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Egypt 2013 - 2017 -

 
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Location: vancouver island

Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 5:04 pm    Post subject: Egypt 2013 - 2017 - Reply with quote

there are a few charts for egypt. the one i am focused on presently is the chart immediately below - march 15 0:43am EET 1922 cairo.


screencast

here is a wikipedia link with an overview on the 2012-13 egyptian protests.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012%E2%80%9313_Egyptian_protests

i am mostly focused on 2013.. i have considered a solar return, profection, transit and solar arc directions charts all of which i will include here..

if one takes the 10th house as representing the gov't in power, while the 4th could be taken to represent the common people, the 1922 chart captures an obvious conflict in the saturn opposite venus on the midheaven axis in the above chart. the other obvious symbol which could be taken to represent the common people would be the moon which is also located in the 10th conjunct jupiter. the libra planets are ruled by venus in aries in it's detriment and especially challenged in the opposition to the malefic of the opposite sect saturn. all in all i would be looking to see this area of the chart in focus in some of the predictive charts given the present political and cultural dynamics egypt is experiencing.

the lord of the year in the profection chart is saturn, retrograde in libra, conjunct the midheaven, both opposite the sign ruler venus in detriment, and placed in a nocturnal chart which i think symbolically reflects much of the hardship and difficulty egypt is presently experiencing. this would put an emphasis on the 2nd house of the natal chart which is an important house in so far as it helps stabilize and root the rest of the chart in some manner connected to the nature of the ruler of the 2nd. the question of resources and a continuation of military aid from the usa is an interesting consideration when thinking about the present lord of the year in the profection chart.

i am a fan of solar arc directions as i have found over the years that they often describe events very well. below is a chart of the solar arc directions with the 1922 chart on the inside wheel.


take a screenshot

Four observations that strike me quickly with this chart are:
1- solar arc midheaven and saturn squaring onto the opposition found on the midheaven axis in the 1922 chart.
2- sa saturn on the sun/moon midpoint at 3 cap 58.
3- sa neptune on the asc/midheaven midpoint at 12 scorp 12.
4 - sa mars conjunct natal uranus, re-emphasizing the square found in the 1922 chart.

for me if an astrologer thinks they have a good chart with angles that are close to exact, the first place i look when comparing these charts is where the directed angles are located. this chart helps confirm a degree of validity to this chart. while the midpoints of the sun and moon, or midheaven and ascendant still may not be in popular use in astrological circles, i still continue to believe these 2 important midpoints have a lot to say on the nature of a chart. i believe they are very sensitive points to directions, transits and different predictive techniques that astrologers may use. this solar arc chart confirms the value of this 1922 chart here for me as well. mars does have an association to violence, but in itself without a connection back to the natal chart, i think it is harder to rely on. in the 1922 chart the obvious square between mars and uranus would seem to be put into action with the solar arc of mars here and does reflect the present dynamics of violence egypt is experiencing.. for me, all the outer planets represent a degree of 'unpredictability' in suggesting energies that are unconscious or more collective in nature. keep this in mind when considering the next chart with it's focus on pluto and mars.

the following chart is the 2013 solar return to the 1922 chart for egypt.


how to screenshot on windows

here we see pluto quite close to the ascendant in capricorn.. the ruler of the ascendant is saturn retrograde in scorpio, (ruled by a dignified mars in aries), while being in the 10th and the malefic of the opposite sect.

here are a few observations on the solar return chart.. first off, the ascendant in the sr chart reflects the lord of the year in the profection chart - saturn.. saturn is very strong in this sr chart for better or worse. going back to the natal chart for greater clarity on this particular solar return, the issue of saturn and the government controlling the direction of egypt is put in greater focus. morsi's democratically elected gov't have been removed from power thanks to a number of factors, with the end result at present- a military coup..

sr ascendant/pluto conjunction re-emphasizes the natal pluto which happens to be opposite this sr conjunct and in the 7th house, 8th sign to the 1922 ascendant..

sr midheaven is trine natal mercury in the 3rd.. this is interesting if you think of the 3rd house mercury as representing the media or modern types of communication. i have heard that some of the muslin brotherhoods media outlets have been shut down, perhaps to maintain a particular grip on power by the military here..

sr jupiter at 9 gemini activates the 1922 mars/uranus square which overlaps with the solar arc mars at present as well..

