skyscript.co.uk
   

home articles forum events
glossary horary quiz consultations links more

Read this before using the forum
Register
FAQ
Search
View memberlist
View/edit your user profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Recent additions:
Can assassinations be prevented? by Elsbeth Ebertin
translated by Jenn Zahrt PhD
A Guide to Interpreting The Great American Eclipse
by Wade Caves
The Astrology of Depression
by Judith Hill
Understanding the mean conjunctions of the Jupiter-Saturn cycle
by Benjamin Dykes
Understanding the zodiac: and why there really ARE 12 signs of the zodiac, not 13
by Deborah Houlding

Skyscript Astrology Forum

Mount Thera Volcano 1610BC

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Mundane Astrology & World Events
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Fleur



Joined: 05 Feb 2014
Posts: 617

Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:17 pm    Post subject: Mount Thera Volcano 1610BC Reply with quote

I have been tentatively looking at the astrology of the outer planets around this time, just because there are not so many massive, human race changing volcanos in the past 1000 years other than Mount Samalas with a VE index of 7 in 1257.

I don't at this stage want to get involved in unnecessarily picky arguments about exact times, as I struggle with this and the various calendars and conventions for expressing time. Otherwise I couldn't look at this at all, and it is too intriguing to miss. Simple expanations of calendar conventions welcome.

Mount Thera was a VE 7 volcano of 1610 BC, that was the strongest explosion ever witnessed and destroyed Minoan civilisation. I was following Vicki's work on outer planet conjunctions and looking at the Astrodienst ephemeris, where I found for 1st January 1607 BC (-1606) greg (sic) that IsisTranspluto was 29 degrees Pisces 38 minutes, Pluto was 13 degrees Pisces 14 minutes, Neptune 24 degrees Capricorn 40 minutes and Uranus 23 degrees Capricorn 44 minutes.

I got tired trying to narrow down the orb of the Neptune Uranus conjunction, but it looks to fall about 24 degrees Capricorn.

My guess is that this might relate to a much bigger outer planet conjunction further back in time? My other big question was, how accurately have scientists timed the exact year of the Mount Thera explosion, seems it was massive within a fraction of a second when it went off. When the scientists say 1610 BC, could they be that close, and could it have been a few years later, ie 1607 BC (-1606) greg (whatever Astrodienst meant by that?)? Edit: found the answer, "Eruption dating
Despite the evidence, the exact date of the eruption has been difficult to determine.
" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minoan_eruption "Radiocarbon dates, including analysis of an olive branch buried beneath a lava flow from the volcano that gave a date between 1627 BCE and 1600 BCE"


The 1257 Mount Samalas eruption was only discovered in the 1980's, and I and probably most people have never heard of it before, if I hadn't been searching for a big outer planet conjunction I wouldn't have been able to find it by google. Which made me wonder, how many other huge volcanic eruptions have there been in relatively recent history that scientists don't know about? Was there one around 361 AD which caused the incursions into Roman Empire territory by vast numbers of unconnected little tribes from all directions, which sounds as though it was caused by a famine? Was there a volcanic eruption which caused the fall of the Roman Empire by forcing people to leave their own lands and attack it?
Wikipedia says "Relevant dates....irreversible major territorial loss, however, began in 376 with a large-scale irruption of Goths and others."
If there was a massive volcanic eruption at this time, would the scientists know about it by now?

I wonder if that Uranus Neptune conjunction in Capricorn was a significant factor for Mount Thera going off?

I am finding studying this means a huge amount to learn, as I know very little about climatology and had to look up the difference and connection between volcanoes and earthquakes, and I have to concentrate to half understand the science. Then there is the sheer complexity of history, and I just read that "the period 1250 to 1300 was heavily disturbed by volcanic activity, and these volcanic disturbances along with positive feedback effects may have started the Little Ice Age, even without the need for changes in solar radiation" (Wikipedia).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1257_Samalas_eruption
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Vicki



Joined: 14 Aug 2012
Posts: 182
Location: Nottingham U.K.

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fleur you have undertaken a momentous task! The problem with that Thera volcanic eruption is of course the date. There is much disagreement on this. 1607 BC? 1628 BC? Iíve even seen 1400 BC cited !

Iím not sure how causative a major outer planet conjunction could be. However that Uranus/Neptune conjunction of 1607 BC was at 26 Capricorn 34 on 8th March.
Mars was conjunct at 24 Capricorn 43. Mars is on the star Achernar alpha Eridanus. Aratus called Eridanus Ďthe river of many tearsĒ .

Uranus/Neptune cycles every 170 years.

With a date in doubt though I donít whether this conjunction is relevant.

