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Aintree Festival
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hera



Joined: 01 Apr 2017
Posts: 28
Location: London

Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am on

405 East Lake (moon on asc opp Neptune)
440 Beyond conceit (neptune desc)

The symbolism works and the jocky Barry Geraghty has kept coming up on tops
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PallasAthene



Joined: 23 Apr 2009
Posts: 693
Location: Bristol, UK

Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ModWasp wrote:
Here are my selections using JAM (John Addey Method) for today.
15:25 God's Own - Quincunx 9th Mars L9, conj. MC


I second that. Also angular moon & this looks to be the favoutite.
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john



Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 561
Location: Lancashire, England

Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have our Conference tomorrow so I've been involved with that this evening.

I'll miss the Al-Kindi Hour Lord section out due to lack of time.

I'll also put the Grand National picks on that thread.

Not forgotten to comment some more on the Cheltenham thread also.

Today went better than expected, it always helps finding the winner in the first race.
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john



Joined: 22 Dec 2006
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Location: Lancashire, England

Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aintree Sat 14.25

Addey 5th : Neptune Lough Derg Spirit, Bordeaux Spirit

MC 10th : Neptune as above

Closest Aspect: Venus/Saturn - Cultivator

Angles: MC/Mercury, Asc/Mars/Uranus Brio Conti, Captain Forez

Al-Kindi Decan: Saturn/Saturn/Venus - Darker than average of the field, no particular markings.


Asc Degree : Fix 22. Brio Conti,
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john



Joined: 22 Dec 2006
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Location: Lancashire, England

Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aintree Sat 15.00

Addey 5th : Moon Colla Pier

MC 10th : Moon Colla Pier

Closest Aspect : Venus/Saturn Forest Bihan

Angles : Asc/Venus, MC/Moon Colla Pier

Al-Kindi Decan: see previous race.


Asc Degree : Fix 28. Charbel
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john



Joined: 22 Dec 2006
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Location: Lancashire, England

Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aintree Sat 15.40

Addey 5th : Saturn Starchitect, Knock House, Sizing Codelco

MC 10th : Saturn as above

Closest Aspect: Venus/Saturn Value at Risk

Angles: Asc/POF/Mercury/NNode, MC/Saturn/Venus I Just Know, Smooth Stepper, Value at Risk

Al-Kindi Decan: Jupiter/Saturn/Sun lighter than average colour with shiny coat, no particular markings.


Asc Degree : Mut 5. Sizing Codelco, also Rightdownthemiddle, Lamb or Cod, Smooth Stepper, Knock House
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john



Joined: 22 Dec 2006
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Location: Lancashire, England

Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aintree Sat 16.20

Addey 5th : Mercury Three Musketeers

MC 10th : POF/Neptune - Ballyoptic

Closest Aspect : Venus/Saturn Cole Harden

Angles : MC/Mercury, Asc/Neptune Three Musketeers, Ballyoptic

Al-Kindi Decan: see previous race.


Asc Degree : Mut 12. Ballyoptic, Ptit Zig, Aux Ptits Soins, Supersundae, Taquin De Seuil
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john



Joined: 22 Dec 2006
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Location: Lancashire, England

Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One good winner, so can't complain.

Looking at the picks over several days, the 5th cusp will usually make an aspect to either the MC or Ascendant. The poetic horses' names will then potentially repeat, if you look to either the 5th, Ascendant or MC for a clue to the winner.

It does make me ask whether it is the 5th that's relevant or if it is the angles.
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ModWasp



Joined: 21 Mar 2014
Posts: 643
Location: England

Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It does make me ask whether it is the 5th that's relevant or if it is the angles.


I think the 5th house cusp is relevant because of it's rulerships - Sport and places associated with it: Racecourses, stadiums, the leisure industry, places of entertainment, etc.. It also rules horse racing and betting on sports, funnily enough. Why wouldn't it be relevant?

The aspects that the 5th cusp makes that is the most important factor here. The aspect to the planets close to ASC and the MC are usually, but not always, a quincunx. This is probably due to the nature of the aspect itself - as I've been saying for several years now. Equally important aspects in my experience are semisextiles and sextiles.

But the most important testimony that outweighs every other is the aspect to the Moon, providing it is the first aspect that the 5th makes, regardless of the nature of the aspect itself. Especially if the sign of the dispositer is also in or on the 12th. Squares don't seem to be much of a problem in these cases.

Retrograde planets and those in either detriment or fall are to be avoided. The outer planets are quite interesting - it seems to be that their antiscion work quite well, as we saw on Thursday with The World's End - Semisextile ant. Pluto, conj. IC in 4th.

Another interesting point that i have noticed with JAM, is that it works very well with the low grade races, such as novices and maidens.

I am convinced that this system consistently gets better results than any other i have yet come across, providing one follows the rules of it. And one of those is that it can't be used like a slot machine. The problems with it, as always and with any chart, lay with the interpretation of the chart in question and not the astrology of it.
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john



Joined: 22 Dec 2006
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Location: Lancashire, England

Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi ModWasp, thanks for responding.

The Worlds End chart (if I can call it that!) is a good example.

5th Campanus cusp 7 degrees Capricorn (I know there are minutes and seconds but Ill simplify it for the purposes of the example)

Pluto is 19 Capricorn, its antiscia is 10 Sagittarius and the IC is 9 Sagittarius.

So the MC/IC is 9 Gemini/Sagittarius and this will move forwards to 10 Sagittarius.

We now have both the 5th cusp and the MC moving to the antiscion of Pluto! My query in the last post was which one we should consider.

