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North Korea
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Mark
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Joined: 30 Sep 2005
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Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rocko wrote:
Quote:
I don't think I need to apologise.


I never suggested you should. Just reminding you and anyone else stopping in here that there are more subtle ways to express disagreement. That is it really. Lets not make a mountain out of a molehill.

Rocko wrote:
Quote:
I wasn't trying to upset.


I'm sure not but on media like this without a chance to see a person in the face its much easier for misunderstandings to occur and offence to be taken. So treating everyone with a modicum of respect is the way to go. As I said though lets keep this in perspective and move on.

Rocko wrote:
Quote:
I personally have been waiting for this moment and fully expected either Uncle Kim to do something stupid, which he has, or the USA to bomb him.


Yes. Me too. I think anyone who has really studied eclipses knows from experience that planets crossing the eclipse degree can be major trigger points in the outer world. Evidence if ever it was needed that eclipses have immense astrological significance!

Mark
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amelia



Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 395
Location: Wales

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
So just to be clear your suggesting 00.00.01 hours at the start of the 9th or 23.59.59 at its close?

The former would give a Scorpio Moon disposited by Mars in its domicile of Scorpio


Yes, that's right 00.01 with Scorpio Moon

Quote:
Just a bit confused by your idea this date was elected by International agreement? Campion states the date was simply the date of a proclamation of a government being formed in Pyongyang.


Sorry, yes that was misleading; there was no formal agreement What I concluded was that the de facto division effectively created a separate northern state by default and the proclamation merely confirmed this to the people. The time is therefore not definitive.
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amelia



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Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've just noticed something I didn't spot before (wood & trees!).

This week coming NK's progressed Uranus and natal Jupiter are in exact opposition. Given that we also have an applying Uranus -Jupiter opposition in the sky, this is pretty mega and obviously represents what has been building since the country formed.
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amelia



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Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And here, for completeness, is my equivalent forecast for US- (written last Christmas).

Quote:

It looks as if the leadership may be more settled into the traditional mould by September, even if that mist/fog still makes policy development slow.

But that does not mean that the surrounding conditions are more settled. Indeed there is a very risky phase in September. However, we need to consider the financial charts to determine whether the problems are debt and budgets and/or recessionary , and to consider other countries before we attribute all problems as internal to the US. We must not exclude natural disasters from the picture either.

Despite more communication or technology challenges in December, the month is generally more stable than the rest of the year and may even end on a relative high for the leadership.


Significators ( Sibly chart)

ongoing:
SO p tri SO and NP cnj SO p squ ASC

Sep/Oct
PL opp JU p squ MA p
JU t opp ( UR cnj VE p sxt MO squ PL qnx NP)
SA opp MA squ NP
Mo P sxt ME p
JU opp VE p
JU cnj SA qnx MC p

Nov/Dec
UR squ ME
UR tri MO p SQU NP
then JU tri SO tri SO p
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Rocko



Joined: 05 Apr 2013
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Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Noting that I said to myself that I should be quiet for a few days, if you are right Amelia about a progressed opposition between Uranus and Jupiter in a North Korean natal chart then that is bad news.

This can give a real unfounded Euphoric Mentality that, especially in the Stock Markets, takes Investors on a trip, that ONLY ends badly.

Even as t.Mars moves off Trump's ascendant, Mercury sits there all this week. The whole thing is getting pretty complicated.

And he's a Gemini ??

H
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nipoleon



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 89
Location: Las Vegas

Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a small point I'd like to make here.
North Korea is +8 hrs. 30 min. from UT. I originally did the chart with my own astrology program but got a different result on astro.com.
I was confused until I checked with World Clock.com.
Time zones around the world can be a little tricky.
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amelia



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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
There is a small point I'd like to make here.
North Korea is +8 hrs. 30 min. from UT. I originally did the chart with my own astrology program but got a different result on astro.com.
I was confused until I checked with World Clock.com.
Time zones around the world can be a little tricky.


Yes. NK is different from SK. I set mine for 9hours difference because I was basing it on the separation from SK ( and I liked the chart!!!). But if you were using a timed internal proclamation then I guess the NK time zone would be more appropriate.
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Mark
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nipoleon wrote:
Quote:
Time zones around the world can be a little tricky.