The Neptune/Pluto conjunction of 2064 BC would govern this period ( a nearly 500 year cycle). It took place at 11 Aries 30 on the Hyades Ėnot good. This conjunction fell very close to the beginning of the Age of Aries.

I have found a Saturn/Pluto conjunction on 11th March 1627 BC.
This was at 24Aquarius34.

Other relevant conjunctions :-

Saturn/Jupiter

4th May 1655 BC 18 Pisces 35
6th November 1635 BC at 23 Scorpio 08 with Neptune at 26 Scorpio 02
5th October 1615 BC at 14 Leo 44 (Mutation into fire).

I will try to find the relevant Uranus/Pluto conjunction. Cycle every 110-130 years.

Otherwise this may be helpful :-

Diana Rosenberg cites the late Ann E. Parkerís research which showed that major disasters occurred in areas where Mars and Pluto were angular on ingresses, eclipses and/or lunations.
This would be fine for the more recent eruptions but unlikely to be much use for the Thera eruption with a date in doubt.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Fleur



Joined: 05 Feb 2014
Posts: 617

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am finding it very difficult. The calendars are confusing and having to always remember that bigger numbers BC were further back in time.

I have narrowed down a conjunction between IsisTranspluto and Neptune to somewhere near 1st January 2014 BC (-2013) greg (sic). I am going to have to puzzle over what Astrodienst mean by that calendar expression.

IsisTranspluto on this date was 2 degrees Leo 10 minutes and 58 seconds, retrograde. Neptune was 2 degrees 52 minutes and 08 seconds retrograde.

So it looks to be roughly 2.5 degrees Leo, around 2014 BC.

These conjunctions between IsisTranspluto and Neptune happen roughly, just under, every thousand years. There was one on 10th January 361 AD at 29 degrees Capricorn, one on 18th July 1257 AD at 23 degrees Cancer, and one in 1908/9 about 17 degrees Cancer.

I found another IsisTranspluto Neptune conjunction close to 1st January 512 BC (-511) greg (sic - I don't really understand what this calendar means yet). IsisTranspluto on this date is 3 degrees Libra 46 minutes retrograde and Neptune is 4 degrees Libra 52 minutes direct.

I found another IsisTranspluto Neptune conjunction around 1st January 1166 BC (-1165) greg. With IsisTranspluto on this date at 6 degrees Libra 29 minutes 45 seconds direct, and Neptune 6 degrees Libra 57 minutes 52 seconds direct.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Fleur



Joined: 05 Feb 2014
Posts: 617

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vicki wrote:
Fleur you have undertaken a momentous task! The problem with that Thera volcanic eruption is of course the date. There is much disagreement on this. 1607 BC? 1628 BC? Iíve even seen 1400 BC cited !

Iím not sure how causative a major outer planet conjunction could be. However that Uranus/Neptune conjunction of 1607 BC was at 26 Capricorn 34 on 8th March.
Mars was conjunct at 24 Capricorn 43. Mars is on the star Achernar alpha Eridanus. Aratus called Eridanus Ďthe river of many tearsĒ .

Uranus/Neptune cycles every 170 years.

With a date in doubt though I donít whether this conjunction is relevant.

The Neptune/Pluto conjunction of 2064 BC would govern this period ( a nearly 500 year cycle). It took place at 11 Aries 30 on the Hyades Ėnot good. This conjunction fell very close to the beginning of the Age of Aries.

I have found a Saturn/Pluto conjunction on 11th March 1627 BC.
This was at 24Aquarius34.

Other relevant conjunctions :-

Saturn/Jupiter

4th May 1655 BC 18 Pisces 35
6th November 1635 BC at 23 Scorpio 08 with Neptune at 26 Scorpio 02
5th October 1615 BC at 14 Leo 44 (Mutation into fire).

I will try to find the relevant Uranus/Pluto conjunction. Cycle every 110-130 years.

Otherwise this may be helpful :-

Diana Rosenberg cites the late Ann E. Parkerís research which showed that major disasters occurred in areas where Mars and Pluto were angular on ingresses, eclipses and/or lunations.
This would be fine for the more recent eruptions but unlikely to be much use for the Thera eruption with a date in doubt.


I suspect that these conjunctions link up. The Uranus Neptune conjunctions might not be frequent enough to account for volcanic eruptions that are powerful enough to cause effects on the stratosphere which change weather patterns enough to affect human history. Any volcanic eruption with a VE index of 7 or more is extremely rare, and there was only Mount Samalas in the past thousand years.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Fleur



Joined: 05 Feb 2014
Posts: 617

Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was looking at the planetary alignments and history of the decline of the Indus Valley civilisation around 1800 BC.

