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San Remo Resolution / declaration

 
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 2908
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 6:27 pm    Post subject: San Remo Resolution / declaration Reply with quote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Remo_conference

elka on the qatar thread drew my attention to this chart.. apparently it is discussed in a more recent edition of the book 'mundane astrology' by baigent, campion and harvey..

i am curious if others have any knowledge or insight to share on this chart? apparently it is a key chart for understanding some, or much? of the dynamic in the middle east.. one of the key features of the chart is the saturn/uranus opposition in the chart..

this might be the correct chart.. hopefully elka can comment or confirm the validity of the chart.. it doesn't conform with the chart i get via solar fire.. i will save commenting until i get confirmation on the chart. thanks.

here is the corrected chart.. thanks elka! this is a byproduct of cedt - daylight savings time - april 25th... seems early for dst..



Last edited by james_m on Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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elka



Joined: 17 Apr 2011
Posts: 22

Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
so 11:22 met... could you do me a favour and give me the ascendant degree for this chart?...
i can see some obvious connections back to israel and saudi arabias chart off this chart.. i would be curious to know what was said about this chart

Here’s a copy of the chart from my book:


It has 21 Cancer rising...he quotes “Documents on British Foreign Policy 1919-1939 vol 8 (1st series), 1958. P 172-6” as the source.

There are about 5 pages of text on this chart [which would be difficult to reproduce here]. However specific to the main aspects he states that the chart reflects a situation which is inherently unstable...symbolised by:
(a) the opposition of Saturn (Virgo) and Uranus (Pisces) (b)Uranus /Pluto trine, tenacity and ruthlessness and from Mars military action...all shows the ease with which such revolutions adopt violent methods...(c) added to this, aggressiveness symbolised by Mars/ Sun opposition and (d) the popular religious idealism shown by the conjunction of Moon Neptune and Jupiter...in a negative aspect to the Sun.

He states that the Sun can be seen to symbolise firstly Britain and France who were responsible for this act of dismemberment.....and secondly those client leaders and states which took the European line.

He does refer to the Saturn Uranus cycle (referencing Andre Barbault ) in the section: Cycles in Practice, which I reproduced, in part, in the General Election thread and, elsewhere, he goes into great detail on how to approach all the phases of each particular cycle, beginning with the ‘seed idea’ of its conjunction. (I think Dane Rudhyar also took this approach)

This particular Saturn Uranus cycle began 1897: 27 Scorpio

I summarised some of his text in the Qatar thread:
Writing in 1984 Michael Baigent, referring to the ‘Master Chart’ of 1920: The future of the Middle East, so long as this pattern of 1920 remains, does not look hopeful. Before the end of the century there seems every likelihood of a war. A jihad perhaps. In January 1996 [planetary aspects] would suggest another Middle Eastern war with the secular revolutionaries fighting against the religious idealists... (A) Pluto transit which begins in November 1995 [would] indicate the emergence of a leader who is typified by an uncompromising religious mysticism, a new Mahdi or Prophet perhaps.....this leader could come out of Israel. Whatever disruption the (major transits between 1995 and 2000 will cause) the cycles will continue.....

[He then gives some ideas to solving the astrological pattern of 1920]

I then related the ‘major transits between 1995 and 2000' to:
In 1995 the CIA set up operations to overthrow Saddam Hussein with the complicity of Jordan, and infiltrated dozens of spies inside Iraq - the seeds, possibly, of 'The War on Terror', declared by George W Bush on 20th September 2001, in an address to a joint session of Congress. (14 Saturn/Gemini opposed to 12 Pluto/Sag)

This Pluto Saturn opposition was seeded in the conjunction of 1982.

The writer of the ‘Cycles In History’ website takes this view:
“IN 1982 FUNDAMENTALIST TERRORISM IS BEING SEEDED BUT IT WILL MAXIMISE AT THE HALF WAY POINT IN THIS CYCLE: In the seven developments we have listed we can see highlighted the key elements of the major political issue that dominates world politics today – fundamentalist terrorism – or viewed another way ‘the clash between American led economic globalisation and consumer democracy versus Al Qaeda represented religious. family and indigenous traditionalism’. Of course terrorist actions have been evident globally since the 1970s but the groups behind them had cited political rather than ideological or religious objectives. This now begins to change. In 1982 fundamentalism is in the background being seeded – the name of a file at the CIA perhaps but not a term used on television news programmes. But we shall see this issue surge ahead at the cycle out square in 1993 and get multiplied and amplified across the world after the 9/11 attack on the World Trade Centre which occurs precisely within six weeks of the exact date when this Saturn/Pluto cycle reaches its maximising opposition angle”.