They sure can. We have all been there believe me. Especially when you get to far distant and rather quirky locations like North Korea.

Mark
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Location: vancouver island

Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark wrote:

So just to be clear your suggesting 00.00.01 hours at the start of the 9th or 23.59.59 at its close?

The former would give a Scorpio Moon disposited by Mars in its domicile of Scorpio which I think many astrologers would feel is a more comfortable fit for this secretive and pugnacious state than a Sagittarius Moon.
Mark


amelia wrote:

What I concluded was that the de facto division effectively created a separate northern state by default and the proclamation merely confirmed this to the people. The time is therefore not definitive.


mark and amelia,

a few thoughts... as there are so many times available to choose from, i think one is walking down a briar patch with no clear way in it all.. it is another reason i favour ingress charts..

the problem with characterizing a country a particular way - this country has moon in scorpio as opposed to moon in sag - for instance - just doesn't cut it for me.. unless one knows the country and it's history in a deep way, i think one is skating on very thin ice with these ways of saying which chart is the more likely..

reading material for one's consideration - https://www.thoughtco.com/why-north-korea-and-south-korea-195632

and craig murrays latest... https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2017/09/deterrence-believers-shoud-cheer-north-korean-bomb/

photolog in the dprk from aug 24-31st from eva bartlett.
https://ingaza.wordpress.com/2017/09/04/photos-from-a-week-in-the-dprk/
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Mark
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

James_M wrote:
Quote:
mark and amelia,

a few thoughts... as there are so many times available to choose from, i think one is walking down a briar patch with no clear way in it all.. it is another reason i favour ingress charts..

the problem with characterizing a country a particular way - this country has moon in scorpio as opposed to moon in sag - for instance - just doesn't cut it for me.. unless one knows the country and it's history in a deep way, i think one is skating on very thin ice with these ways of saying which chart is the more likely..


Tom over on the traditional forum would hug you for this! Ok maybe not a hug but certainly an appreciative pat on the shoulder. It is kind of ironic as I am supposed to be the trad and you are the one arguing for Aries ingress charts! Firstly, I do think Aries ingress charts are very useful. So no argument on that front.

However, it doesn't have to be an either or does it? We can have our cake and eat it.

Its also a bit of a myth that ingress chart delineation is monolithic. Aries ingress chart delineations are not all the same. As you know there arose various approaches to determining the Lord of the Year in the tradition which was a key factor in any ingress. But I agree at least we have one chart we can all agree on in an ingress.

Nevertheless, with all the competing times and dates why use a chart for a country timed to a key historical event? There is actually a deeper philosophical issue at stake here I have seldom discussed for fear of derision which is my view that mundane astrology is really divinatory like all other branches of astrology. Finding a chart for a country that seems to respond to transits, progressions, profections is part of the astrolgers' process to get inside a chart. Rather like adopting our own personal ''toolbox'' of techniques we work with. For example, I like fixed stars you use midpoints. As a lover of history another factor I find part of my 'process' is to study the history of a country in some depth. This hopefully, gets me into the zeitgeist of a key moment in time.

Sometimes, you can have a chart that has next to no historical support but just simply works! That is not to say we dont try. I think finding a date we can believe in is important to making the chart delineation work. I found this researching a national chart for Scotland. Maybe I stumbled on hidden astrological degrees a country relates recurrently to over time. Or maybe its just a chart that astrologer can resonate with psychologicaly. Its hard to explain. I probably, need to unpack this argument in an article one day!

Your point that national charts seem to fix a sense of national identify is true. Its why I have always argued countries do not have birth moments like nativities but numerous key moments in time they can resonate to. Actually, I dont support singular 'national charts' at all! Your kind repeating back to me a position I put forward here several years ago in an exhaustive, last man standing debate with Thomas Gazis on this thread. Thomas is an advocate of the opposing view which I dub 'The Highlander' school of thought in regards national charts. He argued that national charts are like nativities and there can only be one valid chart/time to work with. I strongly disagreed and still do!

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6847

In my opinion Bill Sheeran's article on national charts ' The Observer Observed' is the most philosophically profound piece ever written on national charts.

http://www.radical-astrology.com/articles/articles/mundane/index.html

Mark
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Last edited by Mark on Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:55 pm; edited 10 times in total
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Rocko



Joined: 05 Apr 2013
Posts: 524

Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with James that getting the right Natal Chart for a Country is difficult.

