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Skyscript Astrology Forum

Chart Signatures for Lying and Deception?
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sabumnim



Joined: 22 May 2017
Posts: 163
Location: Canada

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surely, I am entitled to an opinion, after 40 years of being a paid astrologer, and 10,000 interpretations. I don't expect much from you, but please spell my name right.

thanks,


Sabumnim

p.s. all future posts from you will be ignored.
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waybread



Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 934
Location: Canada

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You do not need to attempt to demean people who disagree with you. Obviously we are all entitled to our respective opinions. Surely we can have a good debate based on the astrology itself without personalizing differences of opinion. Whether you respond or not to my or anybody's posts is, of course, your call.
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waybread



Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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Location: Canada

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought it would be interesting to look at the Mercury placements of well-known people who were/are serious liars. Their charts are all at the Astrodienst Astro-DataBank in Placidus houses. 5 degree orb, wider for sun and moon.

Bernard Madoff: Rodden AA

Mercury retrograde in Aries in the 9th, closely square Pluto, conjunct moon in Taurus.

Donald Trump: Rodden AA

Mercury in Cancer in the 11th, square Neptune.

Richard Nixon: Rodden AA

Mercury in Capricorn in the 4th. Conjunct Jupiter and Mars in Sagittarius, opposite Pluto in Gemini

Silvio Berlusconi: Rodden A

Mercury retrograde in Libra in the 1st. Conjunct sun

John Dean: Rodden AA

Mercury in Libra in the 9th. Conjunct sun, trine Jupiter, trine moon

John Ehrlichman: Rodden AA

Mercury in Aries in the 4th, square Pluto, square Jupiter, trine Neptune. (Venus, Uranus in Pisces but no hard aspects)

Philippe Pétain Rodden AA

Mercury in Taurus in the 5th, conjunct sun, Pluto

Mata Hari: Rodden AA

Mercury in Leo in the 9th, conjunct sun, Uranus, Mars


That's all for now. Maybe celebrity liars have different Mercury placements than ordinary people do.
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waybread



Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 934
Location: Canada

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are some other people from the Astro-DataBank with a reputation for honesty and high principles.

Every American school child learns about Honest Abe and Washington and the cherry tree (which probably never happened, but Washington never said that it did: it was attributed to a biographer.)

I included Charles Darwin because of the enormous courage and painstaking research that it took for him to publish his work on evolution. The outlines of his theory of natural selection still hold up today, although parts of the theory have since been modified due to subsequent research.

Karen Silkwood was a famous whistle-blower who reported safety violations at the nuclear power plant where she worked. She became contaminated with radiation and died in a traffic accident en route to meet a newspaper reporter, both under suspicious circumstances.

Ralph Nader is a prominent consumer and product safety advocate.

Abraham Lincoln: Rodden rating B

Mercury in Pisces, conjunct Pluto, square Neptune, trine Uranus

George Washington: Rodden AA

Mercury in Aquarius in the 10th, trine Neptune, trine Jupiter. Sun in Pisces

Charles Darwin: Rodden DD

Mercury in Pisces in the 3rd, square Saturn-Neptune, partile trine Uranus

Karen Silkwood: Rodden AA

Mercury in Pisces in the 5th conjunct sun and Venus

Ralph Nader: Rodden A

Mercury in Pisces in the 3rd, conjunct Mars, trine Pluto

Of course, many people with a reputation for honesty have Mercury in some other signs. My point being that no astrological signature is absolute.
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pankajdubey



Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1215
Location: Delhi

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark wrote:
Pankajdubey wrote:
Quote:
Interesting, Evangeline Adams is listed under Fraud/ Liar in Astrodatabank because she lied about her age in Census data !!

Gadbury is another one .
Joe Biden too.

Now, for Saints to show up please Wink

Well of course if you include any indiscretion its going to take things to
reductio ad absurdum. I was looking more for people who develop a habitual character pattern of lying and deceiving others. In some instances they fabricate major details about their lives or quite fundamental facts or go out of their way to mislead and deceive.

Frankly, if we start including politicians this list could get quite long....Wink

I do have an interesting example from outside that sphere closer to our own. But I am busy preparing for a conference this weekend so that will need to wait until next week...

Mark


By this time surely @Mark the OP would have finished his conference presentation and also the feedback and queries from the conference.
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
Posts: 1211
Location: California, USA

Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am adding five more A or AA rated ADB charts to the Fraud list with commentary on signatures the charts have in common. The total will then be nine charts. Bakker's chart was posted today, and the other four charts will be posted within another day or so:

Jim Bakker, TV evangelist indicted for fraud and conspiracy
Avi-Ben-Abraham, charlatan (assumed identities) and investment scam artist
Djalma Cavalcante, astrologer and fraud (assumed identities) embezzler
Martin Frankel, Stock trader, operated one of the greatest financial scams in history
Ivar Kreuger, International swindler on a grand scale

Although these charts aren’t calculated in the tropical zodiac, signs have minimal importance compared to planetary conjunctions and natal chart angles. As in the previous four charts, the 9th harmonic is extremely important in noting conjunctions of planets. Although the 9ths are mentioned in western astrology as early as Firmicus, nothing has been discovered about their use. This is why the role of the 9ths is so interesting in modern astrology. The charts are being posted here:

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?p=103925#103925
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 2897
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks therese

here are 4 of the 5 charts off astrodatabank - adb - the only one missing is a chart for Djalma Cavalcante..

https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Bakker,_Jim
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Ben-Abraham,_Avi
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Frankel,_Martin
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Kreuger,_Ivar

quick observations - mercury and mars in hard aspect with one another which conforms to what has been discussed in this thread.. jim bakker and Martin Frankel... Ivar Kreuger has the two square by sign only.. jim bakker and ivar kreuger charts emphasize the mutable signs - sag, pisces and gemini with these planets.. Avi-Ben-Abraham has the mars/neptune conjunction ( in scorpio) pointed out in this thread by a few posters.. he also has mercury in sag..

2 of the charts have a mercury/saturn conjunction.. one has a mars/jupiter conjunction. 3 of the charts have moon in libra, one with moon in scorpio.. 3 of the charts are sun in water sign, 1 is sun in cap.. 2 charts have nodal axis in hard aspect to saturn.. 2 have nodal north node in cap..
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
Posts: 1211
Location: California, USA

Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two more chart wheels have been posted with additional notes:

Martin Frankel
Ivar Kreuger

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?p=104212#104212

Extensive biographies are in the ADB links given in the preceding post.

EDIT 8 October: The final two fraud chart wheels have been posted:

Avi Ben-Abraham
Djalma Cavalcante (astrologer!)
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