Geometrically the circle will always create an aspect between the Ascendant, MC and 5th cusp (dependant on how wide your orbs are!).

With this geometry, most other house systems will make aspects between these 3 points, to the extent that if they are directed by primary motion they will reach the same point, be it an antiscion or planet. This doesnt happen all the time, as Im sure readers will appreciate, but it does happen sufficiently for it to be relevant to consider.

This then allows the question, why Campanus and not another house system! There are no issues about the meaning of the 5th cusp but the importance of the angles is not easily dismissed either.

I thought that as similar horses kept coming up for the angles and the 5th cusp at both Cheltenham and Aintree that this was worthy of comment.

Going back to the Worlds End Chart, Mars is at 20 Taurus and its antiscion is 9 Leo.
The 5th cusp is 920 and antiscion Mars is 936.

I believe Ive acknowledged previously that the 5th cusp on maiden/novice races seems relevant, possibly because there is not the same competition between jockeys/trainers and there is possibly more focus on seeing how the horse performs early in its career.
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ModWasp



Joined: 21 Mar 2014
Posts: 643
Location: England

Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John,

Interesting post, i'll do my bestest to answer you questions, but it won't all be in a single post.

Quote:
This then allows the question, why Campanus and not another house system! There are no issues about the meaning of the 5th cusp but the importance of the angles is not easily dismissed either.


I think that the main argument for Campanus houses is that it's the method in which the 3 Dimensional view of space can be set for the time and location of the event in question, the meridian of the event. In my opinion, this makes the chart much easier on the eye. As it's emphasis is on the prime vertical - literally, the circle in front of you - and it's right angles in relation to the position of the point set for the chart - the race in this instance - which then passes through the east and west points of the horizon, as well as, effectively, the MC and IC, according to the location at which the chart is set. In other words, it divides in sky into houses according to the location, making it easier to determine the position of any given heavenly body and it's relationship to the angles and other points, at that particular moment and at that particular location. In my view, it's the most logical system to use for horse racing, because the "Moment of Astrology" happens or at least should happen, if the char is judged correctly, at the meridian, or the point for which the chart is set, in other words. I'd recommend Geoffrey Cornelius's book of the same name, for further reading.

In short, it's a 'point' or meridian centred system - ideal for racing, because the chart is, theoretically at least, set for that particular moment in time at that particular location.
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ModWasp



Joined: 21 Mar 2014
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Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I
Quote:
believe Ive acknowledged previously that the 5th cusp on maiden/novice races seems relevant, possibly because there is not the same competition between jockeys/trainers and there is possibly more focus on seeing how the horse performs early in its career.


It's the horse that wins the race, not the jockey or the trainer. Otherwise AP would have won the National every year for the last 20. And who was the real champion? Tom Queally, Sir Henry Cecil or Frankel? It seems a little peculiar to me that a race horse could be considered third most important factor in a horse race!
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ModWasp



Joined: 21 Mar 2014
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Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
5th Campanus cusp 7 degrees Capricorn (I know there are minutes and seconds but Ill simplify it for the purposes of the example)

Pluto is 19 Capricorn, its antiscia is 10 Sagittarius and the IC is 9 Sagittarius.

So the MC/IC is 9 Gemini/Sagittarius and this will move forwards to 10 Sagittarius.

We now have both the 5th cusp and the MC moving to the antiscion of Pluto! My query in the last post was which one we should consider.


Conjoined to an angle is an extra testimony, for sure. But it's not the only one. I have literally 100's of charts in which the winning significator is nowhere near any of the angles. Of course, it's always a bonus when it happens.

JAM is more than just looking at the first aspect: I take into consideration all manner of factors;- House placement, rulership, aspects to other planets, term etc...
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john



Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 561
Location: Lancashire, England

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi ModWasp, thanks for the detailed replies.

My focus is encouraging all astrologers, whatever their areas of interest or techniques used.
Hopefully the threads over the last few weeks may interest others enough to enquire a little more into sports astrology- who knows!

There are a number of techniques out there which Ive worked with at Cheltenham and Aintree, hopefully this will let anyone who wants to try it out can see what some of the various options are and what the level of success (or near misses) have been.

Whatever anyone wants to consider important, be it horoscopes of individuals, information from an event chart (for example Moon on an angle in a feminine sign for the Grand National and female owners and a female trainer winning) or the name of a person/animal/object, then good to luck to all.

Im not concerned with advocating one method over another, for those that do, well, great also.

If there is future interest in other racing festivals on this forum, Id be happy enough to join in again.
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ModWasp



Joined: 21 Mar 2014
Posts: 643
Location: England

Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi John

Sorry for the late reply. I've been traversing the country all week and haven't always had internet connection.

I was interested in your reply to my reply of your comment!

Quote:
Geometrically the circle will always create an aspect between the Ascendant, MC and 5th cusp (dependant on how wide your orbs are!).

With this geometry, most other house systems will make aspects between these 3 points, to the extent that if they are directed by primary motion they will reach the same point, be it an antiscion or planet. This doesnt happen all the time, as Im sure readers will appreciate, but it does happen sufficiently for it to be relevant to consider.

This then allows the question, why Campanus and not another house system! There are no issues about the meaning of the 5th cusp but the importance of the angles is not easily dismissed either.

I thought that as similar horses kept coming up for the angles and the 5th cusp at both Cheltenham and Aintree that this was worthy of comment.


Hopefully, I explained the virtues of Campanus systems as well as i could! I'd be interested to know what your own thoughts on house systems for this discipline of astrology is? And why, for example, do you think that angles have more importance over other house systems?

Thanks.

MW
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