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Existential horary

 
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moonbright



Joined: 21 Jul 2015
Posts: 162
Location: Canada

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:59 pm    Post subject: Existential horary Reply with quote




Hi:

To say that my life has been unusual is bit of an understatement and I was wondering if perhaps there was some specific purpose to this unusualness.

This is somewhat of an end-run around my natal chart but the gods seem sympathetic as the question is radical with the hour ruler Moon having the same humoural nature as Scorpio. The ASC is at a good degree and no other Considerations Before Judgement apply.

The ASC is closest (3 degrees) to the fixed star Princeps.

Mars is in rough shape: peregrine, retrograde, cadent (although not in the worst house), and conjunct the South Node. The Moon is also peregrine, decreasing in light, and angular.

The next aspect to Mars is the opposition of Mercury in 9 (peregrine, ruler of 8 and 11). I think this refers to the result of a grumpy phone call I made to the tax people about the delay in correcting their error which seemed to finally light a fire under them (go Mars!) as I received my corrected assessment in August.

The Moon’s next aspect to a traditional planet is a sextile to Saturn, domicile, retrograde, sitting on the cusp of three, ruler of 3 and 4. This would typically refer to trouble communicating but with whom and about what? Issues of family, I’m guessing.

I was hoping there might be some information about a job or career. The Sun (peregrine) ruler of 10 is in 9 disposed by the Moon in 4. Astrology? I don’t really have the education to do anything that this house suggests as a career as far as I know. The 4th house placement suggests working for my family?

I don’t know what or who Venus (peregrine, ruler 7 and 12) represents, except perhaps an enemy or enemies. Jupiter (term, retrograde, ruler of 2 and 5) seems positive for money from hobbies/arts activities except that Neptune is sitting on the cusp of 5 and Jupiter itself is retrograding away from the 2nd house cusp suggesting that those activities are a waste of money rather than a money-maker?

Uranus on the cusp of 7 seems significant but for what?

Any feedback greatly appreciated.
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Location: vancouver island

Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

....

Last edited by james_m on Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Wade



Joined: 20 Jul 2013
Posts: 87
Location: London, UK

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Existential horary Reply with quote

hi Moonbright --

your post title spoke to me, as did the chart you've attached, so I hope you don't mind me jumping in to provide a few thoughts, some technical, but most about what this chart tells me about where you're at. I'll respond in-line.

moonbright wrote:
To say that my life has been unusual is bit of an understatement and I was wondering if perhaps there was some specific purpose to this unusualness.


I want to start by pointing out the title of your question (as seen in the chart name on the image you attached) reads, "What is the purpose of my existence?"

human to human, I just wanted to say that many readers (myself included) will be able to empathise with the feeling of distress and frustration that questions like these evoke in us. understanding purpose is, for some, a lifelong mission. some never think about it, just move on day to day, but for those of us who want our time on earth to count for something, the curveballs life throws our way can cause us to enter into deep valleys of confusion and desperate search. meaning feels just out of reach, hope is hard to keep alive.

I think an earnest, robust answer to a question like this is probably beyond the scope of what a horary can provide. I mean, we'd really need to dismantle what it means to have purpose in life anyway -- to what extent are we complicit in that purpose, to what extent are we instruments, etc. but what astrology (and all esoteric arts) do well is help us identify where things are not in harmony, where things are not in flow, and where we can expect disorder, distress and dissatisfaction as a result. when I think about people who feel like they're living fruitful, productive lives, it may or may not mean that they've found a life purpose (because, again, who's to say that your purpose today should extend into tomorrow, or reach back into yesterday?) -- I'm more inclined to believe that what this person found is a way to reflect back cosmic/natural flow, where the wind feels at their back, and every decision seems to propel them 'forward' (if such a direction really exists on this level).

so I look at this chart, and look at this question, and think that the astrology of this horary is speaking less about the "purpose of [your] existence" and more to what's standing in your way from feeling as though recent experiences are serving a larger purpose. I can't tell you what your life and what's happening in it should mean to you (and no astrologer worth their salt should ever try); but perhaps we can make sense of the symbols in front of us, and hope that somewhere in this process, meaning emerges and gives you something useful to build on.

moonbright wrote:
This is somewhat of an end-run around my natal chart but the gods seem sympathetic as the question is radical with the hour ruler Moon having the same humoural nature as Scorpio.


finding humoural agreement is a better indication of a moment of cosmic sympathy and harmony than evidence that a question is radical. this is a very useful technique when the astrologer fears they're being lied to by a querent, but as you're asking this yourself, I don't think that's something we need to worry about. if the chart describes the situation, then I think that's all we need to worry about.

moonbright wrote:
The ASC is at a good degree and no other Considerations Before Judgement apply.