As stated above Wikipedia does say clearly that DRK came into existence on the 9th Sept 1948.

And you'd feel that as a Totalitarian State that has to show up clearly. In fact the DRK is so unusual that the Natal Chart must be too.

I've gone for Midnight. Uranus Rising. Pisces Midheaven. Virgo Sun. Scorpio Moon. Algol on the 12th Cusp.

Saturn in Leo at 28°43' !!!! which generates two helpful indicators.

1/ Saturn in Leo does make for real mean Son's of Dogs.

2/ The Eclipse fell right on this point.

If you use Midday then Saturn falls in the 9th, and I'm beginning to get your drifts.

I know Eclipses are often used to rectify Charts so this has to be a classic. You just need to work with what has been coming out of the DRK around the Eclipse and now with the Mars transit. And even Mercury SD.

I'd say it is more of a 3rd House Communication - STAY AWAY from Us !! Leave Us Alone !!

Is there also something in the fact that the Ascendant changes sign very early in the DRK's life and I read that they invaded the South in 1950 ?

Uranus on the Ascendant isn't and easy thing to control.

An awful lot of information to be looked at and perhaps the progressed charts too.

Can we find information about when Kim Jung Ill took over a few years ago. That sort of thing should jump out of a progressed chart.

Good work Ye All. Getting interesting now. Just got to find where his Nuclear Arms Programme is hidden (in the chart).

H

PS How did Amelia's Mars transit go and how is the Mercury transit going ?
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Mark
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rocko wrote:
Quote:
I agree with James that getting the right Natal Chart for a Country is difficult.


Take a look at my reply to James which I think you missed. I suspect its not your style but at least its food for thought!

Mark
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Rocko



Joined: 05 Apr 2013
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bleeding Heck I tell you that the DRK is going to be Trump's Bete Noire. As it clearly is already.

He's got his Ascendant / Mars combo around 26°-29° Leo. And the Eclipse right in there around 28°50' Leo.

And till Oct 2018 Saturn and Uranus are going to be activating that area.

But Heh Trumpy don't you know that the DRK's Saturn is at 28°43' Leo ?

A classic Personality Clash.

Whatever rattles Trumpy's Combo wakes up the DRK's Saturn.

I've known a few people with Saturn in Leo and they all have been really nasty. Mean people.

And Huston we do have a problem as the Eclipse will be reactivated time and time again over the next 2 to 5 years.

And we are into mutual destruction aren't we ?? The US destroys the DRK's Saturn but that'd have to cost Trumpy big time too.

Some good News is that once Mercury has left the Eclipse Point the next Visitor is Venus around the week of the 17th Sept.

H

PS Which Natal House rules defences and weapons ?
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Mark
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rocko wrote:
Quote:
I've know a few people with Saturn in Leo and they all have been really nasty. Mean people.


Its true that placement doesn't have a good reputation with Saturn opposing its domicile and sign of joy in Aquarius. Quite a few dictators have this in their chart. But since Saturn spends over two years in each sign it seems very sweeping to write off everyone with that in their chart as mean or nasty.

Notwithstanding your anecdotal experience of Saturn in Leo you cant define a person by just their Saturn placement.

Mark
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Rocko



Joined: 05 Apr 2013
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK I've read thru your post on the Natal Charts.

Historically I'm pretty sceptical about Astrology. I think there is an awful lot that is complete "Tosh". And I try to stick to what I know.

For example Uranus, Neptune and Pluto are hugely powerful in Astrology and they ONLY "appeared" last Century. What came before ? A lot of mistakes ?

I think there will be ONLY one chart but finding it can be very hard. Perhaps with the DRK the Soviets were keen to get Home and so the DRK was born when they decreed.

That sort of thing can be clear. But you'd think The Stars would drive the birth time or the Country would prove to be a basket case.

All good stuff.

Good Old Eclipse right on my Ascendant ??

H

PS As to your point on Saturn. I've learnt to be wary of people with Saturn in Leo. Again that might be a Personality Clash at work. See Ya tomorrow.
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