skyscript.co.uk
   

home articles forum events
glossary horary quiz consultations links more

Read this before using the forum
Register
FAQ
Search
View memberlist
View/edit your user profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Recent additions:
Can assassinations be prevented? by Elsbeth Ebertin
translated by Jenn Zahrt PhD
A Guide to Interpreting The Great American Eclipse
by Wade Caves
The Astrology of Depression
by Judith Hill
Understanding the mean conjunctions of the Jupiter-Saturn cycle
by Benjamin Dykes
Understanding the zodiac: and why there really ARE 12 signs of the zodiac, not 13
by Deborah Houlding

Skyscript Astrology Forum

nicolas maduro / venezuala
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Mundane Astrology & World Events
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3366
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

great! then you will know that the profection lord has relevance and the place of the profection ascendant back to the natal chart has relevance too! i got a different impression reading your comments...

juan guaido has an opinion piece in the nyt.. i note his use of the word bloodshed... this highlights what i think is an important feature of guaidos chart - his natal mars... it is the planet rising before the sun, so a lead indicator of sorts, and often times a vocational indicator... the fact it is opposed directly by pluto in the solar revolution in combination with the fact he has a mars/pluto square natally, highlights to me this persons receptivity to violence as a means of getting results... i might view it differently if his mars was in a different sign, or not set up as the malefic of the opposite sect and etc. etc., but i do believe this person is quite okay using the suggestion of violence or bloodshed as a means to an end...

my other comments will be coming soon enough!@

Opinion
Juan Guaidó: Venezuelans, Strength Is in Unity

To end the Maduro regime with the minimum of bloodshed, we need the support of pro-democratic governments, institutions and individuals the world over.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/30/opinion/juan-guaido-venezuela.html?module=inline
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mari



Joined: 15 Mar 2009
Posts: 55
Location: Paris

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
then you will know that the profection lord has relevance and the place of the profection ascendant back to the natal chart has relevance too! i got a different impression reading your comments...


I don't see where and how I gave you an impression that I don't know that the lord of the domicile of the profected sign doesn't have relevance. This gets somewhat ridiculous. Confused
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3366
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mari wrote:
Quote:
then you will know that the profection lord has relevance and the place of the profection ascendant back to the natal chart has relevance too! i got a different impression reading your comments...


I don't see where and how I gave you an impression that I don't know that the lord of the domicile of the profected sign doesn't have relevance. This gets somewhat ridiculous. Confused



Mari wrote:

I may be wrong, but it seems to me that when judging annual profections, you just take the lord of the domicile and forget all the rest.


there you have it mari.... perhaps you forgot you said this? ps - i am pointing out 2 things, not one.. you only acknowledge the 1..
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mari



Joined: 15 Mar 2009
Posts: 55
Location: Paris

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
there you have it mari.... perhaps you forgot you said this?


No. What I noticed is that

Quote:
you just take the lord of the domicile and forget all the rest


Which is your right if it is so. Mind I was polite not to suppose that you may not know any other aspects of the technique, I didn't even think that it could be so. I only supposed that in your practice you may find it useful to judge mainly the domicile ruler, why not? I also said that my observation may be erroneous, why not too? And I said it, as can be seen from the context, only to introduce my own analysis that goes beyond it and uses more factors (just as it is advised by Abu Mash'ar whose book you proposed me to read).

How can it possibly mean that "that I don't know that the lord of the domicile of the profected sign doesn't have relevance"?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3366
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maybe you'd like to talk astrology instead??
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mari



Joined: 15 Mar 2009
Posts: 55
Location: Paris

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, anyway...Now that we both know that we both know everything we both must know... We can also put this misunderstanding aside and go on with the main subject which is the crisis in Venezuela.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3366
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i am having trouble finding much of any personal bio on maduro.. i wanted to play around with the 2 times available for him - the 5pm and the 901pm times.. i spent most of last night running data and don't have anything conclusive to say on this, but feel mostly stymied as a result of having very little info on his personal life.. i didn't find any data on his first wife - Adriana Guerra Angulo, but did examine the day chart for his 2nd wife - Cilia Flores.. of course the idea of marrying someone older goes with cap on the descendant, which fits with the 901pm chart.. however, mercury in the 7th of the 5pm chart also works for 2 marriages.. i didn't really find anything that i felt was conclusive, one way or the other..

it will be easier to comment on juan guaido when i get round to him, which might be sooner then later given the lack of info on maduro..
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mari



Joined: 15 Mar 2009
Posts: 55
Location: Paris

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, there are also 3 sisters of Maduro and his 3 step-sons (three sons of Cilia Flores).