This is just a snapshot view of one particular cycle but there are other planetary cycles existing within the pattern - this is the difficulty and complexity involved in political mundane astrology, which, as we know, does need to trace back to specific root chart(s)

As an aside point but relevant, the writer above points out the duality/clash between ‘ American led economic globalisation and consumer democracy versus Al Qaeda...’

It is well known in certain circles that Robin Cook, Labour Foreign Secretary from 1997 to 2001 wrote in a column for the Guardian four weeks before his death in 2005, which described Al-Qaeda as a product of a western intelligence:
“Bin Laden was, though, a product of a monumental miscalculation by Western security agencies. Throughout the 80s he was armed by the CIA and funded by the Saudis to wage jihad against the Russian occupation of Afghanistan. Al-Qaeda, literally "the database", was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahedeen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians...” ~ wiki

“There were no international terrorists in Iraq until we went in. It was we who gave the perfect conditions in which al-Qaeda could thrive” ~ Cook
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2005/aug/07/uk.labour2

The rest of the website article above, making passing reference to the CIA, [which I elaborate above when they went into Iraq in 1995] describes how the Saturn Pluto cycle plays out which I agree with and which culminates in the Declaration of War on Terror on 20 September 2001 at its opposition. A new cycle of Saturn–Pluto begins at the conjunction at 22 Capricorn in January 2020.

I think the above is an example in point, going back to the original idea in the Qatar thread, of the direct interference of the UK, France and the USA in the Middle East, which seems to be encapsulated in the 1920 chart of Baigent’s.


Last edited by elka on Sun Jun 18, 2017 2:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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elka



Joined: 17 Apr 2011
Posts: 22

Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mundane astrology should also take into account the solar and lunar eclipse phases and their seeded beginnings, relative to each separate Saros cycle. As each eclipse series can last over 1200 years and repeat every 18+ years, historical events can be examined in a narrow time period and in a larger cyclic context: cycles within cycles.

The specific one I have in mind is the August 1999 Grand Cross Solar eclipse [prior to the world changing events of 2001] which was seeded on 4th Jan 1639 with the Sun and Moon at 13*49' Capricorn - Saros Series 145 - coinciding with The Wars of the Three Kingdoms or the British Civil War.

This eclipse pattern has a total of 77 eclipses but periods that stand out are: specific dates in the mid and late 1700’s: the ages of American Independence and the French Revolution. In 1801, 4 months after the GB and Ireland Union, the eclipse phase came to 23 Aries.. [the 1801 UK astrology chart is still relevant in my view]

This year on 21 August 2017 we have this phase coming to 28 Leo of a total Solar Eclipse.

“First total eclipse on American soil since 1991 - first on the mainland since 1979 - first to sweep across the entire country since 1918”
http://www.eclipse2017.org/eclipse2017_main.html
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

elka,

thanks for a couple of good posts on this and mundane astrology! i hope you post more often! i have corrected the chart to 21 cancer rising.. i am curious what the data as provided in the 21 cancer rising chart that you uploaded - on the outer wheels... it appears to be a chart for the saturn -uranus conjunction, but not the 1982 one as you mention, but a much earlier one.. i tried to connect it to 1860s area when pluto was in taurus, but can't find a chart that matches the data on the outer wheel..

i do agree these outer planetary combos have great bearing on matters.. i am not convinced of the merits of the san remo declaration just yet, but i am receptive to its relevance.. as far as this combo of saturn-uranus is concerned, i would characterize it differently then the writer of cycles of history website - btw, do you have a link to this site? is it still in operation?.. and yes - this cyclic seed idea comes out of dayne rhudyars approach, which he summarized quite well in that little book of his i used to have on the phases of the moon, written in collaboration with his wife leah? as for this combo and the description : ‘the clash between American led economic globalisation and consumer democracy versus Al Qaeda represented religious. family and indigenous traditionalism’. - that is much too flattering on the one side! comsumer democracy, lol... i suppose he means corporatocracy rule, where corporations are allowed to overturn the concept of independent countries, making decisions without being under threat by this same globalism, that again only works for corporations in support of materialism - consumerism.. i guess i would flip it around to refer to this as the brittle saturn being challenged by any alternative view as represented by uranus.. of course religious fundamentalism would represent the saturn as well!

i think this combo - saturn-uranus is especially important more generally as i have come to witness in individual charts... the inability to merge these 2 energies is the cause for many conflicts between conservative, verses progressive or newer approaches to almost anything.. the 2 in opposition don't sit easily with one another..

