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Time For A Serious Talk About Sports Astrology
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Jupiterhead



Joined: 22 Jul 2013
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Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:23 pm    Post subject: Time For A Serious Talk About Sports Astrology Reply with quote

The Addey Horse Racing Method doesn’t work with any sort of consistency. Now, I don’t know if that’s because it eventually becomes a ‘slot machine’ horary chart, or whether using it, is dependent on the practitioner’s own chart transit’s/progressions.

Also, what on earth does the 5th house cusp have to do with horse racing? Yes, there is talk of the 5th house representing ‘speculation’, but why? Surely, it’s the opposite 11th house that would determine a ‘gain’. Or the 10th cusp of ‘recognition’. One could even sight the 3rd house of competition (Vedic).

Also, I have to question Frawley’s entire Sports Astrology book. We tested his ‘Horary Event Chart’ method during the UEFA Euro 2016 championships, and it registered a 32% strike rate. No good.

I remain convinced that one cannot practice ‘sports astrology’ without an exact birth time of the contestants. Why? Because we need to use the house cusps of the birth chart for each participant, in order to make an accurate prediction.

What do you guys think?
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ModWasp



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Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's an interesting question and in fact, i was thinking exactly the same thing this morning, so thanks for this post.

Quote:
The Addey Horse Racing Method doesn’t work with any sort of consistency.


I agree with that, although i am convinced that there are certain testimonies that work very well with JAM. For example, when the 1st aspect from the 5th is to the lord of the 12th. This is particularly true in the case of the Moon, which represents the public interest in the race and the Sun, for the same reasons. However at this time of year, races start later in the day when the 12th is generally in either Virgo or Libra for afternoon races. That means that we now have to look for either Mercury of Venus names, if that's the first aspect to be made and i've personally found that to be quite difficult to do, maybe because these are generally the fastest moving bodies?

When i worked in a bookies a couple of years ago, i asked myself a similar question as to why JAM didn't work with any great consistency (although i have to say, that i backed more winners, more often and at higher prices than any of the punters - i know this because i used to look at all their bets)! And i came to the conclusion that when the 5th is in a sign of short ascension, as it is now for most afternoon races, the aspect from the 5th becomes more sensitive because it moves faster than when not in a short ascension sign.

This morning i was considering the retrograde motion of both Saturn and Jupiter and whether or not this has any bearing on the current situation. I have a feeling that i might do, because i've had periods where i've sat down on a Monday evening and picked 5 or 6 winners from 7 races at Kempton or Windsor. I have a suspicion that these two giants in retrograde might have a part to play.

to be continued
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ModWasp



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Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Now, I don’t know if that’s because it eventually becomes a ‘slot machine’ horary chart

I pointed out several months ago that i noticed that my own win rate went up when i applied astrology more sparingly and so I think there is some truth in the slot machine theory. But it's so difficult to resist doing a quick chart for the 7.40 at Kempton when you get home from work on a Monday eve! Frawley said somewhere that when he got involved with a serious money punter he couldn't make a prediction. I think he was intimating that big money punting isn't really anything to do with the 5th house.

Quote:
or whether using it, is dependent on the practitioner’s own chart transit’s/progressions.


Interestingly, i had my biggest ever winning day at the beginning of April - £6K from £88 worth of bets. I had 2 trebles, 3 doubles, 3 e/w singles and a r/fc, from 2 astrobets and a tip from a handicapper. The very first thing i noticed when i went back to analyse my win, was that Fortuna was conjunct my natal Fortuna in my 2nd house when i first cast the charts for the day.

So i think you might have a point there, with regard to personal situations, but after 25 years of looking for transits, it's fair enough to say that i don't believe that they work and certainly not with the faster moving bodies, at any rate. I think the theory of a transit is a lazy theory.

tbc...
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GB



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Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that the first aspect by the Campanus 5th does not work consistently; however, it does work from time to time. This is to be expected. We do not expect a single factor in a chart to be the answer, rather we expect a number of factors to come together all indicating the same result.

An excellent astrologer friend of mine says never believe a prediction unless it is shown in three different ways. This is my experience as well, although I accept a result shown in two ways.

I use the C. 5th (many references give horse-racing and speculation to the 5th, and it seems to work). I also look at the angles, aspects from them but particularly a planet in an angle. Finally I look at the owner’s colours carried by the jockey. The 5th on its own I ignore.