sr saturn is about a degree away from the ascendant/midheaven midpoint in the 1922 chart, essentially overlapping the solar arc neptune mentioned earlier. this is interesting in so far as egypt seems to be marked by these 2 planets - saturna/neptune.. take a look at the 1953 chart for an obvious connection with these planets.

sr mars is exactly conjunct natal venus. this seems to speak volumes on the common people wanting to resort to violence if one takes venus on the i.c. cusp as being a symbol for the common people as i was suggesting earlier. sr mars is thus in a direct opposition to the saturn/midheaven conjunction in the 1922 chart.


finally here is a biwheel with the transits for june 30th 2013, the first anniversary of morsi's election and a day or two before the date where the military gave morsi's government an ultimatum (july 1st or 2nd)..the transition to military coup took place july 4th.


printscreen

it's interesting the transition to a military coup where morsi was put under house arrest happens to coincide with timing of late june into the july 4th transition date.. one immediately notes the position of transiting mars on the 1922 descendant. the transiting sun sits on natal pluto and re-emphasizes the solar return chart ascendant/pluto conjunction by opposition as well.. over the course of these 4 or 5 days transit mars moves to a direct square to the natal sun at 23 pisces. transit saturn is stationary about to go direct, so very powerful if you think stationary planets are powerful and can say something about the nature of the energy at a particular time.

hopefully all the charts go thru and i haven't timed out here!

edit- image repair...


Last edited by james_m on Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:57 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Mark
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Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi James,

Thanks. Interesting analysis!

Have you seen this thread I opened when the protests began a couple of years ago?

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5989

I have tended to use the 1953 chart myself which is the chart for the Egyptian Republic. However, you certainly have done your work on that 1922 chart!



Quote:
''Realizing that their time had come, the radical [army] officers engineered a second coup on 18-19 June, the culmination of which was the proclamation of the Republic at 11:30 p.m. GMT on 18 June in Cairo. . . ." Campion, "The Book of World Horoscopes" (second Edition), p.144''



Have you noticed this whole crisis is very tied into Jupiter ingresses? It started with Jupiter entering Aries and Morsi's fall from power closely linked to the ingress into Cancer.

The 1953 chart works quite well reflecting this from a whole sign perspective as it is Aries rising and Cancer rules the WSH 4th. With the 1922 chart Jupiter is additionally the ASC ruler and Lord 4. We have Jupiter in the WSH 5th when the protests began and the removal of Morsi and military takeover coincide with Jupiter going into the 8th WSH. That seems quite apt too.

Mark
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‘’As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity…’’ William Lilly
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi mark,

thanks for your comments and sharing the link from a previous thread on egypt. i hadn't read that. i made some comments on egypt myself a few years ago on a different board here - http://noeltyl.com/discussion/index.php?PHPSESSID=f2a69d6887ad77c886e52487703af411&topic=4413.0

i think the 1953 chart for egypt has a lot of merit as well! i was going to do a follow up to this post discussing the 1953 chart and where i think egypt might be going based on a collection of ideas surrounding both the 1922 and 1953 charts.

i hadn't really noticed the jupiter in gemini theme until you mentioned it! i recall andre barbault discussing egypts chart and the saturn/neptune cycle which i thought were very good observations, but now that i think about it, i might be mixing it up with his views on russia which interestingly enough has had an ongoing relationship with egypt over the many years and also had the saturn/neptune theme emphasized.. saturn in libra certainly seems to be an ongoing theme for egypt as both the 22 and 53 chart have this planet in a pronounced place on the chart.

interesting how mubarak has been released today.. it is hard not to make a connection with this symbolic release and the military leadership that is presently running egypt and wonder how the people of egypt feel about this symbolic turn of events? it is hard not to think nothing has indeed changed in egypt in spite of the past few years, but i think i am wrong on this and that something positive will come out of the present political and cultural turbulence.

the solar return chart for 1953 to this year i had indeed looked at and i think it is pretty descriptive of events here as well.. i will try to make a post on this in the next week or so. i have a busy schedule beginning tomorrow for about the next week.
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Mark
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Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

James_M wrote:
Quote:
i hadn't really noticed the jupiter in gemini theme until you mentioned it!


Its not just a Jupiter in Gemini theme. Its a Jupiter ingress theme into several new signs!