I'm not sure what you mean by the ascendant being in a "good" degree, unless you're perhaps referring to the table of degrees in which the 7th degree of Scorpio (i.e., 6º Scorpio 00' to 6º Scorpio 59') is listed as "increasing in fortune". I don't know if I'd put much emphasis behind this myself, but fair enough to have noted it. do you have an interpretation behind this?

moonbright wrote:
The ASC is closest (3 degrees) to the fixed star Princeps.


Robson says (pg. 190) that if this star is rising, it brings "good fortune but troubles, discontent and fear occasioned by own temerity rather than circumstances." keep this in mind as we progress.

moonbright wrote:
Mars is in rough shape: peregrine, retrograde, cadent (although not in the worst house), and conjunct the South Node. The Moon is
also peregrine, decreasing in light, and angular.


if you want to dive into this horary, don't list the features but flesh them out and describe them. what does it mean to have Mars as a significator, rather than Venus or Jupiter or Mercury, etc.? and Mars through Scorpio on the ascendant rather than Aries? and how is that adapted by Mars being peregrine (i.e., having no attachment to its environment)? and retrograde (i.e., appearing to be going backward)? and cadent (i.e., in a house which fundamentally lacks power and initiative as it has exerted its strength coming off the northern angle of the 4th house)? conjunct the South Node (i.e., a point which marks the lowering of a planet from north of the ecliptic to south)? and actually, if you really wanted to get down to it: is it the ecliptic that's coming to Mars and thereby making him more southern, or is Mars also on the southern path in respect to his own nodes, thereby doubling down on this downward motion? and what does it mean to find Mars in the 3rd house, in particular, disposited by Saturn?

the answer to pretty much everything you're experiencing right now must begin here, in extracting as much useful information from these points as is possible. don't rush through it -- interpreting these items and finding the common themes (while also identifying those things that are sticking out) is what will make for a fluent, powerful chart interpretation.

once you've done this with Mars, do this with the Moon.

moonbright wrote:
The next aspect to Mars is the opposition of Mercury in 9 (peregrine, ruler of 8 and 11). I think this refers to the result of a grumpy phone call I made to the tax people about the delay in correcting their error which seemed to finally light a fire under them (go Mars!) as I received my corrected assessment in August.


Mars is separating from a square to Jupiter (natural significator of wealth, but 2nd-ruler as well), moving now to a mutual applying opposition with Mercury. as you said, Mercury rules the 8th, and so there does seem to be financial issues weighing the mind down, as if at one stage there had been more financial independence but it is slipping now, and financial obstacles are presenting themselves left and right (Mars between two financial significators naturally and accidentally). the chart does seem to highlight, through the square of Mars and Jupiter, that perhaps some decisions you've made with money didn't work out as well as you'd hoped, may or may not be connected to this 8th house hit but it doesn't help that they're happening so close together.

moonbright wrote:
The Moon’s next aspect to a traditional planet is a sextile to Saturn, domicile, retrograde, sitting on the cusp of three, ruler of 3 and 4. This would typically refer to trouble communicating but with whom and about what? Issues of family, I’m guessing.


maybe. but the Moon's just separated from an opposition to Venus, I'd be interested in knowing what that was about. Venus is the natural significator of relationships, rules the 7th, Uranus is on the cusp of the 7th, and Venus is angular, exerting her influence all over this chart. Jupiter, Venus, Uranus, Moon: they're all angular, and Mars has just slipped off the angle: why does it feel like there are really strong figures around you, and you've lost your footing in terms of being strong in dealing with these pressures?

moonbright wrote:
I was hoping there might be some information about a job or career. The Sun (peregrine) ruler of 10 is in 9 disposed by the Moon in 4. Astrology? I don’t really have the education to do anything that this house suggests as a career as far as I know. The 4th house placement suggests working for my family?


you launched into this asking an existential question about life purpose. is it that you see your career as evidence of a life well-lived? are you struggling to make sense of what you should be doing professionally? I think there's actually plenty of information here about job and career: why is Venus in the 10th? why is the 10th-ruler opposing Saturn? why is Jupiter square the midheaven? you've asked quite a general question about your life direction, and so it's unlikely that the chart is going to come back and say, "here, go do this." instead, it's going to deliver the best kind of prophecy: an honest assessment of the present, explaining how and why you're here in this position. without understand what the chart has to say about that, it'll be tough to interpret what the chart might be hinting at as the source of trouble and what you might want to do to move forward.