As an example, today (10th) at Haydock in the 2.55 we had the C. 5th next aspect to Jupiter. (Note I only use Ptolemaic aspects to the planet, not semisquares, and not antiscia). Jupiter itself was rising in the 1st, less than three degrees from the Ascendant, and stationing direct. This selected Jupiter for me. Many authorities give ‘Handsome’ to Jupiter. The horse Handsome Dude carried purple silks (Jupiter gives the Imperial Purple).

Result from multiple testimonies was that Handsome Dude won at 8/1

I should emphasise that this does not always work, but multiple testimonies particularly if they include the colour, often works very well. A single indication such as C. 5th on its own often fails.
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ModWasp



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Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Also, what on earth does the 5th house cusp have to do with horse racing? Yes, there is talk of the 5th house representing ‘speculation’, but why?


I think the 5th house cusp is relevant to racing because of it's rulerships - sports and the places associated with it - racecourses, stadiums, the leisure industry, places of entertainment, etc.. It also rules horse racing and betting on sports - as an entertainment factor.

As i've mentioned several times on these here forums, the quincunx seems to be the most important aspect, in my personal view, and this links in nicely with the JAM. The quincunx is a 5th harmonic aspect - an inconjunct - i.e an aspect in which each part or side, wants to overcome the other which results in a mutual struggle . The best symbolism of a quincunx is the 5 on a rolling dice.

It is also the pattern to which fishing nets are made.

What i find interesting about the shape of the quincunx pattern is that you can see it in almost every professional sport - In football there's 4 corners and a centre circle, in tennis - it's a square with a ball going backwards and forwards, ruby has the same imagery - the blue ball in snooker is worth 5 points and is placed in the middle of the table. In cricket they practice in nets and there's a net in tennis. Even in the world's oldest professional sport - Sumo - there are four corners and a sacred circle in the middle.There are probably others, but i'm starting to lag a bit.

So, if sport is about competition, which of course it is (Arsenal have nothing to do with Chelsea, for example - their attitude towards each other could best be described as an inconjunct), than the 5th harmonic aspect - the quincunx - should therefore be representative of the competition in hand because there are opposing forces working against each other at that particular time. You could also apply this theory to racing - in the context that it is a competition.

I'll carry on tomorrow because me brain is starting to melt.....

Haven't even arrived at why Mars' two signs are quincunx each other ....

tbc.. crying
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GB



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Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="ModWasp"]
Quote:
Haven't even arrived at why Mars' two signs are quincunx each other ....

And the Venus signs.
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ModWasp



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Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I use the C. 5th (many references give horse-racing and speculation to the 5th, and it seems to work). I also look at the angles, aspects from them but particularly a planet in an angle. Finally I look at the owner’s colours carried by the jockey. The 5th on its own I ignore.


I completely agree with that.

The more testimonies the better. If the colour adds to the testimony, it's all good but in my opinion it's a relatively minor one.

From what i can see, the Campanus Houses work for this sort of event astrology because it's a local based system.

I think we've all had positive experiences of JAM working - Golden Horn is one that i remember you calling out GB - i think the question really should be why does it only work at certain times?

Quote:
And the Venus signs.


The game might be different because of two passives? Just a thought.
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Konrad



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Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you are completely right, Saturnhead. The 5th cusp makes absolutely no astrological sense since it represents children and not success or victory. Also Frawley freely admits his method is not accurate at the end of his book yet he still sold it to the public, and for me, that shows his true intentions. I regularly check in on all of your predictions hoping that someone has figured out something, but really, has any single person reached any sort of profitable accuracy? My issue is that in every other form of astrology, one needs the natal chart, so are we supposed to forget it exists when doing electional charts for sports contests? If we use event charts for the beginning of the contest, it appears we have to, but that flies in the face of all other forms of astrology I can think of.
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ModWasp



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Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Konrad wrote:
I think you are completely right, Saturnhead. The 5th cusp makes absolutely no astrological sense since it represents children and not success or victory. Also Frawley freely admits his method is not accurate at the end of his book yet he still sold it to the public, and for me, that shows his true intentions. I regularly check in on all of your predictions hoping that someone has figured out something, but really, has any single person reached any sort of profitable accuracy? My issue is that in every other form of astrology, one needs the natal chart, so are we supposed to forget it exists when doing electional charts for sports contests? If we use event charts for the beginning of the contest, it appears we have to, but that flies in the face of all other forms of astrology I can think of.


