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gilded cage / trump presidency
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zoidsoft



Joined: 10 Feb 2006
Posts: 944
Location: Pulaski, NY

Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If one is being accurate, then one should have predicted a very close race. Because of this I had a great deal of uncertainty of who would actually come out on top, but I predicted Clinton by a narrow margin with "great uncertainty". As time grew closer to the election I personally felt more confident of a Clinton win, but I think this was me listening too much to the polls and not looking at the charts. When I made my prediction around the time of the "Birdie Sanders" phenomenon, I was a lot less certain. But Clinton won the popular vote and Trump the electoral college, so just what is it that we're measuring here?

I would think that if one is predicting a very close race, that one cannot possibly be certain of who will come out on top. Yet I see so many saying congratulations for getting it right? If it's close then it's possibly an accident by chance. I know of no astrological technique that could have predicted one winning the electoral college and the other the popular vote.

Now looking in hindsight, I have to place greater emphasis on the malefics in Clinton's 10th house (topically). In a 10th house profection year that became activated, assuming the birth time of around 8 am is correct (which I tend to still think is right). The ZR was also peaking. And clearly I think she peaked in career at this time, but could the malefics have been considered an indicator of defeat? How many more techniques would need to be considered? Too many unless you are a (G)od.

As I said on FB, I think we might be comparing apples and oranges when we use ZR to guess who will win an election. In other words, can we say that Clinton's more angular periods would trump Trump's more cadent periods? I think that analysis is at the wrong level because nativities are more personal than the election which is much more broad. Even though Clinton and Trump were the main candidates, the election really was much bigger than them and the charts we should be using should represent the mood of the people in some way which neither of these nativities could do from their ivy towers. It would be nice if we had a chart similar to the heliacal rising of Sirius to act as the chart of the world, then compare the nativities to this chart (as Valens said with the lords of the year, month, day and hour). Lacking that, there are still several other mundane techniques...
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
Posts: 1140
Location: California, USA

Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Waybread wrote:
Quote:
Maybe we can move forward to the event chart of the Electoral College, which meets on December 19.
(...)
The Electoral College does not meet as a national body but does physically meet by state in their state capitol.

I've not had much luck ascertaining a start time for the process, but maybe some of you East Coast folks know when your state electors will convene.

If we're looking for a key date, that would be January 6, 2017 when Congress meets in joint session to count the electoral votes, unless a law is passed to change the date. This would be the date to check transits to Donald Trump's chart, or transits for Hillary Clinton for the "I'm not letting go" hopefuls.
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waybread



Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 883
Location: Canada

Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, no doubt, Mark.

But for anyone who doesn't understand how the American electoral system works, it isn't actually a direct popular vote. If it were, Clinton would be president-elect. Some of the Founding Fathers were concerned about a kind of mob rule shifting the country into a harmful direction, and so implemented one of several checks and balances with the election process.

Astrologically, if the date and time of an event is so important then we do have something riding on which date and time are significant.

Curtis wrote:

Quote:
I know of no astrological technique that could have predicted one winning the electoral college and the other the popular vote.


I don't, either.
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 2684
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

theresa,

some of us are curious about whether this is one of those george soros funded colour revolutions brought to the usa?
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/11/soros-funded-orgs-behind-violent-anti-trump-protests-across-america/

waybread,

why is there interest in changing or altering the electoral college at this point? it sure appears partisan! i agree with mark's comments to you. here is an interesting article on some of the history behind it.. not sure if it is true.
http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/12/13598316/donald-trump-electoral-college-slavery-akhil-reed-amar

curtis,

i mentioned i thought the election was going to be close.. in fact, i recall mark asking me if i had changed my mind! regardless of our personal positions on all of this, i think one can get an astrological sense of whether someone is going to win something or not.. this goes against toms perspective, but i think ellen in her comments back in january was very specific in explaining the astrology as to why she thought trump would win.. it is true she didn't appear burdened with a consideration of hillarys chart, or over what hillarys birth time was - like many of the rest of us, but still gave a very clear prediction on the outcome and why she felt the astro pointed to trump winning.. either we can see a person ascending to a position of high office thru the personal charts, or we can't.. i continue to believe we can! this means i don't share toms view on it, but i do respect an alternative view to how i see it..

as for picking up on the mood or zeitgeist of the time here, i think the aries ingress for 2016 set to washington does a pretty good job myself!

as for using ZR as a tecnique, i can't comment, as i am not using it. i saw a few things pointing to a positive outcome for trump..one example - transiting midpoint of jupiter/pluto on november 8th was at 29 scorpio 02.. this is a slow moving midpoint and continues to square onto trumps ascendant degree.. he is still inside this, and was going into the election.. at any rate i dismissed some of the signals i was picking up and got caught up in all the external feedback.. i honestly think it coloured my astrology.. i was in favour of trump winning, but i still feel my astrology was skewed for outside reasons.. this isn't the first time it has happened to me, and i am sure it won't be the last.. i wish i could say differently, but i can't.

the unconfirmed time for hillary hasn't helped here either..

back to trumps inauguration and presidency.. i have yet to look at the aries ingress chart for 2017, but am very curious now.. i see neptune is smack on the ascendant to washington dc for 2017, with the moon in a very close conjunction to saturn.. the ascendant ruler is retro in the 8th house. here is a chart for others to see..

