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Questions related to Valens' Anthology

 
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yongsua



Joined: 19 Jan 2017
Posts: 5

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:43 am    Post subject: Questions related to Valens' Anthology Reply with quote

Hi, I am new to here. Nice to meet you. I recently just started to study or research about the Hellenistic astrological technique from Valens' Anthology. However, I have trouble understanding the "The Star Beholds the Ascendant or Lot" (Riley) or "The Star Allotted the Hour of Lot"(Schmidt).

May I know what does it mean by "Star Allotted the Hour or Lot"?

For e.g., If Saturn allotted the hour or Lot (Lot of Fortune, I guess).....

I am Pisces Ascendant. I have Saturn in Pisces in first house but retrogrades. Does it mean my Saturn allotted the Pisces? Am I generally fortunate or unfortunate due to retrogradation based on such preliminary analysis? Besides, do you consider the aspects to or from the Saturn in retrogradation?

Three more questions, I have Mercury, Sun and Venus in Leo and they seem to be in conjunction or combustion. How do you consider Mercury or Venus to be in combustion hellenistically? My Mercury is in heliacal rising after the Sunrise but my Venus is in heliacal rising before the Sunrise. What does it describe? FYI, my chart is nocturnal chart. These three planets are located at unfavorable 6th Place or House.

Two more questions, I want to know do you use Mean Time or Apparent Solar Time for Secondary Direction? In addition, do you use birth place or current place of native for predictions such as Solar Return or Profections? Last but not least, I am nocturnal native, should I refer to Lunar Return instead of Solar Return.


Last question,

http://www.astrology-x-files.com/x-files/solar-return.html

I want to ask about the technique for Monthly Profection.

The website shows:

Quote:
To find the monthly profection, you take the arc from your natal Sun to your natal Moon, then take the same arc starting with the ascendant of the solar return (as determined above by when the Moon returns to it's own degree) in zodiacal order and see where it falls out.




May I know what does it mean by "Zodiacal Order" in Hellenistic? I realized that in Hellenistic Astrology, we should analyse the chart in clockwise manner, which is totally in contrary to modern practice. So, for this "Zodiacal Order", does it fall with the context of clockwise reading? For instance, from Aries to Capricorn to Aquarius..., instead of to Aries, Taurus, Gemini....

Your reply is highly appreciated.

Thanks and Regards.
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Paul
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Joined: 23 Nov 2009
Posts: 1452

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi yongsua

Welcome to the forum. You've asked a lot of questions so let me try to just briefly reply to them all, without going into any depth.

Quote:
However, I have trouble understanding the "The Star Beholds the Ascendant or Lot" (Riley) or "The Star Allotted the Hour of Lot"(Schmidt).


Are you sure of this rendering of the section? Does Riley say "beholds" or simply "holds"? In my version it is simply holds, I'm not sure if you have some other context or area of the text in mind.

To behold something typically means to witness it or see with some sense of attention applied to what is seen. In modern terms we just say that the planets are in aspect. So were I to say that Mars beholds the ascendant, it would mean that Mars is in aspect to the ascendant.

However that is not the meaning that is implied in this section of Valens' text. If you're someone who owns a piece of land, perhaps to grow vegetables or flowers on, you may be said to own an allotment. This area of land belongs to you, you imagine me saying that this allotment is allotted to you. This closer to the kind of thing valens means here, and in this way of looking at it what he means is to refer to a condition where a planet is allotted the Ascendant, that is to say, owns or rules the allotment of the zodiac which ascends. In modern temrs we would simply say "if the planet rules the ascendant". So if Aries is rising, Aries is ruled/allotted to Mars. So Mars holds the allotment.

Quote:
How do you consider Mercury or Venus to be in combustion hellenistically?


The really truthful answer is that it all depends. Combustion has a sense of renewal, purgation and cleansing whilst at the same time stripping those planets which are combust of their power to signify. It is like a holy or divine experience, the Sun moves over degrees of the zodiac, as well as the planets found there, and cleanses them, and makes them new again. In the process the planet is stripped of itself and in a sense reborn. Whilst being purified the planet itself doesn't have the strength to signify what it needed to - it connotes a sense recuperation or renewal.

So typically combustion can mean a lot of things and this is not such a simple question to answer. Context is important and it can depend on the essential qualities of Mercury and Venus. If they are well dignified (which in your case they are not) in their own signs they can suffer less debilitating effects of combustion in terms of the planet's fortitude/strength according to some Hellensitic authors. In addition, I suspect Mercury at least, and Venus to some extent also, being more regularly combust, are less of a noteworthy feature of most charts anyway.

So unfortunately this cannot be easily answered. You may start though with looking at what Mercury and Venus in your chart rules and considering ideas of things behind hidden or made whole or made anew.