No, it's not consistent, but then again, astrology comes down to personal interpretation. But i think this method still needs some degree of investigation - and that's something only two or maybe three of us actually do on this thread.

People aren't helping the cause in anyway by just wanting someone else to present them with a system that works. And of course, it's far easier to attack something than it is to defend it. I have personally found several conditions where this system works and i've often posted my findings on these here pages. Where are yours? I have absolutely no doubt that JAM is the best system to use with racing and i freely admit that it doesn't work with every race and that brings us back to the question at hand. There are so many examples where it is shown to work, what do you think about those races?

As for your comment on the 5th not being associated with racing, i would suggest reading page 72 of Houlding's book, The Houses. Also, i just posted something regarding the 5th harmonic aspects and their relevance to sporting contests.

And as for finding a profitable accuracy, yes i have. I worked in a bookie's for 18months to test this system out against regular punters. I can honestly say that over time, i backed more winners, more regularly and at higher prices than anyone who walked through that shop door.

What is the difference between a natal chart and a chart for the event? It's the same thing - the event chart is the birth chart for the race.
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Konrad



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Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
No, it's not consistent, but then again, astrology comes down to personal interpretation. But i think this method still needs some degree of investigation - and that's something only two or maybe three of us actually do on this thread.


My point is though, has it not been investigated rather thoroughly? I mean we are the point where we can say it is inconsistent at best, will more investigation make it more consistent? I also believe you shouldn't conflate activity on this forum with activity overall.

Quote:
People aren't helping the cause in anyway by just wanting someone else to present them with a system that works. And of course, it's far easier to attack something than it is to defend it. I have personally found several conditions where this system works and i've often posted my findings on these here pages. Where are yours? I have absolutely no doubt that JAM is the best system to use with racing and i freely admit that it doesn't work with every race and that brings us back to the question at hand. There are so many examples where it is shown to work, what do you think about those races?


Well first, taking my comment about checking in on what is happening here as me actually meaning that I am sitting here waiting on everyone else to present me a winning method is a bit of a leap. Second, there really is no attack, thus no defence is needed. These are genuine questions about a method that you admit is inconsistent. Third, if we say for argument's sake that the method doesn't work at all, and any 'hits' have been completely by chance, these examples of it working have no real significance. If we say that it works, but we haven't fully figured it out, how would you differentiate between genuine hits and lucky picks?

Quote:
As for your comment on the 5th not being associated with racing, i would suggest reading page 72 of Houlding's book, The Houses. Also, i just posted something regarding the 5th harmonic aspects and their relevance to sporting contests.


I said the 5th has no association with victory or success, and it doesn't, not by the angle it is the succeedent of nor by its trines.

Quote:
And as for finding a profitable accuracy, yes i have. I worked in a bookie's for 18months to test this system out against regular punters. I can honestly say that over time, i backed more winners, more regularly and at higher prices than anyone who walked through that shop door.


Well regular gamblers are no real barometer of success in gambling matters, are they? When talking of accuracy, are we looking at strict first place winners, or are we accepting placed horses too? If the latter, there is an issue with our method since our intention was not to use an event chart to find the horse that finishes 2nd or 3rd, and subsequently we have the problem that the horse who actually won doesn't fit the significations of the planet we selected. My use of the term 'profitable accuracy' was a bad choice since when testing these methods, we should distinguish between winning a bet and making a correct prediction.

Quote:
What is the difference between a natal chart and a chart for the event? It's the same thing - the event chart is the birth chart for the race.


There is a big difference. If we ignore the natal chart, why not just use a chart for the moment we open our eyes in the morning and use that for each new day? Even legitimate 'event' charts like the solar return operate underneath the nativity, so something as fleeting as the chart for a race cannot supersede the nativities of all involved. It would be like me looking at my own nativity, seeing poverty then thinking I could set the perfect electional chart for winning the lottery and expecting to win the jackpot.
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john



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Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

By using a specific technique we approach astrology as ‘time as a quantity’, that is, we expect it to work once and then for it to work again, just as Newton would expect the apple to fall vertically to the ground.

For me, astrology works as ‘time as quality’, which has different layers (or amounts of quality) at any given time, so I would not expect one method to work each and every time.