I suspect it is connected with volcanic eruptions and the major outer planet conjunctions, very likely involving Neptune. The Neptune IsisTranspluto conjunction of 2014 BC at about 2.5 degrees Leo is top of my suspects, but others are likely involved.

This was believed to be ultimately due to climate change which led to disease, leprosy and tuberculosis, interpersonal violence, and invasion of Aryan tribes. But what I found fascinating is this web page

http://archaeologyonline.net/artifacts/aryan-harappan-myth

where the author says that the drought which "ended the great civilisation not only in India but over a vast belt that included Mesopotamia, Egypt and the Aegean........may have been triggered by massive volcanic eruptions"

I also found a conjunction of IsisTranspluto and Uranus around 21 degrees Libra around 1st January 1798 BC (-1797) Jul. This may only be an ancillary factor. I think it is the big ones that end and change civilisations.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Vicki



Joined: 14 Aug 2012
Posts: 182
Location: Nottingham U.K.

Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for posting this Fleur - very interesting.

That IsisTranspluto conj of 2014 BC fell on Labrum ! This is the Delta star of the constellation Crater. According to Diana Rosenberg, research shows that a high number of major volcanic eruptions had planets aligned with the stars of Crater. To find this major conj placed on Labrum very clearly symbolises what may have ended that civilisation

The Neptune/Pluto conj of 2064 BC on Hyades would also be significant in this regard. The Hyades is associated with storms and tempests traditionally.

The previous conj in 2560 BC was on Prima Hyadum so this may also indicate huge earth changes occurring at that time, approaching the beginning of the Age of Aries.

Also at the beginning of the Age of Aries 2108 BC the star Algol would have been on the Great Year asc. indicating great suffering for mankind at that time.

Out of interest, the next time a Neptune/Pluto conj occurs on the Hyades will be in 2384 AD.
The Age of Aquarius will have begun some 150 years earlier and is approximately 12000 years from the beginning of the Age of Leo when there may have been a major cataclysm on Earth so the Asc/Dsc of the Great year clock will be the opposite way round.
I have done some research into this but I won't clutter the thread with this.
Suffice to say there is danger indicated of something similar happening on Earth 150-200 years from now.
Scientists have identified an asteroid which may collide with Earth at the end of the 21st century.

Fleur, for your interest I searched for IsisTranspluto/Neptune conjs at that time and found the following:-

6th Jan 2106 00Libra30 approx.

21st Nov 2302 AD 9 Sag 55 close to Graffias. There may have been more than one conj during this time. They came very close at 10 Sag in May of that year.

Also two oppositions as follows :-

11th April 2203 AD Neptune 1 Taurus 07 TPluto 1 Scorpio 08

1st Nov 2417 AD Neptune 26 Leo 12 TPluto 26 Aqu 11

Also I have been very interested in the discovery since the millennium of dwarf planets in the Kuiper Belt. There might well be greater cycles which are indicated by these planets. I'm not talking so much Eris, Haumea etc. because their orbital periods are similar to Pluto's.
However I think of Sedna which has an orbital period of anything between 12000 - 25000 years depending on who you read ! If there are other planets out there with similarly long orbital periods then maybe cycles between these planets which would occur only every few thousand years would symbolise far longer periods of human civilisation than the Neptune/Pluto cycle of 495 years.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Fleur



Joined: 05 Feb 2014
Posts: 617

Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vicki, I am just beginning to get to grips with the fixed stars. I just found that it is very easy to find them in any chart done on the Astrodienst charting facility. I just tried for 1st January 79 AD jul which was the year Vesuvius destroyed Naples and surrounding areas, and Labrum was 0 degrees Virgo 9 minutes. I think the conjunction that Vesuvius refers to is the IsisTranspluto Neptune conjunction of 512 BC (-511)greg at about 4 degrees Libra, when Labrum was 22 degrees Leo, as during the year 79 AD Pluto was 22 degrees Aquarius and Neptune was 8 degrees Taurus (antiscion 22 degrees Leo). So I think I am learning not to ignore the fixed stars.

And yes, you are right, it is stunning, on 1st January 2015 BC (-2014)jul Labrum was 1 degree Leo 29 minutes and IsisTranspluto was 1 degree Leo 59 minutes and Neptune was 1 degree Leo 01 minute. I suspect that both the ending of the Indus Valley civilisation and the Thera volcano somehow connect with this Neptune IsisTranspluto conjunction, though I need to find out exactly how.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Mundane Astrology & World Events All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
. Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

       
Contact Deborah Houlding  | terms and conditions  
All rights on all text and images reserved. Reproduction by any means is not permitted without the express
agreement of Deborah Houlding or in the case of articles by guest astrologers, the copyright owner indictated