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Child together in the cards

 
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Polina



Joined: 19 Sep 2014
Posts: 109

Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:00 pm    Post subject: Child together in the cards Reply with quote

I recently asked this horary as I am at a crossroads in my personal life and looking for some clues as to what the best "next steps" are. I'm with a man who, while claiming he is not opposed to having another child, is fairly fresh out of divorce and cannot see one in the short term. Our ages do not permit us to try beyond a year or maybe two, max three from now. As much as I have tried to cull information from him regarding if he is fully opposed to having a child vs willing to vs "never" vs "Maybe" i am not TRULY sure where he stands. I'm not pressuring him now but inquiring if at SOME point this is something we can address or if it is off the table for him. I'm looking to the stars for what is in store, or not. So I can adjust expectations.

Will he and I have a child together before it is too late for me to be able to do so, generally speaking? By this I mean, not this year, but overall, is a child in our future or not?

The chart is below and this is my take.

http://imgur.com/a/wrpUS
http://imgur.com/a/wrpUS

I would welcome any detailed insights that I'm overlooking.

First, basic conception is 1H/me plus 5H/future baby.
ASC/Cancer/Moon is me.
5H/Libra/Venus is potential future child.
7H/Cap/Saturn is him.
Note: We are not married, but we are living together and splitting rent, which, in his culture is considered he's not serious about me, because women in his culture will not split rent with a man, they expect to be "taken care of" so would never agree to what I agreed to. I mention that because some might take him as 5H but since this is about conception I think 5th should be relegated only to the potential pregnancy/child.

OK so to the aspects:
Moon and Venus applying in a trine in 4 degrees. that would suggests a child, no?
But: Moon in hot Leo (barren) and baby also in hot Aries (infertile) Venus is in detriment in Aries. Moon isn't exalted in any way, but is also not VOC as it will cross a house border but not a sign while still making the other aspects to come.
This is where pregnancy horaries always confuse me because you'd think that an applying aspect would be enough for a yes, but I've also read you need like 10 other factors or "at least X number" of positive indicators and not just an applying aspect, for a "yes"(?)

Mars/his sperm: at 29 critical degrees at home, strong in Aries but about to leave into the baby's/Taurus (by that i mean also ruling Venus) territory. So that would be a supporting factor (?)
He/Saturn though is off in his 12th house, hiding. He has left an aspect with uranus 5 degrees ago, is leaving a Trine with Mars/his own sperm. And is separating from a sextile with Jupiter. He is squaring both Sun and Mercury. Mercury is his health...burnt by the Sun. But Sun rules only his 9th house as I can see (foreigners, which is me).

Jupiter, natural ruler of children, is in the 5th but Rx (I happen to be asking while Jup is Rx but this issue arose now)...I dont know if the "moving backwards" is relevant if its not the primary signif for 5H here.

5H has two full signs fully intercepted, both Libra and Scorpio, same with the 11th, so this axis has some blockage but am not sure what it is.

So would this be a yes or a no? or a "yes with problems" (?)
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felipeastrologo



Joined: 02 Apr 2015
Posts: 225

Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Moon-Venus trine shows it is possible. But the lack of receptions show that likely there will be no motivation.

The Moon is not in any significant dignities of the child, neither is Saturn. Both of you have your focus elsewhere.

Saturn is in an accidentally weak house so he will certainly not be the active force in this. Since it takes two to tango it is on you to make this happen. But the lack of receptions and you being in a neutral house tell me that that will not be an easy thing to do, if doable at all.

Mars, the natural ruler of divorce is separating from Saturn with negative reception. That matches the situation and shows he is still "wounded" from it. It will pass though.

My take is not favorable. But, if you want to hope and work for it, both the Moon and Saturn are in dignities of the Sun. So if, somehow, a common interest connects you both to the child then there may be hope. But it will have to be worked on on your part.
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Polina



Joined: 19 Sep 2014
Posts: 109

Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Felipe you are so good at this! Thanks for your reply and input.

His lack of motivation (utter lack) is readily apparent. The problem is, I cannot make him get his sperm in shape and without that, there will be no child. I have no idea even how to approach this.