So called prominent astrologers present talks and write articles to support and demonstrate a favoured approach or astrological technique. Not surprisingly examples are given that support this. We have seen impromptu charts provided by the audience during talks, and they don’t seem to work to the same extent, or they don’t support the issue being discussed. Obviously, examples are provided that do work. We then go away and use these ideas on charts we do know and again various levels of success are seen, unlike the examples seen at a talk or in an article.

What our little corner of sports astrology is doing is no different than what any other astrologer does in any other field of interest. The difference is that in other areas astrologers may look several times a year/month/week at a chart for a person/event/question, etc. We can do this several times an hour, so the issue of the same thing not working each time is more pronounced.

Our area of interest also takes us into the realm of either being 100% correct or 100% incorrect, we don’t try to be merely helpful, suggesting events are simply ‘meaningful’. The question of what is going on and techniques being used becomes critical.

I’ll leave this post here and will come back to more specific areas raised in other posts later, including what the techniques are showing, profitability, etc.

There are astrologers who have twenty years’ experience and other who have one year’s experience repeated twenty times. I know which category astrologers who look at our area of interest fall in to!


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ModWasp



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Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
My point is though, has it not been investigated rather thoroughly? I mean we are the point where we can say it is inconsistent at best, will more investigation make it more consistent? I also believe you shouldn't conflate activity on this forum with activity overall.


More investigation leads to knowing when it works better than at other times. I have made numerous points on this forum about it. The whole point about this forum is to discuss one's findings, is it not? We know, for example, that it doesn't work with whole houses, but we also know that it tends to work better on maiden and novice racing. Why do you think that is? I've given my own opinion on that several times, and there seems to be a general agreement that that is the case.

Conflate - to fuse into one entity; merge: I'm not entirely sure what you mean by that statement. Personally, i only ever use JAM. If there is a mergence of techniques, then that must show that said investigation is progressing, surely?

Quote:
Second, there really is no attack, thus no defence is needed.


Quote:
Also Frawley freely admits his method is not accurate at the end of his book yet he still sold it to the public, and for me, that shows his true intentions.


That sounds like a bit of an attack on Frawley to me. I'm not defending him and i've had my own run-ins with him in the past. But the tone of your original post was an attack on JAM. Of course you are entitled to your own opinion, but you haven't, as far as i can see, contributed anything to the investigation of this technique.

Quote:
Third, if we say for argument's sake that the method doesn't work at all, and any 'hits' have been completely by chance, these examples of it working have no real significance. If we say that it works, but we haven't fully figured it out, how would you differentiate between genuine hits and lucky picks?


That's an irrelevant argument because i have literally 1000's of winning charts. I record every single win. The chances of picking so many winners from charts on the basis of luck alone is minuscule.

Quote:
I said the 5th has no association with victory or success, and it doesn't, not by the angle it is the succeedent of nor by its trines.


I'm not sure that that has anything to do with finding the signifying plant for a winning horse.

Quote:
Well regular gamblers are no real barometer of success in gambling matters, are they?


And how do you know? I'm talking about 100's of regulars, many of them serious gamblers and a few of them big-money pros.

Quote:
When talking of accuracy, are we looking at strict first place winners, or are we accepting placed horses too? If the latter, there is an issue with our method since our intention was not to use an event chart to find the horse that finishes 2nd or 3rd, and subsequently we have the problem that the horse who actually won doesn't fit the significations of the planet we selected. My use of the term 'profitable accuracy' was a bad choice since when testing these methods, we should distinguish between winning a bet and making a correct prediction.


If you back a horse e/w at 20/1 and it places, you'll collect more than you would if you backed the winner at 1/2. Of course, finding the winner is what it's all about, but sometimes you have to know a little bit about how to gamble and the sport itself. The simple idea of gambling on horses is to make a profit. If you make a profit, you're a winner.

Quote:
to find the horse that finishes 2nd or 3rd, and subsequently we have the problem that the horse who actually won doesn't fit the significations of the planet we selected.


These are some of the very issues that need more investigation, as pointed out in previous posts.

Quote:
It would be like me looking at my own nativity, seeing poverty then thinking I could set the perfect electional chart for winning the lottery and expecting to win the jackpot.