Quote:
My Mercury is in heliacal rising after the Sunrise but my Venus is in heliacal rising before the Sunrise. What does it describe?


I'm not sure what you mean here, Mercury cannot be heliacally rising after sunrise in an observable sense. Typically when a planet makes some appearance out of combustion after some time of being combust, it is noteworthy in some not quite fully defined manner. It is like that planet and its signification is brimming with the potential from being renewed and is young and an infant again, and has the same sense of brimming with life, yet also a sense of potential rather than actualisation, that a baby may have.

With this in mind, you can observe what Mercury and Venus are doing in your chart and what they signify and their overall condition and what they aspect and so on to get a better idea of what this may be for you.

Quote:
May I know what does it mean by "Zodiacal Order" in Hellenistic? I realized that in Hellenistic Astrology, we should analyse the chart in clockwise manner, which is totally in contrary to modern practice.


I don't know what you have in mind here that's reversed, but zodiacal order simply means according to the order of the signs of the zodiac; Aries, Taurus, Gemini, Cancer, Leo, Virgo, Libra ...
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yongsua



Joined: 19 Jan 2017
Posts: 5

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul wrote:
Hi yongsua

Welcome to the forum. You've asked a lot of questions so let me try to just briefly reply to them all, without going into any depth.

Quote:
However, I have trouble understanding the "The Star Beholds the Ascendant or Lot" (Riley) or "The Star Allotted the Hour of Lot"(Schmidt).


Are you sure of this rendering of the section? Does Riley say "beholds" or simply "holds"? In my version it is simply holds, I'm not sure if you have some other context or area of the text in mind.

To behold something typically means to witness it or see with some sense of attention applied to what is seen. In modern terms we just say that the planets are in aspect. So were I to say that Mars beholds the ascendant, it would mean that Mars is in aspect to the ascendant.

However that is not the meaning that is implied in this section of Valens' text. If you're someone who owns a piece of land, perhaps to grow vegetables or flowers on, you may be said to own an allotment. This area of land belongs to you, you imagine me saying that this allotment is allotted to you. This closer to the kind of thing valens means here, and in this way of looking at it what he means is to refer to a condition where a planet is allotted the Ascendant, that is to say, owns or rules the allotment of the zodiac which ascends. In modern temrs we would simply say "if the planet rules the ascendant". So if Aries is rising, Aries is ruled/allotted to Mars. So Mars holds the allotment.

Quote:
How do you consider Mercury or Venus to be in combustion hellenistically?


The really truthful answer is that it all depends. Combustion has a sense of renewal, purgation and cleansing whilst at the same time stripping those planets which are combust of their power to signify. It is like a holy or divine experience, the Sun moves over degrees of the zodiac, as well as the planets found there, and cleanses them, and makes them new again. In the process the planet is stripped of itself and in a sense reborn. Whilst being purified the planet itself doesn't have the strength to signify what it needed to - it connotes a sense recuperation or renewal.

So typically combustion can mean a lot of things and this is not such a simple question to answer. Context is important and it can depend on the essential qualities of Mercury and Venus. If they are well dignified (which in your case they are not) in their own signs they can suffer less debilitating effects of combustion in terms of the planet's fortitude/strength according to some Hellensitic authors. In addition, I suspect Mercury at least, and Venus to some extent also, being more regularly combust, are less of a noteworthy feature of most charts anyway.

So unfortunately this cannot be easily answered. You may start though with looking at what Mercury and Venus in your chart rules and considering ideas of things behind hidden or made whole or made anew.

Quote:
My Mercury is in heliacal rising after the Sunrise but my Venus is in heliacal rising before the Sunrise. What does it describe?


I'm not sure what you mean here, Mercury cannot be heliacally rising after sunrise in an observable sense. Typically when a planet makes some appearance out of combustion after some time of being combust, it is noteworthy in some not quite fully defined manner. It is like that planet and its signification is brimming with the potential from being renewed and is young and an infant again, and has the same sense of brimming with life, yet also a sense of potential rather than actualisation, that a baby may have.

With this in mind, you can observe what Mercury and Venus are doing in your chart and what they signify and their overall condition and what they aspect and so on to get a better idea of what this may be for you.

Quote:
May I know what does it mean by "Zodiacal Order" in Hellenistic? I realized that in Hellenistic Astrology, we should analyse the chart in clockwise manner, which is totally in contrary to modern practice.


I don't know what you have in mind here that's reversed, but zodiacal order simply means according to the order of the signs of the zodiac; Aries, Taurus, Gemini, Cancer, Leo, Virgo, Libra ...


Thank you very much. It is late night here, I will get back to you soon.
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