I do have a question about this:
Quote:
Mars, the natural ruler of divorce is separating from Saturn with negative reception. That matches the situation and shows he is still "wounded" from it. It will pass though.


because much of his hangup seems to be this divorce and the lack of his apartment selling - those were the conditions for us to have a child in the first place, at least according to his words. But I am not even sure if that was just lip service. I fear that when the apartment does sell he will come up with another reason why he's "not ready".

So I wanted to ask, although mars/Sat are separating, is there a way to tell when those effects will not be so hurtful to him? ie once the orb is past say 10 degrees? The problem is Mars in reality moves fast...and I'm betting that it will be at least til the end of this year, but it could be five or ten years, before he "gets over" the divorce. I'm trying to plan what my next steps are to protect my own interests and not make a huge mistake (in either direction) for the rest of my future.

Or is the issue that he/Saturn needs to move into Capricorn to get out of the depression/hurt from the divorce? I see that's 3 degrees away. I only mention it because it's the next big shift Saturn makes in the chart. Would it signify something inside him changing maybe?

Quote:
So if, somehow, a common interest connects you both to the child then there may be hope.

I'm trying to think what a common interest would be, other than just wanting a child. He has had children so he has "been there"/ but has also said he made too many mistakes w/his grown children and would like to "do it right". Still I dont count on words at this point, it has to be actions.
I feel I have to try while I still have something to try with. How to go about it is another issue. Maybe the key is in this statement of yours above (common interest). But I"m not coming up with ideas right now as to what that could be ...
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felipeastrologo



Joined: 02 Apr 2015
Posts: 225

Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some extra thoughts, Polina:

Mars changing signs could show it will cease to upset him, because there will no longer be a close aspect and thus the negative reception will cease to have an effect. I would not look at Saturn's change of sign.

If sperm is an issue then Jupiter retrograde in house 5 in opposition with Uranus is not favorable.

Since you mentioned it, the Sun could be the property (apartment, L4) if it really has such a weight in the situation. The Sun also rules the child by exaltation so the Sun has a lot of "say" in this situation.

That kind of hints as to why you are not in dignities of the child. You say you really want a child but the chart does not show that, which is puzzling; so it must either show you want something else and the child is merely a means to an end or it must show what has power over you instead: the Sun. Regardless, in the condition you are in you really dislike Saturn in regards to this situation as the Moon is in Saturn's detriment.

Saturn being in his own 12 may be something to be cautious about, that is, regardless of the divorce stopping to upset him he may well indulge in his own house 12 activity; fear, for example. So, yes, the chart shows he is in the right condition to give "other excuses".
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Polina



Joined: 19 Sep 2014
Posts: 109

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi felipe,
Thanks for this info, I will message you with some more details...

Any idea when that shift to the divorce not hurting him so much would happen? They say Mars in Aries (succeedent house/cardinal sign) would be weeks. But Mars into Taurus would be fixed sign so years. It has half of 1 degree to go until its fully in Taurus, is that signifying the shift? That would suggest half of one year or 6 mos from now.(?)

Isn't the 12th house secret love affairs/other women? Or would that be 5th only? If it is 12th, given it is "an accidentally weak house", would he not be energized to take action in terms of other lovers?

And yes the apartment will determine whether I become publicly known to his family, whether we can have a child or not. It is a huge factor in this equation. I did post last...November I think it was, asking when it would sell. I dont have a timing evaluation on it, no one seems to be able to get a good read. I thought I saw 10 months til the sale which would be...September this year.

However to your point, him using excuses, I'm wondering if Saturn being "too old" is going to be his main excuse even after the apartment sells. I am trying to evaluate the relationship now and decide what to do.

Also - yes his sperm would be an issue, at present time he would not be able to simply start "trying". There would have to be steps undertaken to change his diet, cut back on alcohol and resume exercising. That would have to be constant for at least 90 days, likely for months. Am not seeing it happening unless he does a 180 in his attitude towards the situation... and for that he'd have to want the child too...
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mwastrology



Joined: 25 Jul 2015
Posts: 28

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Polina,

You're still doing tons of astrology on this man and your hopes for him having a baby with you, marrying you, buying a house for you, not long after you'd met him.