The chances of winning the lottery are nearly 14,000,000/1. If we have a 12 horse race, logic says that you should have a 12/1 chance of picking the winner. But it's not, because some horse are better than others which is reflected in their odds. If you look at the nativity for a particular horse, then you would have to start looking at the charts for the jockeys, the owners, the trainers, the handlers etc...the list is almost endless. That would be impossible to achieve for one race let alone the 40 or so on an average saturday. With that in mind, i'm afraid that we are now left with the next best option - the chart for the event. It's not a fool-proof system but it's the best that we have and some of us here try our best to find out more about it.

Quote:
There is a big difference. If we ignore the natal chart, why not just use a chart for the moment we open our eyes in the morning and use that for each new day? Even legitimate 'event' charts like the solar return operate underneath the nativity, so something as fleeting as the chart for a race cannot supersede the nativities of all involved.


Ah, it's possible that, to quote:
Quote:
I also believe you shouldn't conflate activity on this forum with activity overall.

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ModWasp



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Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What our little corner of sports astrology is doing is no different than what any other astrologer does in any other field of interest. The difference is that in other areas astrologers make look several times a year/month/week at a chart for a person/event/question, etc. We can do this several times an hour, so the issue of the same thing not working each time is more pronounced.

Our area of interest also takes us into the realm of either being 100% correct or 100% incorrect, we don’t try to be merely helpful, suggesting events are simply ‘meaningful’. The question of what is going on and techniques being used becomes critical.


Bullseye.
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Konrad



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Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
More investigation leads to knowing when it works better than at other times. I have made numerous points on this forum about it. The whole point about this forum is to discuss one's findings, is it not? We know, for example, that it doesn't work with whole houses, but we also know that it tends to work better on maiden and novice racing. Why do you think that is? I've given my own opinion on that several times, and there seems to be a general agreement that that is the case.


I think that more investigation leads to knowing something better if you have more solid foundation than the multitude of highly subjective variables that Addey's method uses. How are you isolating factors when in a single race you could make a good argument for 5 or 6 of the horses' names fitting that significator?



Quote:
Conflate - to fuse into one entity; merge: I'm not entirely sure what you mean by that statement. Personally, i only ever use JAM. If there is a mergence of techniques, then that must show that said investigation is progressing, surely?


Due to your answer here, I don't think I was very clear in what I was saying was being conflated. It was in response to:

Quote:
But i think this method still needs some degree of investigation - and that's something only two or maybe three of us actually do on this thread.



Quote:
That sounds like a bit of an attack on Frawley to me. I'm not defending him and i've had my own run-ins with him in the past. But the tone of your original post was an attack on JAM. Of course you are entitled to your own opinion, but you haven't, as far as i can see, contributed anything to the investigation of this technique.


No, it is no attack on Frawley, it is a statement of fact. Tone is also very difficult to gauge in writing since its interpretation is often entwined with the position of the reader. To suggest I am attacking something is to suggest that I am invested in its failure, or in disproving it. Neither is true.

Your last point there is moot. Just because you haven't seen something, doesn't mean it hasn't happened, and your view is no more valid than mine because you take the time to post your predictions and results on this forum, and I don't. I worked with Addey's method for a year some years back, and also variations of it involving other points in the chart. My conclusion was that I couldn't predict winners with any consistency and that the results are so difficult to test since the transmutation of a planet's natural significations into a horse's name is too subjective to be applied rigorously. This is my point, and my questioning is aimed at seeing if there is a way to deal with these issues and thus improve upon the ability to pick winners.

Quote:
That's an irrelevant argument because i have literally 1000's of winning charts. I record every single win. The chances of picking so many winners from charts on the basis of luck alone is minuscule.


That still doesn't really solve the problem I put forward. The only way to get past it is to prove consistently that one can pick the winner, and this is something that is not being done as this thread itself proves, and you yourself admit.


Quote:
I'm not sure that that has anything to do with finding the signifying plant for a winning horse.


Well it should since we are looking for the one who will have success in that moment.


Quote:
And how do you know? I'm talking about 100's of regulars, many of them serious gamblers and a few of them big-money pros.


I know because the vast majority of people who gamble lose more than they win.


Quote:
If you back a horse e/w at 20/1 and it places, you'll collect more than you would if you backed the winner at 1/2. Of course, finding the winner is what it's all about, but sometimes you have to know a little bit about how to gamble and the sport itself. The simple idea of gambling on horses is to make a profit. If you make a profit, you're a winner.