moonbright wrote:
I don’t know what or who Venus (peregrine, ruler 7 and 12) represents, except perhaps an enemy or enemies.


could be natural signification, or tying together 12th house with the 7th (as Venus rules them both). keep digging here.

moonbright wrote:
Jupiter (term, retrograde, ruler of 2 and 5) seems positive for money from hobbies/arts activities except that Neptune is sitting on the cusp of 5 and Jupiter itself is retrograding away from the 2nd house cusp suggesting that those activities are a waste of money rather than a money-maker?


this Jupiter doesn't seem that helpful to me, to be honest, as it is retrograde, in square to its dispositor (you) and separating from it. seems to be a need to reassess things here rather than interpret it as a very helpful thing on its own.

moonbright wrote:
Uranus on the cusp of 7 seems significant but for what?


that's really only something you can know, but Uranus is often quite a difficult energy that breaks things apart, separates them, disassociates them. might want to explore things in that sense.
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moonbright



Joined: 21 Jul 2015
Posts: 162
Location: Canada

Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Wade:

Thank you so much for your detailed response. I will let what you've said percolate and respond when I'm able, which isn't now unfortunately as events have overtaken taken me for the moment. Confused

I really appreciate your thoughtful assessment of this chart.

Cheers.

mooonbright
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waybread



Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 943
Location: Canada

Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think, with a question like this, the horoscope is a map of your mind at the time you ask the question.

Some of the lucky people presumably wake up at the age of 8 or so, and know that they want to be a doctor. Certainly in ages past, many women thought their calling in life was so be a good wife and mother.

Many of us don't have that kind of certainty, however-- and may never get it.

I got into astrology some years ago with the deeply stressful realization that I didn't know why I was on the planet. Not just as a human being, but me personally. I knew nothing about astrology other than my sun-sign and dimly, that each horoscope was individualized. I began studying astrology intensively, because I needed an answer relevant to me personally-- not just a generic one-size-fits-all answer from psychology, religion, or a human potential movement.

I never did find out why I was on the planet, but I learned a lot of astrology in the process. I did figure out that the meaning of one's life probably isn't the name of their profession.

The first place I would look as the MC, as one's calling or vocation. Then where is the ruling planet (lord) located? The sun in this chart is in the 9th house of philosophy and theology. This also strikes a chord with Jupiter as your co-significator in the 1st house.

I don't at mean to sound facetious at all when I say that maybe the foundational meaning of your life is to explore the meaning of your life. Maybe you do this as an exploration into metaphysics. Or, with the moon in the 4th, maybe as an exploration into your own consciousness via depth psychology.

Then if examining the meaning of life is to be a life-long calling, there's no final answer, but rather, a lifetime of rewarding exploration. Because if you did find the meaning of your life once and for all, it would be finished for you-- and thus, no longer an enduring project.

Maybe your calling in life is to be a seeker.
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moonbright



Joined: 21 Jul 2015
Posts: 162
Location: Canada

Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Wade:

Thanks again for your response.

Quote:
I think an earnest, robust answer to a question like this is probably beyond the scope of what a horary can provide.


I was actually thinking exactly that after trying to read this. In fact, it’s made me wonder about “ever” type questions and whether horary can answer them at all.

Quote:
I’m not sure what you mean by the ascendant being in a “good” degree.


I just meant that the ascendant was neither too early nor late per Lilly.

Quote:
…what does it mean to have Mars as a significator…
…and Mars through Scorpio on the ascendant rather than Aries?



My natal Mars is in Scorpio in an angle (4). It’s true that I don’t have any attachment to the environment I’m in - I live in a culture that is not my own and not near my immediate family nor long-time friends. Not sure about the appearance of going backward. I was not well when I cast this chart so perhaps that’s what it is alluding to. That would also explain the cadency.

I don’t have the technical understanding of what you were talking about regarding the South Node to be able to answer your question. I usually think of the South Node in horary as an “empty promise”: something that looks good in the beginning but then doesn’t deliver anything. In this case it would appear that I’m the empty promise.

Quote:
…what does it mean to find Mars in the 3rd house, in particular disposited by Saturn.



A “restriction of communication”, perhaps anger not being expressed? There could also be a “restriction of mobility” because of illness.

Quote:
Once you’ve done this with Mars, do this with the Moon.


