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French farmhouse murder suicide

 
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Fleur



Joined: 05 Feb 2014
Posts: 617

Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:00 pm    Post subject: French farmhouse murder suicide Reply with quote

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5035097/Couple-three-children-killed-massacre.html

I noticed that this article said it was the day of the wife's 47th birthday. That would make her born 31st October 1970.

At first I thought it was 1971, looked it up in the ephemeris, and thought there is nothing there to explain what happened. But when I looked up 1970, there were a lot of transiting planets, specifically to her Mars. I have noticed many times that Mars is significant in victims' charts; it also signifies a lot of other, more positive things, such as a talent for music, comedy or visions and dreamscapes.

Most of the time, we do not have a time of birth, but still the planets are significant. Whenever I see astrological data given in the media for an extreme event, I try to look at what the planets are doing.

Noon chart for 31st October 1970.


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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 2707
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fleur,

as i have said before - working with a noon chart is very limiting!

there is so much to see in astrology, that it is better if you can figure out a way to see less! for example doing traditional astrology, one doesn't include the outers...

regarding the chart you have drawn to our attention here.. i would note the mars placement in her chart at 6 libra and the transit of mars at 5 libra... a few things about this.. mars is the ruler of all the scorpio planets.. mars is in the 12th sign to scorpio - libra.. it is what i refer to as the solar 12th house.. mars is also in an out of sign conjunction to pluto.. mars/pluto conjunctions are full of intensity.. i suspect the male figure in her life reflected the characteristics of this mars/pluto conjunction.. and yes, it is conjunct uranus too - even more so in terms of closeness (so lots of impulsiveness and etc), but i still consider mars/pluto connections as indicative of potential violence, depending on the set up..

the natal mars is in a 135 to saturn.. thus the transit of mars to this same spot triggers saturn here too.. saturn is in the solar 7th - or if this is easier to think of it this way - taurus is the sign opposite scorpio... a relationship theme is triggered and a very simple and narrow description of saturn opposite all those scorpio planets is an unhappy relationship theme... this is amplified thanks the involvement of natal venus.. but - and this is the big thing here for me - saturn is a critical planet to this chart given how all planets form a type of bundle with saturn in opposition acting as the handle to all these planets.. transits to saturn become more critical...
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Fleur



Joined: 05 Feb 2014
Posts: 617

Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

james_m wrote:
fleur,

as i have said before - working with a noon chart is very limiting!

there is so much to see in astrology, that it is better if you can figure out a way to see less! for example doing traditional astrology, one doesn't include the outers...

regarding the chart you have drawn to our attention here.. i would note the mars placement in her chart at 6 libra and the transit of mars at 5 libra... a few things about this.. mars is the ruler of all the scorpio planets.. mars is in the 12th sign to scorpio - libra.. it is what i refer to as the solar 12th house.. mars is also in an out of sign conjunction to pluto.. mars/pluto conjunctions are full of intensity.. i suspect the male figure in her life reflected the characteristics of this mars/pluto conjunction.. and yes, it is conjunct uranus too - even more so in terms of closeness (so lots of impulsiveness and etc), but i still consider mars/pluto connections as indicative of potential violence, depending on the set up..

the natal mars is in a 135 to saturn.. thus the transit of mars to this same spot triggers saturn here too.. saturn is in the solar 7th - or if this is easier to think of it this way - taurus is the sign opposite scorpio... a relationship theme is triggered and a very simple and narrow description of saturn opposite all those scorpio planets is an unhappy relationship theme... this is amplified thanks the involvement of natal venus.. but - and this is the big thing here for me - saturn is a critical planet to this chart given how all planets form a type of bundle with saturn in opposition acting as the handle to all these planets.. transits to saturn become more critical...

James, thanks very interesting comments, that teach me that there is more than one way to look at a chart, and I don't habitually use the techniques that you describe, but they might give me the insight I am searching for if I did. Your ideas are useful that oppositions denote relationships, and the Mars theme, and the violent relationship.

I tend not to look at things that could nail down specifics, even house placements of transiting planets, and I don't use houses very much though this is mainly because I am looking at other things too intensively not because I don't think they are useful.

Your clear explanations of the reasons behind traditional astrology are very helpful.

And yes, if I left out the outer planets, temporarily, there is a clear group of planets with the opposition to the singleton Saturn, which is a significant pattern, especially as Saturn is about control and this was probably an issue in their relationship.

When things like this news story happen, any astrological insight seems better than none. Which did make me wonder, as traditional astrology is based on accurate birth times, people must have recorded birth times a lot more then than they do now? Or maybe only important people like kings went to astrologers, and their birth times were recorded? Still, it seems there must have been a lot of accurate birth times recorded in the traditional astrological literature, and in general primary historical sources?
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 2707
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fleur wrote:

When things like this news story happen, any astrological insight seems better than none. Which did make me wonder, as traditional astrology is based on accurate birth times, people must have recorded birth times a lot more then than they do now? Or maybe only important people like kings went to astrologers, and their birth times were recorded? Still, it seems there must have been a lot of accurate birth times recorded in the traditional astrological literature, and in general primary historical sources?


thanks fleur.. i am glad you got something from it all!

i am sorry if i come across characterizing your approach a certain way... i don't mean to do that, so forgive me if it seems i have!

as for the traditional astro approach - that was just one example of how using less planets and etc, can really simplify one's insights to be gotten via astrology.. for me personally - saturn in astrology is like the elephant in the room that doesn't get appreciated nearly enough as it ought to for astrology students in general.. it would be like someone saying 'hey, what really hurts and troubles you?' and you either opening up or closing down when that question comes up! that is about saturn for me and if one could really understand how pivotal saturn is in astrology, i think it would be given a lot more importance and significance in chart reading then it appears that it does get - especially in superficial astro talk...

now about what i have quoted from you - great questions! i actually think astrologers of the past would not be able to have birthdata for much of anything outside kings, queens and possible heirs to the throne.. you are right to draw attention to this... and as a result they would have had to work with other astro tools like some of the ones i was trying to use in my initial response to you - so yeah! good response!

cheers james
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