With Asc in Cancer: the 3d is in Virgo and the 11th in Taurus, while the 5th in Scorpio.

With Asc in Taurus: the 3d is in Cancer and the 11th in Pisces, while the 5th in Virgo.

Again, I feel Asc/Tau fits way better IMO (with cusps of the 3d and of the 11th in fertile signs, Jupiter being in Pisces, barren Virgo, with Mercury in Sag, rather on the cusp of the 5th, etc)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3366
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mari,

i am trying to understand your thinking here...forgive me if i don't! is english a 2nd language for you? i am curious.. thanks..

you mention why you think the ascendant in taurus fist better... i would like to break it down here... children relates to 5th and 11th house according to you and 3rd relates to siblings? is this how you see it? thus you mention maduro has 3 sisters and you think this fits with cancer on the 3rd, better then virgo on the 3rd? do i have this correct?

also - you mention 3 step sons from his marriage to cilia flores.. how do you see step children factored into a chart? do you assign a particular house for step children and if so, which house??

so far as i know, maduro only has 1 son - Nicolás Maduro Guerra..
i used a day chart for his son to examine the cross aspects to the fathers chart.. i didn't find anything conclusive in this overlay although maybe on balance it slightly favours the 903pm chart for these reasons.. the important jupiter-saturn opposition lands on the angles in this chart.. i believe jupiter is a natural signifactor for children and this planet is on his ascendant.. mars, the ruler of the 5th is conjunct the midheaven, highlighting a 5th house event.. pluto is conjunct the venus-neptune conjunction found in the 5th house sign - scorpio..


with the 5pm chart, one strong connection is the venus conjunct taurus ascendant.. perhaps you can see more?



mari - if you are able to find any info on when maduro and his first wife separated, i would be very curious... again, i can't find any details on much of anything on his personal life..
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mari



Joined: 15 Mar 2009
Posts: 55
Location: Paris

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
is english a 2nd language for you? i am curious.. thanks..


Yes.

Yes, the the 3d siblings, the 5th Maduro's children, the 11th his step-children (the 5th from the 7th).

I'd rather see fertile signs on the cusp of his 3rd and 11th house (Cancer and Pisces) and the barren one on the cusp of the 5th (Virgo) than vice versa.

Also, I like the idea of Jupiter being in Pisces and Pisces being on the cusp of the 11th, because that brings us not only fertility, but masculine signification: and Maduro not only has 3 step-children, but all three step-children are boys. With the cusp of the 11th in Tau, we would have a fem sign and both rulers signifying girls (Moon and Venus).

Again, coming back to Virgo (the 3d if Asc/Can, the 5th if Asc/Tau): the sign is feminine, but barren; Mercury fem/mas, not fertile; Mercury in Sagittarius, not a fertile sign, but being ruled by a Strong Jupiter can grant children, rather boys or a boy (Sag). I think this picture rather fits Maduro's only son than his three sisters.

Of course, it can't be the only argument, but here too I prefer Asc in Tau.

Re: transit charts Maduro radix/son's birth.

Well, yes, Jupiter is a natural benefic giving children. If we take the Asc in Tau possibility, than we have the 5th in Virgo and Mercury in Sagittarius, Jupiter having disposition of Mercury. A strong transiting Jupiter trining the natal Jupiter (the ruler of Mercury) could fit too.

As to transits to Asc (in both cases), I'm not sure we should consider them: Maduro's not a woman, it was not his body who was giving birth. MC could be more meaningful for men, I guess.

Anyway, we'd need the solar and lunar returns to analyse properly the birth of his son IMO.

As to the outer planets, I can't say anything, I don't use them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mari



Joined: 15 Mar 2009
Posts: 55
Location: Paris

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
again, i can't find any details on much of anything on his personal life..