Yes, absolutely, but taking any notion of gambling out of it since this is about astrology, if we say Venus is the winner's significator and a horse with a martial sounding name wins, we can't claim accuracy there.

Look at it this way, if a jockey is in a period of time of great success via their broad time-lords, in a year that promises great success via their profected ASC and the lord of their year sits on the midheaven of the chart supported by benefics and in its own sign at the time of the race, do you think the fact that the 5th Campanus cusp first sextiles Venus and that there is a horse called A Whole 'Lotta Love in the field is going to override that?
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ModWasp



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Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I think that more investigation leads to knowing something better if you have more solid foundation than the multitude of highly subjective variables that Addey's method uses.


What are these variables? The method works by finding the 1st aspect from the 5th cusp and then taking it from there.

Quote:
How are you isolating factors when in a single race you could make a good argument for 5 or 6 of the horses' names fitting that significator?


This is one of the problems that we find. If the 1st aspect is to Mars for example, how do we distinguish between a tiger, an eagle, a warrior or something with red in it's name? This is where it comes down to the astrologer's skill at interpreting the chart.

Quote:
My conclusion was that I couldn't predict winners with any consistency and that the results are so difficult to test since the transmutation of a planet's natural significations into a horse's name is too subjective to be applied rigorously. This is my point, and my questioning is aimed at seeing if there is a way to deal with these issues and thus improve upon the ability to pick winners.


This is exactly what i have been saying on this here thread. My own point is why doesn't it work with consistency? And that is my current investigation.My thought on the matter is that Jupiter's current state may very well have some sort of influence at the moment. Or maybe it's the square to retrograde Pluto? There is obviously a reason behind why JAM isn't working particularly well at the moment. But that's not to say that it isn't working - as GB pointed out Handsome Dude won at 8/1 yesterday.

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That still doesn't really solve the problem I put forward. The only way to get past it is to prove consistently that one can pick the winner, and this is something that is not being done as this thread itself proves, and you yourself admit.


Can you rephrase your question please?

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Well it should since we are looking for the one who will have success in that momen


But it doesn't. Finding a horse who's significator is L12 seems to be a more important factor, because a horse is bigger than a goat. Planets on the 10th angle are important but according to Lilly, a horse race is a 12th house matter - Lehman's Rulership Book, page 118. If you use the 10th as the house of victory, as you suggest, (Victory is Mars, btw), then one would need to look at the turned 10th - the 9th - because a horse is a 12th house creature. And it is the horse that wins the race, not it's pilot, trainer, owner etc...

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I know because the vast majority of people who gamble lose more than they win.


Football betting is the single most profitable sports market for bookmakers, dogs 2nd and horses 3rd. Patrick Veich won over £10M in an 8 year period betting on horses. In his book 'Public Enemy No.1', he says that his best strike rate for any given period was at about 33% and this is a man who once placed £120k on a 100/1 outsider that won by 6 lengths over 7 furlongs. So to get to a strike rate of 1 in 3 is pretty good going by anyone's standards. The thing is with JAM, is that we know it's not 100% accurate at all times but there is no doubt that it greatly helps one's chances of making a profit over a period of time. And that was one of the findings i made when i had that awful job. I'm ok now, thanks for asking.

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Yes, absolutely, but taking any notion of gambling out of it since this is about astrology, if we say Venus is the winner's significator and a horse with a martial sounding name wins, we can't claim accuracy there.


That would depend on where Venus is. We have to take into account sign, house, aspects etc... As i stated above, the astrologer's own chart reading skill has a massive part to play.

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Look at it this way, if a jockey is in a period of time of great success via their broad time-lords, in a year that promises great success via their profected ASC and the lord of their year sits on the midheaven of the chart supported by benefics and in its own sign at the time of the race, do you think the fact that the 5th Campanus cusp first sextiles Venus and that there is a horse called A Whole 'Lotta Love in the field is going to override that?


That would depend on the current situation. And it's these very situations call for the need to engage brain. You are suggesting that a natal chart is preferable to read over the event chart. Yet Ryan Moore doesn't win every race, even when he's on the odds-on favourite for an in-form trainer and neither does Frankie who is a big race performer. How would you explain that? I would suggest that it's down to the horse on the day. But there are jockeys who seem to have a virtually empathic relationship with horses - these two are among them. And certainly AP had that, so there is something to be looked at in natal charts. Maybe you could be our man for that angle of investigation?
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