The Moon is also not attached to its environment, waning, so ?losing energy but angular, so able to act. Sitting in the fourth house would point to issues of home or maybe describing the root of the issue or the end of things. Disposed by Jupiter alludes to money issues again. It is conjunct Formalhaut, one of the Royal Stars, which has the nature of Venus and Mercury. Anthony Louis (Horary Astrology 1991, Page 315) lists several different interpretations for this star but I’m not sure which one to focus on.

Deborah Houlding has written:
Quote:
Formalhaut is a reddish star to which Ptolemy attributes an influence similar to that of Venus and Mercury.[5] It is generally considered beneficial and associated with eminence, fortune, and power, but if afflicted it has the potential to portend significant disaster. It is often linked with a destiny towards occult or religious affairs and is said by Ebertin and Hoffman to offer success for scientists and writers.

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/pis_aus.html#formalhaut

Quote:
The chart does seem to highlight…that perhaps some decisions you’ve made with money didn’t work out as well as you’d hoped…


Most of my decisions regarding money are made for me because I’m poor so not really true decision-making, more like adapting to circumstances. The whole issue with the tax people was the single greatest financial pressure at the time because it was delaying my ability to access resources that might be helpful.

Quote:
But the Moon’s just separated from an opposition to Venus, I’d be interested in knowing what that was about.


Thank you for shaking up my thinking about this because I believe I know what this is now. For some reason, maybe because I was looking at the chart and thinking about the future rather than the past, I didn’t realize that it was referring to someone with whom I seemed to share an attraction. He started behaving poorly however and that was pretty much the end of it for me - Moon applying to Uranus. The whole thing felt fairly incidental to me, another reason it didn’t jump to mind immediately.

Interesting though that Manilius put Venus in her joy in the 10th and also attributed marriage to that house (Houlding, Temples of the Sky, Page 32). I find it difficult to believe that someone half my age would be interested in marrying me, however, at the time this chart was cast Uranus was sitting on his Sun so maybe working its strange magic.

The Sun is also in its joy in 9 and I was a little bit hoping that that might refer to the opportunity to go to university, something I always wanted to do. But as you say Saturn is opposed. There is a grand trine among Sun, Neptune and Jupiter. I’m not always sure how to interpret Neptune when it lands strongly in a chart; on the cusp of 5, one would think that perhaps it was a good thing for creative arts, so maybe the creativity’s there but not so good for making money because of Jupiter’s condition. I enjoy creative writing and I’m not a drinker so it’s not referring to me as a party animal I don’t think.

Quote:
Is it that you see your career as evidence of a life well-lived? Are you struggling to make sense of what you should be doing professionally?


Maybe and yes.

In part I was simply casting about looking for something that ties things together. In this I’m reminded of James Baldwin, the American writer, who, when he was asked what it was like to be born poor, Black, and gay, responded (paraphrasing), “Well, as a writer, I think I hit the jackpot.” So for him, there was an underlying organizing principle to his sense of unusualness or “otherness”. The sheer weirdness of my life and the lack of fruition is upsetting at times and so this organizing theme idea suits my thinking. It’s probably a bit much to expect the universe to be so neat and tidy and obvious, however, unless God really is a Virgo.

It’s probably normal to reflect on one’s mortality when one isn’t well and in reflecting on my life I am frustrated by the lack of anything left behind. My peers all have something tangible they can point to as their “legacy” while I cannot. My siblings have both created a substantial body of work and one has many children and now grandchildren. The only thing I’ll leave behind is my trail of garbage like everyone else. I haven’t created or influenced anyone or anything that will live beyond me.

As for what I “should be” doing, any direction whatsoever from anybody would be greatly appreciated!

Quote:
…why is Venus in the 10th? Why is the 10th ruler opposing Saturn? Why is Jupiter square the mid-heaven?


I have no idea why Venus is the 10th other than the romantic attraction. Venus is a natural significator of money. I suppose the 10th ruler is the key to fending off any familial pressures I might face but Saturn is the superior planet and has more dignity, although weakened by retrogradation. Jupiter squaring the MC reminds me of the saying “you’ve got to spend money to make money”. Perhaps this just refers to the fact that applying for jobs, going to interviews, etc., drains money?

I don’t know if I’ve answered more questions than I’ve created but I hope so. Certainly your questions have helped me clarify some things and reinforce the idea that horary may not be the best method of answering questions about one’s life purpose. Looking forward to anything else you choose to add. Thank you very much.
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