Jupiter ingress into Aries-2 days before popular Uprising begins
Jupiter-ingress into Gemini-12 days before election of Morsi
Jupiter ingress into Cancer-7 days before Morsi is toppled.

Sticking with ingresses the movement of Mars into Cancer coincided with the shooting of hundreds of Muslim brotherhood protesters last week and the poison gas attack in Syria. Mars is traditionally in its sign of fall in Cancer. Interestingly, the English riots in 2011 followed just after the last ingress of Mars into Cancer.

James_M wrote:
Quote:
i recall andre barbault discussing egypts chart and the saturn/neptune cycle which i thought were very good observations, but now that i think about it, i might be mixing it up with his views on russia which interestingly enough has had an ongoing relationship with egypt over the many years


Sure its not just Russia you are thinking of? He made predictions on that.

Egypt was aligned with the Soviet Union in the Nasser years. However, after Egypt's defeat in the Yom Kippur war in 1973 their foreign policy shifted pro-American. Especially after the signing of the Israel-Egypt peace treaty in 1979.

Mark
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james_m



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Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mark,

any approach towards mundane astrology as i understand it has to have a good grasp of the history of the country. i can't say that i have that, and barely even on the country that i live in. my passion is music and astrology, not history! but i am wondering based on your comments of the importance of the ingress of jupiter into the different signs if this has a connection to any chart in particular? obviously the 53 chart with 29 aries 18 rising would be active with the ingress of any planet into another sign. the venus at 1 aries 49 opposite the midheaven of the 22 chart could be thought to do something similar. this is what makes mundane astrology difficult or not i suppose.

yes, the connection to the historical trends in russia and saturn/neptune was barbault.. it is interesting though how this combo is so prominent in the 53 chart. do you believe a new chart is necessary for egypt given what has happened in the past few years? it is something i wonder about! working with these charts must look like stringing prayer beads or something that answers the mystery of a countries fate. it goes back to what you were discussing about having to use a few charts instead of just one to get a better view. with that in mind here is the solar return chart off the 1953 chart for egypt that you posted a few comments back.


upload gambar

the profection lord for this year beginning june 19/2013 is mars. (in the mundane chart for 53 mark posted) mars is in cancer, 3rd house area, under the beams of the sun which would be described as unfavourable. mars position in the solar return chart is in gemini and in the 9th which might put a focus the muslim brotherhood and the problems they have experienced since morsi was overthrown and put under house arrest, not to mention the numbers of mb members murdered and etc. the strife seems to have a 9th house quality to it.. the moon on the ascendant is arguably the most prominent planet in the solar arc chart, as ruler of the midheaven and the planets conjunct the midheaven and rising. the moon rules the 4th house in the mundane 53 chart.. its location in the solar return chart is right on the saturn/neptune conjunction in the 53 chart. that seems to support the sense of disappointment and loss over what the community and general public appeared to have only a short while ago.. the sr saturn in opposition to venus rising in the 53 chart also throws a real damp blanket on the general mood.

the solar return for 2013 off the 53 mundane chart seems to fit the circumstances here as well.

the converse solar arc sun conjunct ascendant, while converse sa saturn approaching conjunction to pluto would fit as well if you think of the sun/ascendant expressing a new beginning and greater attention on egypt generally, while sa saturn approaching mundane pluto describes the hardship in moving forward and starting a new beginning. at this point it seems to me egypt has gone 1 step forward and 2 steps back! lets hope we don't have to wait til the next jupiter ingress in july 2014 to see some positive change in egypt..

edit- image repair...


Last edited by james_m on Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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james_m



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Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i wanted to bump this thread up given the recent attack on innocent worshipers at a mosque in sanai, egypt... maybe the title could be more generalized? i can't see how to change it..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Sinai_attack

unfortunately they don't provide a time of the attack... below is a day chart, until we find out more info on this.. i am of the persuasion that mars-pluto contacts can connect to these types of horrific events.. that is quite general on my part, and maybe saturn/pluto contacts would be a better, or another reflection of my thinking too.. i note the position of mars at 20 libra lands on the 1922 charts moon, and the 1953 charts saturn... the timing of this is on the same day as the new leader of zimbabwe was sworn in and we discussed how the mars/pluto midpoint has the sun very close to it.. i am just tossing out some superficial observations here, prior to digging a bit deeper.. below is a noon chart for the event..



below is an aries 2017 ingress chart for cairo, egypt.. one notes the strong angular pluto on the descendant.. pluto is also on the descendant exact in the cancer ingress 2017 chart... for the libra ingress - saturn is very close to conjunct the descendant... again - below is only for the aries ingress..



here is the 2017 libra ingress.. aside from saturn on the descendant, one notes mercury, ruler of the ascendant and in conjunction to mars - applying to the saturn descending..



edit - removed a duplicate chart..

edit 2 - image repair..


