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Referendun at france

 
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yuzuru



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 1392

Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 9:33 am    Post subject: Referendun at france Reply with quote

Does anyone know the exact time the referendun at france, to aprove or not the European Constitution, is going to begin ? Looked at a LOT of newspapers and not one could give this little peace of information
Thanx
Yuzuru
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Sungem



Joined: 27 Feb 2005
Posts: 206
Location: Australia

Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polls open 0600 GMT and close at 1800 GMT;

...from under photo box halfway down the page at:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1939069.stm

This was for the presidential elections earlier in the month. I would assume the poll booth opening times remain the same.
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Kim Farnell



Joined: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 256

Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Voting was set to begin at 1000 GMT in Saint-Pierre and Miquelon, islands off Canada's eastern coast with a population of just 7,000. Other overseas territories start voting later in the day and voters in France have their say on Sunday.

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2005-05-28T092736Z_01_SCH742752_RTRUKOC_0_EU-FRANCE.xml

Polling stations open at 8 a.m. local time Sunday (0600 GMT) and close in Paris and Lyon at 10 p.m. (2000 GMT). A firm results is expected by 11.30 p.m.(2130 GMT). http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/05/28/france.eu/

Kim
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yuzuru



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 1392

Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 11:46 pm    Post subject: Referendun at france Reply with quote

Thank you, Kim and Sumgem, for the information.
I am still in doubt about St Pierre and Miquelon, because I have found disagreement in the information... Janus doesnīt know the time zone, in Encarta enciclopedia it says UT -3:30, in astro.com says -2h

If anyone is interested, St pierre is close to 56w11, 46n47

I will try Paris chart, even because they both have an cancer ASC, at least I think Confused

I think Battle besiegement is probably the best choice, because France opposition has the advantage, to convince people to let things as they are. The pro-constitutions have the problem of winning. The "No" people donīt have to win, just canīt lose :-)

If this is correct, the "Yes" is Cancer and "No" is Capricorn (edited: but the castle is the 4th - virgo, see sueīs comment)
Saturn is already in the second house, in cancer, Moon is in 9th of foreign affairs, in Aquarius. There is mutual reception.
Saturn as an heavier planet has an advantage.
Saturn is in detriment, moon not. Moon makes an aspect to venus, an benefic, but venus is cadent in the 12th and canīt be of much helping.

I will try an more elaborate analysis later, but it doesnt seen much good to the "Yes", because they donīt seem to have enough power to overcome the natural fear of this kind of change.
Y


Last edited by yuzuru on Sun May 29, 2005 1:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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Sue



Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 945
Location: Australia

Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Yuzuru,

I am not really sure of your reasoning for a 'battle beseigement' chart. My understanding is that this type of chart is used when someone is attempting to take away something that the other person/team has. But it appears that you have used the 1st/7th houses anyway - Cancer/Capricorn. In a battle beseigement chart the 1st and 4th would be used.

I am not disagreeing with you, just not sure where you are coming from.
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yuzuru



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 1392

Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 1:04 am    Post subject: castle besiegement Reply with quote

Ah, it was just an idea... I am also doing a ingress chart for france (quite interesting by the way) and trying to find a good date for "fundation of france"

About the 4th house, you are right. I was in a hurry, and confused the subjects, as the 7th is usually the other side.

I really donīt know if this have any relevance, after all is hard to look for a similar situation, after all, is a country almost becoming another country.

I will try a few analysis later, I am in a little hurry yet.
Thanks for the correction, you know, altzheimer is kicking earlier than expected. Cool
Yuzuru
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yuzuru



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 1392

Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 6:28 am    Post subject: Castle besiegement Reply with quote

My first idea for castle is that:
1- the analogy with a fight
2 -"defense" has a lot of advantage in this questions, the challenger has the onus of proof, the holder only has to ask people to let things as they are.
3 - the analogy between the castle, and the home land, an important factor in this kind of decision.

As I donīt have the original work of Bonatti crying I will try with the B. Brady to sports...

The match criteria doesnīt hold true.
Both significator are cadent. Holder in his own sign (+1.5)
Holder combust (-2.5)
Holder aspects MC (+2)
challenger has dignities in 4th cusp by triplicities (+0.5)
Significator of holder, mercury, tranlates from saturn to jupiter (+2)
Final Score: Challenger= +0.5 Holder= +2.5
Holder wins.
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yuzuru



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 1392

Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 6:55 am    Post subject: Simple Battle Reply with quote

In a simple battle model:
Moon (Yes vote) and Saturn (No vote)
Moon in 9th (foreign affairs) sepparating from conjunct Neptune
Moon and Saturn in mutual reception
Uranus afflict the 10th house of government, the ruler of govern separates from 5th house (embassators ?)
Saturn is void, peregrine and in detriment, going to 2nd house. Moon is cadent in her face.
There is an collection of light by Pluto (the masses ?) of moon and venus, but pluto is cadent, and Pluto is in a place which none of them have dignities.
Moon is antiscion 4th house cusp. Mercury (4th ruler) is antiscion Saturn. Pluto is antiscion 7th house cusp.
Moon is separating from 4th house and from Jupiter (government)

In this case I really donīt see if there is a clear winner, sorry
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yuzuru



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 1392

Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 7:37 am    Post subject: Ingress Chart Reply with quote

The ingress chart for Paris, 2005, has an Leo ASC, so is valid for the whole year.
There are two planets who seen real strong: moon lord of 12th conjunct ASC, and Mars, lord of 10th and 5th, in the 7th of treaties and enemies. Moon in her house, mars in last degree of exaltation. Sun, lord of ASC in 9th.

It seens that the french people feels like they are trapped in a prison or by secret enemies The main issue this year will involve foreign affairs or religion (9th house). The government is involved with ambassadors in treaties or wars (7th house). Government is exalted, but will loose his power real soon. Mercury, universal significator of contracts and texts is very high in the map, but retrograde and under sun beans.

Jupiter (ruler of 9th) and Venus (ruler of 4th) are in mutual reception, an interesting symbol for a country who is going to "merge" with a lot of others. Jupiter and mercury are both retrograde and applying opposition, without any reception. Venus is exalted, but when change signs will be combust.

If Saturn is the treaty, it is the 12th of secret enemies and prisons, retrograde and in detriment. Sun is quad Pluto not a good aspect.

It doesnīs seem a good year for this kind of change, with so many significators retrogrades or leaving their exaltations.
My guess is that means another "no"
Yuzuru
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yuzuru



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 1392

Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 4:16 am    Post subject: Results Reply with quote

As we know, the referundun in France was a 55% victory to the "no". I will try this analysis again in the next referendun.
But as the ingress charts are similar for capitals in europe, I think this result will repeat in other countries.
Y
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yuzuru



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 1392

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 7:07 am    Post subject: Referendun at Netherlands Reply with quote

New Referendun starts at 7:30 am local time, amsterdan, ASC - 9Cancer52, Ic in virgo, L1 is moon, L4 is mercury.
L4 in domicile (+1,5)
L4 combust (-2.5)
L4 seeks aspects to Jupiter (confuse to calculate, but I guess is around +1)
L1 e L4 aspects the MC (+2)
Dignity of L1 in the 4th house (+0.5)
L1 +2.5 L4 +2
This is too close a match to give any conclusion, as I aproximate several numbers.

As the moon is an angle, and mercury in cadent 12th house, and moon sextiles mercury, I think the Yes has some chance, but untill know is close behind.
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