skyscript.co.uk
   

home articles forum events
glossary horary quiz consultations links more

Read this before using the forum
Register
FAQ
Search
View memberlist
View/edit your user profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Recent additions:
Can assassinations be prevented? by Elsbeth Ebertin
translated by Jenn Zahrt PhD
A Guide to Interpreting The Great American Eclipse
by Wade Caves
The Astrology of Depression
by Judith Hill
Understanding the mean conjunctions of the Jupiter-Saturn cycle
by Benjamin Dykes
Understanding the zodiac: and why there really ARE 12 signs of the zodiac, not 13
by Deborah Houlding

Skyscript Astrology Forum

Can Venus in its fall essentialy afflict the outcome?

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Horary & Electional Astrology
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Eternal_Wanderer



Joined: 08 Oct 2017
Posts: 3

Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:46 pm    Post subject: Can Venus in its fall essentialy afflict the outcome? Reply with quote

Hello all.

I am an astrologer, however when it comes to horary, I am still learning to see the whole picture.

I have a love-related horary chart, on which I could use a second opinion. I will appreciate any input from your side and I am thankful in advance!

My horary question was “Will we be a couple in next 12 months?

Please, correct me if I am wrong. I am Mars, he is Venus. We both are in my 11th House with Venus being the one who applies with conjunction to Mars.

So, to me on the first glance it looks like YES, since we have:
- Querent’s and Quesited’s planet in applying conjunction.
- Both co-significators, t.i. The Sun and the Moon are in applying trine.

BUT, there are few aspects that bother me and would love to hear your opinion on it. Will truly appreciate it! So…

1) Venus and the sign that she is in – Venus is in Virgo, in a sign of her fall. Therefore the conjunction with Mars to me doesn’t seem that promising for the outcome of the chart… Does Venus here automatically creates friction between Mars and Venus and it results in negative answer for this horary question?

2) What also caught my attention is the negative influence of Saturn on both planets, Mars and Venus by a square.

3) There is also Neptune that could be somehow damaging to the outcome of the chart or would at least afflict the chart with illusion.

I read that any natal planet conjunct the horary chart's angels could play a role when looking for the outcome of the horary, so maybe it is worth also to mention following:
- My natal ASC is in Scorpio.
- My natal Pluto conjuncts less than a degree to the ASC of this horary chart.

I added also the Essential Dignities Report for more detailed understanding of planetary positions.





As I said – I will really appreciate any input (either in a form of an answer or in a form of link suggestion) from your side. Thank you in advance!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Breeze



Joined: 16 Oct 2016
Posts: 222

Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi EW,

Have you seen my thread " Will I get married in 2018" where we have discussed Venus and Mars with forum members? My thread is just before your thread on the forum page. There, you cld. See how we predict Venus and Mars, and also comments for Neptune by Tanit.

With regards to Saturn, well... it might be an collection of light. And I think this wld. Depend on the contex, and the house Saturn rules. I am a student of horary, so let's hope experts will comment on Saturn.

And I just wonder, if you'd like to post your chart so that we cld. provide more answers . If yes, you can add the chart via tinypic.com

Cheers
_________________
Breeze
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
felipeastrologo



Joined: 02 Apr 2015
Posts: 225

Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We need context for Venus, Mars, the Sun and the Moon as well.

Is this a person you already know? Is he reachable or a platonic love? Is he Tom Cruise? If so, do you know Tom Cruise personally or you only dream of being with him?

Regarding conjunctions and receptions, we cannot generalize, like almost everything in astrology. In many types of questions and in some rare specific love/relationship contexts receptions do not matter.

In most, 99% of relationship charts, receptions matter. The fact that it is a conjunction or not makes no difference. This is, after all, a *relationship* chart and the only factor that describes how one party *relates* to another is receptions.

Receptions is a "hammer", dignity is a "screw driver", aspects is a "shovel", they serve different purposes. We cannot determine "feelings" for the other person using aspects or dignity. And feeling for the other person comprises 99% of what matters in most relationship charts. Essential dignity shows us how a person feels about him/herself or his/her capabilities/qualities. Aspect shows the potential encounter.

In this chart, generally speaking, Mars is disappointed in Venus. Depending on the context that alone reveals the outcome of such encounter. You may end up as a couple (conjunction) but there will be disappointment from Mars towards Venus and from Venus towards herself. Where it goes from there is usually clear enough.

If the context determines that the Sun should be taken into consideration, the fact that the Moon is in the Sun's detriment is not favorable either so that trine may well happen but the Moon will dislike and reject what the Sun brings to the party.

Neptune shows there is something Venus is not aware of in the situation.

