skyscript.co.uk
   

home articles forum events
glossary horary quiz consultations links more

Read this before using the forum
Register
FAQ
Search
View memberlist
View/edit your user profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Recent additions:
Can assassinations be prevented? by Elsbeth Ebertin
translated by Jenn Zahrt PhD
A Guide to Interpreting The Great American Eclipse
by Wade Caves
The Astrology of Depression
by Judith Hill
Understanding the mean conjunctions of the Jupiter-Saturn cycle
by Benjamin Dykes
Understanding the zodiac: and why there really ARE 12 signs of the zodiac, not 13
by Deborah Houlding

Skyscript Astrology Forum

nicolas maduro / venezuala
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Mundane Astrology & World Events
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3366
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

noon chart for juan guaido

it is interesting, even if it is a noon chart... transiting nodal axis square guaidos /saturn/pluto conjunction in this time frame, and of course the next couple of years has a real focus on saturn/pluto given the upcoming conjunction in 2020 where it will be square guaidos natal position.. guaidos mars/pluto square is a dangerous aspect to have in a public person who is in a position to be charged for treason... i wonder how this all unfolds..

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mari



Joined: 15 Mar 2009
Posts: 55
Location: Paris

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A video from NTN24 Venezuela channel broadcasting the moment https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10ttUxLGkDk



Unfortunately, they give times for a number of cities, but not for Caracas. But you have La Paz time, as on this screen shot, which is the same as the Caracas time. You can check with the time of the other cities.

The time is 12:03 (or maybe 12:04 because the time goes off the screen at the very final moment when he is declared president)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mari



Joined: 15 Mar 2009
Posts: 55
Location: Paris

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And from the same channel, the moment Guaido takes oath as a president.
1:50 PM Caracas (as in previous case I took the La Paz time which is the same as in Caracas)
On the upper left corner you can see "in vivo" (on live).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzKTg8A5Aao

UPD. Double check: A Venezuelan journalist covering the rally breaks the news on twitter: https://twitter.com/perezvalery/status/1088130974683197441 You can change your timezone directly to Caracas time: the tweet is from 13:46 local time.
I will though use the 13:50 time (as on the video) because that's the moment when Guaido finalises his speech with the oath and swears and the rally explodes with applause.


Last edited by Mari on Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:14 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mari



Joined: 15 Mar 2009
Posts: 55
Location: Paris

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So that's what I get now (James, are my ASC OK now?)

Inauguration, I added 4 min to the exact time:



And Guaido:

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mari



Joined: 15 Mar 2009
Posts: 55
Location: Paris

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, now we have two beautiful charts with the exact time.

Some preliminary thoughts before getting to any interpretation:

1. It's clear to me that the first Maduro presidency chart expired on Jan 10 when he took oath again.

2. What we have now is two "competing" presidency charts. That's an important point to bear in mind: Guaido's oath looks kind of fake, but so is actually the Maduro's despite its more formal look : his whole election was highly contested at home and internationally, the inauguration itself wasn't regular, apparently the constitutional prescriptions were not respected, many countries simply didn't recognize this inauguration and even cut diplomatic ties with Venezuela. Maduro's second presidency has never been a simple regular presidency.

Actually ever since Jan 10 it was a developing situation/crisis, so

3. The two charts are strongly related.

So here we are, we have a sort of two presidents: both presidencies are fake in their own way, both are contested/recognized by a part of international community and Latin America, both control some state institutions and/or powers (like Guaido having the Parliament support and Maduro having the executive branch), etc.

*Interesting point: Maduro took oath after the solar eclipse, Guaido after the lunar one. I would be curious about what would Tom tell us about these lunations.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mari



Joined: 15 Mar 2009
Posts: 55
Location: Paris

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Few first glances:

1. What strikes me in Maduro's oath chart: the eclipse is on MC and on the day of Guaido's oath Mars was squaring it. Now Saturn is coming on it (interesting, what would it mean?).

2. What strikes me in Guaido's oath chart is Venus/Jupiter conjunction in Sag. Venus/Asc and Jupiter ruling the 11th/Good Daimon: wow, the support, the dreams come true. Do you see, that this Venus separating from Jupiter is just on the antiscia of Saturn in Maduro's oath chart (Saturn ruling MC)?

I just like it so much: this Mars ruling the ASC/Maduro's oath and this Venus ruling the ASC/Guaido's oath. Did you notice that Maduro's oath was followed by a military parade (not to mention the protests on that day)? And Guaido, a rather handsome man, taking oath amidst huge crowd, immediately welcomed by an important part of the int community. That's pretty much Venus carried by a Jupiter in Sag to me.

Coming back to that Venus. On Jan 23 Venus is finally separating from Jupiter and coming to Saturn's ant., but this whole Venus/Jupiter transit lasted a little moment, at least several days, with Venus approaching and then with moving along Jupiter. In Maduro's oath chart DSC/enemy is in Libra, Jupiter rules the 9th and the 12th (+ 4th by exaltation). Pretty telling. So over these 10 days after Maduro's oath and before Guaido's oath (Venus coming to Jupiter) there must have been some preparations, some negotiations with foreign partners (which explains how many countries recognized him immediately, this support was negotiated before) and when everything was ready (Ven/Jup conj) Guaido did it (Ven separating).