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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
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Location: California, USA

Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

James wrote:
Quote:
Some of us are curious about whether this is one of those george soros funded colour revolutions brought to the usa?

I must claim complete ignorance of George Soros and anything he might be linked to. In general I pay very little attention to politics except during the once-every-four-years election period. I've lost (through death) my main political friend who kept me posted on political affairs and opinions.
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waybread



Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 883
Location: Canada

Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark, I hope you will accept a non-partisan political science lesson here. (Believe it or not, I actually did get paid to express my opinions on current events prior to my retirement, but I did try to present both sides.) The Electoral College is worth understanding, because if astrologers stay in the business of predicting the outcome of US elections and think that key event dates are important, it is worth noticing.

James, I'm familiar with the "slave state" argument, but the establishment of the Electoral College in the Constitution was also supported by northerners like Alexander Hamilton, who was enough of an elitist to mistrust the instincts of the common man.

James, I'm not the one demonstrating against Trump or signing an anti-Trump petition. You'd have to ask these people what they expect the Electoral College to do differently than certify the results of their states' winner-take-all system of balloting, and why.
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Vicki



Joined: 14 Aug 2012
Posts: 181
Location: Nottingham U.K.

Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Donald Trump is not going to die imminently, resign or become ill unless his birth time is hopelessly wrong. He could nonetheless be in danger, as I have said.

His natal chart resonates strongly with both the inauguration chart and the USA mundane chart (the 8 Gemini one).

James I only realised yesterday that there are so many speculative charts for Putin. Mine was from Astro com and 1st decan Scorpio seemed to fit him very well but I wil now discard it.

I have much to say about the fixed stars in the inauguration chart regarding that Venus square application to Saturn in the 8th, but I'm too unwell today.
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Saturnhead



Joined: 22 Jul 2013
Posts: 503

Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Using a mix of Brihat Parasara Hora Sastra & Jaimini:-

At the time of Trump's confirmed win by the press:-

Transit Moon (Public) in Pisces (Elevation/Eternity) in 7th (Public Exposure) exactly aspected Trump's Sun (Royal/Supreme) in Gemini (Truth) in 10th (Father/Power) by transit Rasi Aspect.

Easy in hindsight, but thought it should be noted.
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
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Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I donít think anyone could have predicted the huge influence a child born on June 14, 1946 could have on America and the world. Astrologers can point to the bright star Regulus on the ascendant, helped along by Rahu (linked to movements and events that affect large numbers of people) with the Sun along with Uranus in the birth chart. Another potent configuration is that both Jupiter and Uranus cross over to the natal ascendant from navamsa Leo. This acts like a potent Ascendant-Jupiter-Uranus-Mars conjunction.

The Trump name is such a draw that it has been sold to marketers all over the world. A business, hotel or restaurant with ďTrumpĒ in the name is all it takes for publicity drawing customers, even though Donald Trump himself has nothing to do with what is being marketed. (This was emphasized in recent televised Trump biographies.)

The largeness of effect isnít going away. Keeping up with current events, the USA protest movements havenít been small:

Quote:
On Saturday, 10,000 people marched in New York City. Eight thousand more marched in Los Angeles, where 200 people were arrested. Protesters also took to the streets in Philadelphia; San Francisco; Oakland; Chicago; Oklahoma City; Salt Lake City; Springfield, Massachusetts; and in Dayton and Cincinnati, Ohio. In Portland, Oregon, police attacked protesters with pepper spray and flashbang grenades and arrested 71 people....

Annette Alejandro at a protest in New York City Sunday.

http//www.democracynow.org/2016/11/14/headlines/from_coast_to_coast_anti_trump_protests_declare_not_my_president

On Sunday in Oakland, California protesters formed a human chain around the three mile perimeter of Lake Merritt.

Along with Regulus on the ascendant we are seeing the manifestation of Donald Trumpís natal power configuration: Sun-Rahu-Uranus receiving the trine of Jupiter. In India the trine is the most powerful aspect Jupiter can form with other planets. Also navamsa Sun crosses over to Jupiter, making Jupiter even more brilliant.

Iím wondering if any house system places these planets on house cusps?? They are quite a distance from the MC and zenith point, which is why I underestimated their significance. It seems that no matter what Donald Trump does, he comes out of top, even following major bankruptcies. He simply sells his name to more takers.
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Last edited by Therese Hamilton on Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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unique_astrology



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 141

Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't worry, be happy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-diB65scQU

No idea yet if the time suggests impeachment beginnings or the result of the same. I prefer it would be the latter as it could indicate that the previous year T had been kept from dealing with much else (us). If he was tied up (and I wish that would be literally) for most of 2019 it could be because of a shift in the Congress after the 2018 mid-terms.



Charts showing Donaldís and Donald Jr.ís charts engaged by the total solar eclipse in August 2017 and the Saturn and Pluto conjunction in January of 2020. It looks like a family affair.

http://imgur.com/a/UyQXj
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