If you have been married for years and you are going through a rough period, such receptions are common and do not indicate any changes in the relationship necessarily. For a new relationship that has not become stable or for a relationship that has not started yet such receptions are not favorable and are crucial to determine how successful the "couple" can be and/or the challenges they will face right from the start.
_________________
--
Felipe Oliveira
http://traditionalmedicalastrology.org
http://medicalastrologer.net
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Eternal_Wanderer



Joined: 08 Oct 2017
Posts: 3

Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:01 am    Post subject: Thank you so much! Reply with quote

Felipeastrologo, thank you for this insight! Especially to enlighten things around how the context plays out in horary and what receptions, dignities and aspects mean in horary! Thank you!

He is someone whom I have met three times so far, all three times it was unexpected and looked like it would be somehow set up (example: he entered the room the same moment I wanted to leave and we met basically at the entrance etc. I couldn’t make better timing myself even if I wanted to.) He seems like a nice and well educated guy, I also like the way he looks Wink but we haven’t spoken personally.

Again, massive thank you for this answer! It is far more than I expected and it helps a lot not just for this horary chart but for further charts also! Thumbs up
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Eternal_Wanderer



Joined: 08 Oct 2017
Posts: 3

Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Breeze, yes, I just read it after I posted my Q. It helped a lot, however, I still wanted to see, how people will comment the Sun-Moon aspect in this chart and possible, if anyone would find the ASC degrees of any importance in this chart. But felipeastrologo wrote an excellent answer and I immediately started to seeing the chart from whole different perspective.

With “if you’d like to post your chart …” did you mean my natal chart?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
felipeastrologo



Joined: 02 Apr 2015
Posts: 225

Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're welcome Enternal Wanderer.

There's another important reception point in this chart. Whenever Venus is in Virgo, Mars is in Cancer or the Moon is in Capricorn we have to pay attention to see if it is a day or night chart and then look at the triplicity rulers.

Here we have mixed receptions toward Venus: triplicity and fall. The implications are observable: there is some positive feeling and there is disappointment as well. And since Virgo is mutable those feelings will keep bouncing like a tennis ball for Mars. Now I like, now I don't like… and so on, and on… One can also observe and learn that Fall is stronger than triplicity.
_________________
--
Felipe Oliveira
http://traditionalmedicalastrology.org
http://medicalastrologer.net
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Breeze



Joined: 16 Oct 2016
Posts: 222

Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I read felipe's post this morning Thumbs up

No, I mean the horay chart for your this question. If it is already included, I can not see it Sad I can not see anything actually if it is not loaded via tinypic.com Shocked )
_________________
Breeze
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 447

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Crush" charts tend to pop up more frequently when Venus and Mars are aspecting, particularly the conjunction. I agree with what has already been said regarding the essential dignity.

Breeze's chart is similar but flipped. In this case, Venus is the one applying, so it is less work for you than for Breeze. Normally, Venus is generally the feminine person and Mars the male, and so even though this suggests he may approach you through the applying conjunction, you are also Mars, the more aggressive planet, and so you may still have to give a lot of encouragement or maybe even be the one to make the first move.

A trine between the luminaries is generally a very favorable aspect, which I think is emphasizing the mutual connection. However, the Sun rules the 10th, it rules the hour and is in the 11th. To me, it seems more favorable to either be friends or in some way a work connection, particularly since there are humane signs involved, which are communicative signs (versus water signs, which are moist and fruitful and emphasize romance). 11th house people can be our allies in our work. This does not necessarily mean it is positive for romance.

Additionally, traditionally Venus conjunct Mars in the 10th, particularly where Venus is in a bad place, emphasizes that this could somehow be damaging to your reputation. Is this a work situation? I have Venus conjunct Mars in Aries in the 10th in natal and I have had this issue either occur or almost occur three times at work. Men tend to fall in love with me (or I with them) in the workplace and then it becomes this huge gossip issue and I end up quitting to get away from it all. Aries is a different energy than Virgo, but I would still worry about this, especially since it is in a sign of Mercury, which emphasizes communications in some way. I avoid romantic entanglements at work and I would recommend this to anyone who has this in natal or something like this in another type of relationship chart. Since the Sun rules the hour of the chart and also the 10th, I think this is also emphasizing 10th house entanglements.

If it isn't a work situation, this could occur through some other 10th house means, such as publicly broadcasting something on the internet, etc. The 10th deals with our public image, but it can also deal with other things - only you will understand the symbolism since you know the background.

Look especially at the influence of Saturn here too. I would really just not recommend this relationship at all. Mars in hard aspect to Saturn in general is a very difficult aspect and is something I have been trying to explain to my best friend for months while she is going through a divorce. She has the conjunction (in Virgo - I know this one well!) and it is shared in the same sign with her husband. She constantly deals with being judged by him and never feels like she is good enough, and he behaves sanctimoniously and insensitively towards her about all of this.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Horary & Electional Astrology All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
. Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

       
Contact Deborah Houlding  | terms and conditions  
All rights on all text and images reserved. Reproduction by any means is not permitted without the express
agreement of Deborah Houlding or in the case of articles by guest astrologers, the copyright owner indictated