skyscript.co.uk
   

home articles forum events
glossary horary quiz consultations links more

Read this before using the forum
Register
FAQ
Search
View memberlist
View/edit your user profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Recent additions:
Can assassinations be prevented? by Elsbeth Ebertin
translated by Jenn Zahrt PhD
A Guide to Interpreting The Great American Eclipse
by Wade Caves
The Astrology of Depression
by Judith Hill
Understanding the mean conjunctions of the Jupiter-Saturn cycle
by Benjamin Dykes
Understanding the zodiac: and why there really ARE 12 signs of the zodiac, not 13
by Deborah Houlding

Skyscript Astrology Forum

Astrological Puzzle

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Nativities & General Astrology
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Yair Alon



Joined: 16 Jul 2014
Posts: 93

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:04 am    Post subject: Astrological Puzzle Reply with quote

Hello, everyone!

I think I will ask a very dumb question, but even under that risk I will do so because Iím failing to see an explanation.

The question is what is the logic for this text of an astrologer I found in the internet:

"Mars will be in Pisces from Dec 19th to Jan 28th. So these are its influences by transits for natal charts: if you have Saturn or Mars in Aries you may suffer with enemies, Mercury in Taurus problems with friends, Sun in Gemini competition in your career, Venus in Can disappointment or lost of faith, Saturn in Leo be careful with debts and accidents, Mars in Virgo problems within the marriage, Mars in Libra medical procedures, Jupiter in Scorpio problem with the children, but good for sports, Sun and Moon in Sag avoid conflicts with family, Sat in Sag home renewal, Mars in Cap problems with brothers, Merc in Cap problems with travels, Jup in Aqu spending too much money, Ven in Aqu interest in exotic cuisine, Moon in Pisc anger, Sun in Pisces fever and infections".

It is clear that he is going by houses (12 - enemies, 11 - friends, 10 - career) and relating that to Mars and its effects. But I am failing to see why the relationship between the houses and the signs. Why Saturn in Aries with Mars in Pisces is a problem with enemies? I am missing the connection here. Thought about the semi-sextile, ok, but so what? Why the 12th? The same goes to all the others. The only one I could understand was "if you gave Sun in Pisces you may have fever or infection".

And since Iím asking this, and already taking the oportunity, is there a good "technique" to make this kind of general predictions that you may share? For example, how to make a general forecast for different signs or charts points (not the Sun) and aspects when Mars goes into Aries or Saturn enters Capricorn?

BEST
_________________
Yair Alon
Kabbalist
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 2790
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi yair,

it is an interesting question, so thanks for asking it!

thank you for the update on the previous thread too, which i never got back to.

all of astrology is symbolical.. i suppose a person can come up with a lot of ways to symbolize something, like this person seems to have done. basically it seems to me they have taken the concept of standard house descriptions and overlapped them onto planets in signs.. starting with mars, or saturn in aries is interesting.. it could have been sun, but they opted for saturn or mars in aries as a starting point.. either way you suffer from enemies - mars in the 12th kind of concept, but maybe fateful if it is saturn in aries, or more conflicted if mars in aries.. it really is a reliance on house descriptions onto planet relationships by phase..

typically this approach is taken with solar houses where the sun - regardless of what sign it is in - is the first house.. if one has sun in aries, pisces will be in the 12th house and etc. around the zodiac.. all this person has done is gotten more creative and done it with more then just the sun!

i had heard this was how the sun sign horoscopes in the newspapers was built up on - solar houses with particular attention paid to where the moon was.. obviously it can be worked up with the other astro ingredients too, but with a special emphasis on the sun and moon essentially..

i think in answer to your question in the last paragraph - sure, one can do whatever one wants with the astro symbolism.. it might not catch on or be all that relevant for many, but it might hold mass appeal for some~!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Yair Alon



Joined: 16 Jul 2014
Posts: 93

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, James!

Thank you for your time and effort. I am sorry but I still donít understand what he did. Could you see the logic in that?

He is making kind of a newspaper horoscope, as you said... But how?

If Mars is in Pisces and one person has Mars in Aries it would be a semi-sextile, right? Iím failing to see the conection to the 12th. Is he considering Pisces as the Ascendant? But then Aries would be the 2nd, not the 12th!

BEST
_________________
Yair Alon
Kabbalist
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pankajdubey



Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1215
Location: Delhi

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yair Alon wrote:
Hey, James!

Thank you for your time and effort. I am sorry but I still donít understand what he did. Could you see the logic in that?

He is making kind of a newspaper horoscope, as you said... But how?

If Mars is in Pisces and one person has Mars in Aries it would be a semi-sextile, right? Iím failing to see the conection to the 12th. Is he considering Pisces as the Ascendant? But then Aries would be the 2nd, not the 12th!

BEST


He is picking the planets for their natural signification and placing them strategically and then reading what mars(a malefic) would do in there.