as for the saturn/pluto conjunction of 1982 being the seed for the 911 event.. sure... this has been discussed by astrologers for some time! going on memory here, that conjunction was in late libra - which is close to where the natal mars is in the san remo chart.. this would lend more merit to the chart having greater relevance perhaps in so far as the greater emphasis of war that the west is responsible for in the middle east... nurturing al qaeda / isis hasn't helped anyone other then the military and financial industries as i see it.. it certainly hasn't helped the world one bit. and indeed we are coming up to a new saturn/pluto cycle in 2020 which i have discussed here at skyscript on other mundane astrology threads devoted to this conjunction..

again, there is too much to cover and respond to, in your posts!! and, i am presently working full time - wednesday to sunday and unable to comment as much as i would like... thank you again for the thoughtful and insightful views shared here!
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astralwanderer



Joined: 20 Dec 2012
Posts: 140
Location: Southwest England

Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:46 pm    Post subject: Middle East Mandate Reply with quote

I know this chart as the Middle East Mandate. It's probably the most important mundane chart of the c.20. The importance of Uranus' current transit of Aries is obvious. Surely Uranus' forthcoming passage into Taurus will be just as crucial conjunct the Mandate Sun, square Mandate Moon, presaged by opposition Mandate Mars.



Porphyry houses.
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Plato, Timaeus, 90.
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Location: vancouver island

Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks aw,

yes, the transits to the chart, in particular the uranus transit is relevant... for me, looking at transits, i always look back to the natal chart to see the relationships to other planets.. in this example of t uranus to natal sun - the opposition of uranus and saturn trine and sextile onto the natal sun.. so for me, the transit is more favourable, as the relationship between the sun to this opposition in the natal chart is favourable..

i was actually looking at this chart the other day and running a solar return to the chart. i wasn't sure what the correct ascendant was - i am still wondering of the validity of summer time on april 25th - but i did note mars on the descendant in the solar return for this chart this year.. mars is at 2 gemini, while the solar return ascendant is 6 sag... meanwhile the opposition in the san remo chart is 4 mutable, so it is strongly triggered by the solar return this year... this year is a sun profection year, so we look to see where the sun falls in the solar return - 6th house, and how it connects with the other planets in the 2017 solar return.. this is a system i use which i have picked up from traditional astrology and my present understanding of the importance of these 3 charts for prediction work - natal chart, solar return chart and profection chart and what they collectively tell us..

actually the transit of pluto on the descendant of the natal chart, which also coincides with the area of both the upcoming saturn/pluto conjunction and etc is also interesting here... i tend to not put too much emphasis on pluto, but enough to wonder how it plays into all of this as well.. essentially pluto in the solar return chart is on the descendant of the natal chart here... but more importantly is the place of the moon in the 2017 sr chart - 12 aries.. it conjoins mercury/venus.. the moon rules the 8th house in the solar return chart, while sun rules the 9th..

i guess it depends on how much one wants to emphasize a particular chart.. for me, the san remo chart is essentially a saturn/uranus opposition chart which could be set to a number of locations.. i would be curious what it looks like set to different locations, but i am still muddling thru with solar fire on ubuntu, lol... the program shuts down on me when i least suspect it! i haven't been generating as many charts as a consequence!!

lots to contemplate here astrologically... so much overlaps too.. when looking at the middle east dynamic, one can look at the recent events related to qatar/saudi arabia any number of ways, although i would be less inclined to look first at the san remo declaration chart... but, to each their own i suppose..

ps - the nodal axis has recently gone thru early mutable too, right where this saturn/uranus opp in the san remo chart is.. the eclipse data will also strongly emphasize this as a consequence... and of course the solar return square of mars to nodal axis is further grist for the mill in this area too.. and as already noted - t uranus is squaring onto the natal ascendant and in opp to this same mars - so lots of surprises and some of them very combative, it would seem..
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astralwanderer



Joined: 20 Dec 2012
Posts: 140
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Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi James - I am running SF on Linux Mint/Ubuntu. I know this is off topic, but if you want to get in touch I might be able to help. I've got it to run pretty faultlessly. I don't really even think about it these days.

AW
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Plato, Timaeus, 90.
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astralwanderer



Joined: 20 Dec 2012
Posts: 140
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Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:41 pm    Post subject: Solar Returns - 2018, 2019, 2020 Reply with quote

Hi - the SRs for 18, 19 and 20 look interesting. Neptune right on the ascendant, MC and descendant respectively. Pluto and Saturn prominent too. Returns set for San Remo.
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks aw!

actually, i have a new computer with an updated ubuntu on it and solar fire 7 as well.. i have yet to transfer over to that, but if it acts up like it does on this dual boot computer, i will contact you... my friend set it up for me, and i have been too busy to unplug this one!

thank you!
james
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