameters of a Morning Star.

My feeling is that it is at maximum force shortly after the conjunction.

Or perhaps as the conjunction ends or at the 17° when the combustion is said to end.

After that I feel it weakens but is still a theme.

Some say that Jupiter as a Morning Star foretell of a new regime.

But above all I'm trying to learn of what really defines a Morning Star ?
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Rocko



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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So Hi.

I do this very high level top down analysis, rolling, and soon to weave in Eclipses and Eclipse reactivations.

It helps me understand Economic and Political changes on Earth. I'm reasonably good at it but sometimes I get Ambiguous situations or Unknowable ones.

That's the hardest being able to say I DO NOT KNOW!

Especially problematic are when several planets are making aspects.

Recently we've had Jupiter rising at Dawn, in a sextile with Saturn, while Saturn has been combust. r.Uranus opposes Jupiter and trines the Sun and Saturn.

The Capitalist World has been Euphoric which I put down to Saturn's combustion. The Cats have gotten out of their Bags.

But ...... Duh Duh .... Tomorrow afternoon UKT, 10th Dec 2016, Saturn begins to reappear from under the Sun.

Also in doing so from Sunday she rises at Dawn. I think the Jupiter sextile will allow her to repower quickly.

I think the Euphoria may begin to ebb and a more Sober feeling appear.

THERE HAS TO BE A SHIFT IN MOOD over the coming days and weeks.

But that's about what I know as to The Morning Star.

H
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Rocko



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Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Over the weekend, 7th - 8th Jan 2017, Pluto passes thru the Sun and then begins to rise as The Morning Star, all be it invisibly.

I wouldn't think that was too good a thing.

Perhaps The Republican Party is about to show its Hand !!

The reality of Trump is upon us ?

"So Heh can you see .... "

H
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Rocko



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Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So today is Saturday the 11th Feb 2017 and the Sun is approaching r.Jupiter in trine around 23° Libra.

I feel that Jupiter, for what ever reason, has allowed a certain degree of harmony and balance during what are relatively cwazy times in the World.

I've tried to understand if this is to do with Jupiter as a Morning Star ? I haven't got much further. Maybe Jupiter is a Morning Star for about 1/3rd of each year ?

We will see now if there is a noticeable deterioration on the good mood now that I feel we are in to the last throes of Jupiter's effect.

H
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Rocko



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Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I raised this topic obviously I feel planets Rising have an pronounced effect on the general situation.

I feel that Jupiter is helping to snuff out Scorpio's fearfulness.

Eventually I found the table I've been looking for. Lilley's table of dignities etc.

He gives Jupiter +2 when it is Rising (in the East) as in Occidental. Also in the case of Scorpio, Jupiter will get a further +3 when it is in it's term, 2nd term of Scorpio.

So as I suspected Jupiter is currently in a powerful position.

That's fine but then table contradicts my own feeling, and others, that when Mercury or Venus are Rising (in the East), or occidental they are given -VE scores.

H
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james_m



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Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

regarding your last comment rocko - it might have something to do with nocturnal planets, verses diurnal planets.. venus is associated with the night and i believe it is considered more beneficial setting then rising, especially in a nocturnal chart... mercury can go both ways and in a diurnal chart is considered more effective rising before the sun, while in a nocturnal chart it is the reverse... now, i am not sure how much lillys numbers were based around some of this, but i suspect some if not more..

hey mark!!! - just seeing that post you made on the ken gillman book now! thanks for sharing that..
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