So far me neither. And I don't have much time now, but if I find something, I'll post it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3366
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mari,

thanks for sharing your thoughts here.. do you know if any of the astrologers you have accessed, have a specific birth time for Leopoldo López? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopoldo_L%C3%B3pez

as for 11th as step children - i haven't heard of that before... in the hellenistic books i seem to recall the 5th or 11th can function as a house of children.. i can't cite a reference though.. do you have a reference for your 11th as step children idea?

as for the solar returns of the 903pm and 5pm time... i have looked! again, it is a mixed bag.. i am thinking it might be a good idea to start a couple of new threads, so that the focus is more specific.. venezuala - maduro and venezuala - guaido.. that way all the ideas on these 2 people can be examined on single threads devoted to them.. so, with this in mind, i am going to start this and continue on with maduro for the time being.. i will also start a thread on guaido which we can work on as well..

finally - here is an article that i thought was quite good in being fairly impartial on it all, while laying out the situation and challenge the venezuala and the world more generally face at this point in time.. venezuala seems to capture this well here..

Venezuela’s collapse is a window into how the Oil Age will unravel
https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/venezuelas-collapse-is-a-window-into-how-the-oil-age-will-unravel-f80aadff7786
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mari



Joined: 15 Mar 2009
Posts: 55
Location: Paris

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
as for 11th as step children - i haven't heard of that before... in the hellenistic books i seem to recall the 5th or 11th can function as a house of children.. i can't cite a reference though.. do you have a reference for your 11th as step children idea?


Yes, I believe that in Hellenistic astrology the 11th, as a Good Spirit (hopes, help and all good stuff), can signify children - just as Jupiter, Venus, MC, the lot of children, the ruler of the lot, the lord of triplicity of Jupiter and so forth (and of course the 5th!).
(Now I don't remember much step-children, it may probably come along with a bad quality spouse, the good one being a young virgin from a good family Lala Happy )

But here I derived it from DSC: the 5th from the 7th, spouse's children. Much like in horary or the 8th signifying the debt or inheritance (the second from the 7th). As to this particular derivative house, I have no quote in head and I doubt it exists, although Petosiris here makes a suggestion of this kind (that is 11th signify children because this is derived):

Quote:
Notice that Ptolemy and Valens use the V and XI for children as well (following Petosiris). For XI is V from the VII.


http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10018

Anyway, the use of the principle of the derived houses was pretty common and, I'd even say, intensive from the Late Antiquity to the Middle Ages: taking any point (say, a planet or especially a lot) and set it as a derived ASC. What we especially see in texts is the use of these derived houses from Fortune or Spirit to spot whether the malefics or benefics are in angular or cadent houses from Fortune/Spirit (personally I find it works nicely) and which houses, things like that. Can also be used this way when assessing annual profections.
I also recall the use of the derived houses from the child's chart to make a prediction for the father if he didn't have his birth data (but I can't find any link now) and so on, and that's how it later landed in horary.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
petosiris



Joined: 08 Oct 2017
Posts: 141

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saturn indicates step-children and adoption in Hellenistic astrology.
1. It makes sense since Saturn indicates management of things belonging to others such as property and land.
2. Scientific data of cinderella effect and kin selection prove that preference of biological children can't be simply due to cultural phenomena, adoption has the obvious drawback of not continuing your genes.

As for XI indicating your own children or stepchildren, the sources are somewhat ambiguous, obviously Ptolemy 4.6 suggests that it can indicate your own children, but Valens 9.2K says it indicates the children of the wife, because it is V from VII.

Note that there is slight chance that all children were assigned to the XI because of the joy of Jupiter - generally the main ruler of children in Hellenistic astrology.

However, the X and V appear more often than the XI and IV in Hellenistic sources, which makes me think that both XI and IV come from derivative places. Obviously, one can't be certain.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mari



Joined: 15 Mar 2009
Posts: 55
Location: Paris

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
do you know if any of the astrologers you have accessed, have a specific birth time for Leopoldo López?


29 Apr 1971, Caracas, 05:00 am Asc Aries

I don't know the source, but apparently many local astrologers use it:

https://www.astro-ideas.com/articulos-/leopoldo-lopez-mendoza-su-carta-natal/
https://www.noticiaportatil.co.ve/2015/05/predicciones-de-beatriz-mogollon-de-01.html
https://carta-natal.es/astrodata/famosos/carta.php?id=379895

and so on.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Mundane Astrology & World Events All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 3 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
. Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

       
Contact Deborah Houlding  | terms and conditions  
All rights on all text and images reserved. Reproduction by any means is not permitted without the express
agreement of Deborah Houlding or in the case of articles by guest astrologers, the copyright owner indictated