3. Outlook. If we just stay with these Mars and Venus: Mars is coming now on the Asc of Maduro's oath chart and will go through the first house. Mars in Aries. I guess there's no need to say more.
But Venus, separated from Jupiter, is going to ingress into Capricorn on Feb 4.
I suppose it may be a tough time for Guaido and his supporters until this time. Maybe a feeling that Maduro is not going anywhere and Guaido is going nowhere or to jail.

But Venus comes to Cap where it'll join Saturn (MC both charts). They receive each other and guess where? In 1° off the Jan eclipse (Saturn also ruling that eclipse). Feb 18th 16°46' Cap.
At that very time (Feb 14th) Mars will make its ingression into Taurus, Venus' domicile, the place of its detriment.

So things are probably not so good for Maduro and probably not so bad for Guaido. We'll see.

These are my first impressions just with a quick glance, not saying that's it.
I looked the transits here because the situation itself is an ongoing crisis and transits are about just few weeks from now.


Last edited by Mari on Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:52 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mari



Joined: 15 Mar 2009
Posts: 55
Location: Paris

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
marjorie orr shared a time for maduro off a birth certificate - via astro.com.
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Maduro,_Nicolas


Not so fast. Apparently, there are two charts of Maduro.

Castellanos add:"All this definitely inclined to assume as valid the time 21:03 , however Nicolas Maduro himself gave me the data of 5pm. He told me that this information had been given to him by his mother".

Here: this astrologer speaks about these two charts: https://laedbpdala.wordpress.com/2017/06/11/apuntes-astrologicos-58-5-6-2017-carta-natal-de-nicolas-maduro/

As to Juan Guaido:

I so far found time 10:15 AM http://critica24.com/index.php/2019/01/15/astrologia-conozca-la-carta-natal-de-jguaido-un-lider-no-un-mesias-por-leonardo-diaz-esperolomejor/ Not clear at all, where this local astrologer took the time.
Another Venezuelan astrologer Nestor Sanchez gives the time of birth 10:45 AM (Asc/MC are the same Libra and Cancer) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Jd0qs3ZvfA
And the third Venezuelan astrologer, Enriquetta Bruni, using Guaido's chart with Asc in Libra http://www.pictame.com/media/1956799360008501197_2111618320 The time is apparently again not the same, but very close to 10:45
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3366
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mari,

thanks for all the work you have put into this... clearly it helps if you speak spanish, which i don't, but it appears you do! i am busy the next few days, but hopefully will find some time to comment by sunday-monday..


Last edited by james_m on Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3366
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mari,

regarding the data for maduros birth time which you challenge in your last post... i get the data from astrodatabank which is usually pretty reliable..

https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Maduro,_Nicolas

in the source notes you can read it all...

regarding the topic of guaidos birth time... the 1015, or 1045am times both give libra rising - 8 degree difference.. the solar return has pisces rising in both for the present year.. i slightly favour the 1015am time for the connection between the ascendant in the solar return and his natal moon, if the time is accurate.. both give this as a 12th house profection year - so mercury and the position of mercury is very important... as it happens if the times are close - 1015am or 1045am - this puts virgo on the descendant which is not as favourable for this year...

personally i favour the 903pm time for maduro for the connections to his natal chart here at present which i could explain if need be...

it is interesting marco rubio, one of the prime architects of this usa regime change idea for venezuala was a child born from cubans who fled cuba in 1956 while the usa installed dictator batiste was in power... it is ironic rubio wants to inflict on the venezualans what his family was trying to escape.. i may have more to say in the next few days..
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mari



Joined: 15 Mar 2009
Posts: 55
Location: Paris

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
.. i get the data from astrodatabank which is usually pretty reliable..

https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Maduro,_Nicolas

in the source notes you can read it all...


Of course. And you can notice that Venezuelan charts are provided to Astrodatabank by a Venezuelan astrologer named Eduardo Castellanos (I gave a link to his blog). And as you said one can read it all in notes: a birth certificate shown on tv + Maduro personally gave him another time, as the time given to him by his mother.
Well, I personally prefer the mom's time given by Maduro to Castellanos (Asc in Taurus). First of all, because anything could happen with the birth certificate (especially given that the context of its publication was controversial), but mum won't be 4 hours wrong. I do trust mums.
Secondly, because of his personality and appearance: a somewhat dark skin complexion, a huge fancy for the army, eternal martial stance, etc fit Venus in Scorpio way better than Jupiter in Pisces. Not to say that Jupiter in Pisces as an Asc ruler would him a certain charisma and popularity he desperately lacks.

Quote:
i slightly favour the 1015am time


I have an UPD: it's definitely 10:45 AM. Time given by Guaido's wife to local press: "Juan Guaidó was born at 10:45 a.m. on July 28, 1983" https://www.caracaschronicles.com/2019/01/29/meet-fabiana-rosales-the-eloquent-telegenic-activist-who-married-guaido/ If it's of any interest to you, you also have her exact time too. (Venezuelans look to be *really* into astrology to specify such details in press articles).