I commented in your other thread in January this year http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9325

Quote:
Sorry this is harsh but these endless 'love horaries' are a mask for something deeper in you that astrology - natal, solar revolutions, horaries, synastry, time lords, whatever - cannot solve. It all gets very manipulative.


For instance..

Quote:
I am going to attempt to profect 3 years of my boyfriends charts to see what the major themes in his life are going forward. he has asked me this in terms of finance, and I'm curious myself in terms of family.


You're doing first date charts, horaries, profections, solar returns, transits, synastry, and still not finding what you seek. Doesn't that tell you something about what's going on in your life? Doesn't that tell you something about what astrology is good for, and bad for? It should, but it won't if you keep cocking a deaf one to your intuition (for starters).

MW
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Polina



Joined: 19 Sep 2014
Posts: 109

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mw - just a quick look at your past threads: you've made similar comments to other posters, at least 5 times, asking them not to post. I'm not sure if you just have time to comb the forum and attack other posters (?) or what, but it seems odd to me.

I asked the apartment horary back in October or November (do not recall the exact date). Currently this question is more prominent on my boyfriend's mind than it is on mine. The horary chart remains unanalyzed, that is it doesn't have a read yet. I at least was not able to give it a timing analysis, as i'm not that skilled in horary. My boyfriend was the one who wanted this question asked in fact, as his finances depend on it. Mine do not.

By the way - i earn more than my boyfriend does, and no where did i say i was looking for him to purchase a house for me. I had other questions but asking him to buy me or anyone else a house was not one of them. I could not be less interested in his money and i've supported myself for the past 22 years with no outside help. I dont know lots of women my age who can say that. And there is no reason for that to change now. I do not expect individuals to understand my situation which is highly unusual being a westerner in an eastern culture and country.

"still not finding what you seek. Doesn't that tell you something about what's going on in your life? Doesn't that tell you something about what astrology is good for, and bad for?"

Whether or not I find what I seek on this forum or in a chart is not something you could possibly know. And to me, astrology is good for showing insights into the truths that remain unspoken, for showing invisible influences we cannot see, and for helping determine information that might not be forthcoming otherwise. If you've never been betrayed, you might not understand that. If you have been, then you know what i'm saying and why.

I'm not sure what you mean by "endless horaries." I think I asked two or maybe three since last October. there are people here who post daily with new charts. I'm not one of them. Again - I wish you would not attack me or other posters. I do not feel it's fair.
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felipeastrologo



Joined: 02 Apr 2015
Posts: 225

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Polina,

Comments below:

Polina wrote:
Any idea when that shift to the divorce not hurting him so much would happen?


Timing is the least reliable area of horary. Unless the question is specifically about the timing of an event I don't think it is worth spending the time applying the technique.

Polina wrote:
Isn't the 12th house secret love affairs/other women?


No, on its own it is not, as far as I am concerned.

Polina wrote:
Or would that be 5th only?


No, not even the 5th, as far as I am concerned. A third party hidden affair/lover in relationship horaries is usually given by a planet conjunct a significator; often by antiscion.

Polina wrote:
If it is 12th, given it is "an accidentally weak house", would he not be energized to take action in terms of other lovers?


If the question is not about lovers we cannot bring lovers into his 12th house or anywhere else in the chart.

Polina wrote:
However to your point, him using excuses, I'm wondering if Saturn being "too old" is going to be his main excuse even after the apartment sells. I am trying to evaluate the relationship now and decide what to do.


You wil have to ask another specific horary to know those things.

Polina wrote:
Also - yes his sperm would be an issue, at present time he would not be able to simply start "trying". There would have to be steps undertaken to change his diet, cut back on alcohol and resume exercising. That would have to be constant for at least 90 days, likely for months. Am not seeing it happening unless he does a 180 in his attitude towards the situation...


Given the fact that he is in his 12th house he will likely not be interested in making any of those changes. A significator in his/her 12th will not act, given the context. Or it will act against itself, given the context.

Polina wrote:
and for that he'd have to want the child too...


There are no indications in this chart that he wants a child.
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http://traditionalmedicalastrology.org
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