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Accidental dignity
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Tom
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Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As an FYI, My understanding is that Gauquelin used the mundane positions of the planets and their relationship to the angles - not the tropical.
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom wrote:
As an FYI, My understanding is that Gauquelin used the mundane positions of the planets and their relationship to the angles - not the tropical.

Yes, Gauquelin's results did relate to planets and their relationship to angles. But all the birth data is available so that the entire chart can be calculated in any zodiac. I noticed in the on-line ADB Boxers group that some Gauquelin data and birth charts were included.
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few more notes on what appears to be the non-random placement of Mars in the charts of boxers and tennis players:

The great boxer, Mohammad Ali, has Mars in the degree of Sheratan in the constellation of Aries.

Of Mars in the charts of the 11 boxers in sidereal Taurus, 10 of those are in the first 12 degrees conjunct stars in Perseus. The single remaining position of Mars at 29 degrees conjoins 5 stars of Orion in the same degree, including Alnilam and Meissa.

Seven of the eight positions of Mars in sidereal Scorpio for tennis players were in the first 12 degrees of the sign close to stars of Lupus, the Wolf or Hercules, the Strongman.

The closest zodiacal correlation I could find with Mars using the limited data of boxers and tennis players is the proximity to bright fixed stars. There was no consistent correlation with terms, lunar mansions, navamsas, dwads or even single degrees. Where positions of Mars happened to fall close together, often the range was from the middle of a degree to the middle of a degree several degrees further in the zodiac. (Tropical astrologers may want to check the degree position of stars and planets for a possible closer correlation.)

Likewise conjunctions to fixed stars related to proximity rather than sharing a single degree. A star might be at 45 minutes of a degree and conjoin a planet (Mars in this case) at 10 minutes of the following degree.

It seems that stars may have specific energies which may manifest as various talents in birth charts. We know that Ptolemy gave planetary correlations to the various stars in the sky. For example, Sheratan, the degree of Muhammad Aliís Mars, was said to act like Mars and Saturn.
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Tom
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Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Yes, Gauquelin's results did relate to planets and their relationship to angles. But all the birth data is available so that the entire chart can be calculated in any zodiac.


Mundane position has nothing to do with any zodiac. And as you are aware, we stick to the tropical zodiac here.
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom wrote:
Quote:
Mundane position has nothing to do with any zodiac. And as you are aware, we stick to the tropical zodiac here.

Tom, why do you always seem to be wanting to start an argument with me?? Your reactions to some of my posts have been over the top. I'm discussing stars which are used in any zodiac. Skyscript isn't the place to be nasty to female posters. In the past Deb has said that discussions may include sidereal commentary. I have merely used that zodiac to locate stars. You are most welcome to place those same stars in the tropical zodiac. That is why I offered the ADB data files, which a fellow Skyscript member has already requested.
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Tom
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Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I rarely, if ever respond to your posts, - only when you try to get cute.

Quote:
I'm discussing stars which are used in any zodiac.


Really? What's this:

Quote:
Of Mars in the charts of the 11 boxers in sidereal Taurus, 10 of those are in the first 12 degrees conjunct stars in Perseus. The single remaining position of Mars at 29 degrees conjoins 5 stars of Orion in the same degree, including Alnilam and Meissa.
Seven of the eight positions of Mars in sidereal Scorpio for tennis players were in the first 12 degrees of the sign close to stars of Lupus, the Wolf or Hercules, the Strongman. ...


The references to the sidereal zodiac were, according to you, unnecessary as they apply to any zodiac. Yet you chose to make them. The purpose in sticking to one zodiac is to prevent the confusion of using different signs to represent the same place. We both know this as we've been over it before many times. Apparently you need to be reminded from time to time.

Quote:
You are most welcome to place those same stars in the tropical zodiac



Thank you for your generosity.

It's obvious to me what you're doing. So I thought a gentle reminder was in order. Rather than simply deleting your post. That's still an option.
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two or three other posters on this topic mentioned the sidereal zodiac before I did. I have no idea how to place stars in the tropical zodiac, and my star list is of course sidereal. I didn't expect any correlation with Mars and the stars. That was a complete surprise.

I tried as much as possible to mention the constellations of the stars rather than the zodiac since the constellations aren't tropical or sidereal. They're simply star patterns in the sky. I've always been fascinated with the stars and constellations, and am going to try to replicate the small ADB groups for boxers and tennis players. I'd like to use the Gauquelin data. If I can manage a replication, I'll post the results on the sidereal part of Skyscript.
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Tom
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Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since we have a sidereal Forum, I think it best to lock this topic. I would move the thread over there, if I could.
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