I'm OK with 10:45.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3366
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks mari! that article was a good score! what is an UPD?

that is a good article and quite fascinating how they have provided the details on the times of both of them!

here is a good article on juan guaido..

https://grayzoneproject.com/2019/01/29/the-making-of-juan-guaido-how-the-us-regime-change-laboratory-created-venezuelas-coup-leader/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mari



Joined: 15 Mar 2009
Posts: 55
Location: Paris

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
quite fascinating how they have provided the details on the times of both of them!


Venezuelans seem pretty much into astrology, numerology and all kinds of predictions. When I was looking for the birth data, I've seen lots of local press publications - not the most serious ones of course, but still - on it. Also remember than we have Chavez time from an astrologer who claims to have this data from the time when Chavez contacted her after his first failed coup to get him out of trouble. Also Chavez calling his mum on TV live to ask her for the time because there was a question from audience. And so on. (that's one of the reasons why I prefer the time Maduro gave himself for a consultation, as they take it seriously he surely gave the time he himself thought was the most reliable)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mari



Joined: 15 Mar 2009
Posts: 55
Location: Paris

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
both give this as a 12th house profection year - so mercury and the position of mercury is very important... as it happens if the times are close - 1015am or 1045am - this puts virgo on the descendant which is not as favourable for this year...


Now, I had a minute to take a look at his solar return.
I may be wrong, but it seems to me that when judging annual profections, you just take the lord of the domicile and forget all the rest.

So the annual profection of Asc is in Virgo, which gives us Mercury and Venus as time lords (Venus is in Virgo in both in radix and in the return chart).

Importantly, Venus is the ruler of the natal Asc. In radix Venus has its - and +. -: Venus doesn't aspect neither Asc, nor its ruler Mercury, not good at all. Besides, Venus is in the 12th house, which is both weak accidentally and not cool for life. BUT Venus is in its term and triplicity, which is fine, she is aspected by Mars in the 10th (even with a sort of weak mutual reception by triplicity if you consider Mars as being a participative ruler of the Earth triplicity), by Jupiter and by Moon.

Now, if we suppose that the Asc of the solar revolution chart is really in Pisces (I usually consider the charts of revolution only when I know where the person was, but let's make an exception and consider he was somewhere near), that makes Venus even more important, as she co-rules the Asc of the solar revolution chart.

The solar revolution Venus keeps important natal features: Venus is in the same sign, Venus keeps some essential dignities, but instead it gets rid of some of its natal problems: this time Venus is angular and aspects the Asc, which is very good.

The rest is pretty clear: MC of the solar revolution is in Sag. A strong Jupiter in Sag rules the natal MC by exaltation (as well as almost all of his radix by disposition). This Jupiter made its revolution in Nov 2018. That coincides more or a less with Guaido's rapid gain in visibility.
On Jan 8 Venus entered Sag, then passed through the natal Jupiter, then started its course into conjunction -> the chart of his oath on Jan 23, where we again see this Venus carried by the strong Jupiter. And again, in the oath chart Venus rules the Asc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3366
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mari,

if you read william lillys book 2 - christian astrology, or ben dykes translations - in particular book 3 of persian nativities, you will see that profections were used to inform in a number of ways.. one of them is via the profected ascendant and whether it lands is in the 6th, 8th or 12th for the year... all these houses are considered unhelpful.. the 1st and 10th houses are considered fortuitous... he was elected to his present role in the national assembly in 2015 when the profection ascendant was gemini - 9th house.. at present i believe guaido has had his assets frozen and not allowed to leave the country... that sounds more 12th house dynamic here than not.. i have much more to say, but i am getting my thoughts in order before i comment on the charts.. cheers james
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mari



Joined: 15 Mar 2009
Posts: 55
Location: Paris

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
if you read william lillys book 2 - christian astrology, or ben dykes translations - in particular book 3 of persian nativities, you will see that profections were used to inform in a number of ways


Thank you, James. I have read Abu Mash'ar in Dykes translation and Valens (in both translations), which means that I have my idea of of the ways to use annual profections.
And the fact I have read Abu Mash'ar and Valens is precisely the original reason why I do not use the annual profections merely as a moving point ruled by one planet.

Anyway, I haven't omitted in my message the problem of Virgo being in the natal 12 house. Just as I pointed out its angularity in the solar return chart.

As to how the the 12th house topics play out (given that a co-ruler of the natal Asc is in it), I just thought that it was anyway obvious to anyone to speak about them in length. Starting with the fact the Guaido lives in a place kept secret, basically hiding himself when he is not on a public meeting, his brief arrest, etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Mundane Astrology & World Events All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 2 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
. Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

       
Contact Deborah Houlding  | terms and conditions  
All rights on all text and images reserved. Reproduction by any means is not permitted without the express
agreement of Deborah Houlding or in the case of articles by guest astrologers, the copyright owner indictated