Saturn- enemies, grief etc . if you place saturn in aries then Transit Mars is in 12th .Natal mercury in taurus - transit mars in 11th from Mercury - grief in from friends, Natal sun in gemini - Transit mars in 10 profession, business grief etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 2790
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks yair,

pankajdubey describes it better then me... in fact, when i saw he had commented, i immediately thought of those old robert pelletier astro books i had read! he was very into indian or what they now call vedic astrology and wrote a few books i enjoyed reading - one on derivative houses.. at any rate, i am glad pankajdubey chimed in with a better description of what they are doing..

https://www.amazon.com/Planets-Houses-Experiencing-Your-Environment/dp/0914918273
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pankajdubey



Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1215
Location: Delhi

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks James,

also, Indian concept is about transits from natal moon and additional concepto of blockage (or vedha).

http://cafejyotish.com/684-planetary-transits-and-vedhas.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Yair Alon



Joined: 16 Jul 2014
Posts: 93

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, so now I think I start to understand. So he is using a "natural" horoscope (Aries 1, Taurus 2, Gem 3) and Mars in Pisces will then be in 12 from 1st, 11 from 2nd, 10th from 3rd?

How odd! But very interesting. Never saw that before. Is this a Vedic technique, therefore?

Is it usual to do this for general horoscopes? I would like to give it a try in the future, maybe, when Saturn enters Scorpio? If I got it right this time, I would consider Saturn is in the 8th from the 1st, 7th from the 2nd, 6th from the 3rd and so on... So people with Sun in Gemini could experience Saturn in Scorpio as bringing disease and poor health, affliction to the bones and so on... Is that the gist?

Thanks pankajdubey and james!
_________________
Yair Alon
Kabbalist
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 2790
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi yair,

what you are doing with sun in gemini - saturn in scorpio - health issues etc is solar houses concept.. the sun whatever sign it is in, is considered the first house.. you can also apply it to any planet in any sign, although it will take on a different meaning. as pankajdubey pointed out, your first example was with the person using the natural signification of each house - mars for the first, mercury for the 3rd, 11th, and etc..

the concept of derivative houses is an indian concept as i understand it, but i could be wrong on this too and don't fully know the history on the use of derivative houses.. i first remember being exposed to it thru the book i gave a link to in my previous post.. good luck working with these ideas!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Yair Alon



Joined: 16 Jul 2014
Posts: 93

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

james_m wrote:
the sun whatever sign it is in, is considered the first house.. you can also apply it to any planet in any sign, although it will take on a different meaning.


If instead of the Sun in Gemini, how would I interpret Jupiter in Gemini (for Saturn in Scorpio). It will still be related to health (8th is 6th from 3rd), but what is the difference with Jupiter instead of Sun?

I saw the link you sent, and it looks very interesting. When I asked if this technique is Vedic, I didnít mean the derivative houses per se, but this way of forecasting and telling the efects of a planet for other chart points.

I mean, I think modern astrologers - or those making newspaper horoscopes - would use the transits houses to forecast. So, for example, Mars in Pisces is in the 4th house in Brazil (not at all related to the 12th), and then they would say things like: there is an opposition for people with sun in the 10th (maybe problems in carrer) or for any planets in Virgo.

BEST
_________________
Yair Alon
Kabbalist
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 2790
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi yair,

for me, i can get something from the solar house concept - making the sun in whatever sign it is in, as the first house, with the other planets placed in relation to it - but i can't make out as much using other planets, or as quickly.. i have no idea how i would view your example using jupiter in gemini, other then to say jupiter and saturn are not in a working relationship to one another so that works against the chart to a certain extent.. nothing ties the signs gemini and scorpio together via these planets jupiter and saturn either, although maybe someone can say they connect via the triplicities or something..

i go back to the simplicity of putting greater emphasis on the sun and moon and of course the ascendant if you know the birth time.. absent the birth time and an ascendant, this derivative house idea has some merit.

as for horoscopes for the masses, again it is my understanding that mostly the place of the sun, with these solar houses was used, by highlighting what the sun or moon was doing in relation to the natal sun position.. again, this has limited value, but it is still valuable in so far as the sun and moon are highlighted again, absent any knowledge of the ascendant/rising sign.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Yair Alon



Joined: 16 Jul 2014
Posts: 93

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

james_m wrote:
hi yair,

for me, i can get something from the solar house concept - making the sun in whatever sign it is in, as the first house, with the other planets placed in relation to it - but i can't make out as much using other planets, or as quickly.. i have no idea how i would view your example using jupiter in gemini



Thanks, James. I have the same difficulty that you express. But now Iím very interested in knowing how to make this other analysis besides the Sun sign. I will look for some material related to that. Maybe in Vedic sources this will be more usual.

BEST!
_________________
Yair Alon
Kabbalist
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Nativities & General Astrology All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
. Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

       
Contact Deborah Houlding  | terms and conditions  
All rights on all text and images reserved. Reproduction by any means is not permitted without the express
agreement of Deborah Houlding or in the case of articles by guest astrologers, the copyright owner indictated