Last edited by james_m on Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:59 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Vicki



Joined: 14 Aug 2012
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Location: Nottingham U.K.

Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



James I discovered a time given as "around 1 50 pm local time".

As always I look to the fixed stars ! The ascendant is close to Difda Beta Cetus often to be found in mundane catastrophes.

There are several afflicted planets - Mercury, Venus and Mars are all in detriment. Mercury in particular is incredibly close to Lesath Upsilon Scorpius which can be a particularly nasty star often seen to be significant in the charts of psychopaths and also conjoins Saturn.

The Moon applies to Jupiter the ruler of Mercury.

Vulcan is close to Antares.

The antiscion of Mars Lord 8 is on Neptune in the 12th - death.
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Isaac Starkman



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Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The proclamation of the Republic chart works very well: 19 June 1953 1.30 EET which I rectified to 01.28.56 Asc 28Ari56' using 25 events.
Primary directions in Topocentric system:
Neptune 90 Asc 2'
Venus 120 Saturn 5'
Secondary:
MC 180 Mars 9'
Moon 0 Mars 23'
Transits:
Saturn 180 Saturn 22'
Mars 0 Neptune 30' and 0 Saturn 3'
Pluto 0 MC 72'
Node 150 MC 3'
Venus 90 Pluto 13'
Converse transits;
Mars 90 VIII 5'
Neptune 180 VIII 60'
In the converse solar return: Sun conjunct Mars 7'
Vicki: it can't be 1.50 pm as I heard the news about the attack at 1.30 pm EET and they said "about an hour ago".
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amymaddalozzo



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Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:59 pm    Post subject: egypt Reply with quote

Transiting pluto in currently opposing natal uranus--sudden events. I think it will get worse by 2020 as transiting pluto will be squaring natal saturn.
I was in egypt in January 2005 and I consider myself lucky because, at that time, there was short period of time where Egypt was taking tourists out to the Sinai. Very few americans even in 2005 were going to Egypt. There was all sorts of security but the tourist industry then was still not like it was years ago. In these muslin countries, being a tour guide is one of the acceptable professions for women with an education. AMY
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james_m



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Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks vicki, isaac and amy!

maybe a more exact time will be found for the timing of the event.. i have looked, but not come up with anything.


i agree the 1953 chart seems look a good one for timing events in egypt... as i said in the post - 1922 moon had mars conjunct it for this event.. the 1953 chart had mars conjunct saturn...

vicki - it is always interesting your unique take on a chart via the stars.. thanks..
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james_m



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Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

on this link they are saying 1:50pm local time...

http://www.businessinsider.com/egypt-sinai-mosque-attack-timeline-2017-11
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Mark
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Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am working a lot these days with the Dodekamoria ie the 12th parts of the signs which creates a micro-zodiac in each sign. Its referred to as the dwads in Jyotish. Hence, the 1st 2.5 degrees of Aries ruled is by that sign, the next 2.5 degrees is ruled by Taurus etc. The technique is one of the oldest we have and is dated back to Babylonian astrology from around 500 BCE. Just about all the astrologers in the hellenistic era used this technique extensively. In Perso-Arabic medieval horary astrology it was believed the Dodekamoria sign/planet ruling the ASC degree revealed the intention of the questioner.

Anyway, all this preamble is to make the simple observation that the ASC degree in the event chart is in the Dodekamoria of Taurus. The sign of Taurus is empty in the chart. But we find its ruler Venus in its sign of detriment, out of sect, in oriental phase, and under the beams in the 8th house. The dispositor of Venus and ASC ruler is Mars which is also in detriment, out of sect, and in an applying opposition to Uranus.

Leaving aside the Dodekamoria Venus is of course the DESC ruler. One can therefore delineate the attackers as symbolized by Mars in the 7th and the victims (7th house ruler) by Venus in the 8th. The ISIS supporting fanatics seem well described by Mars while the peaceful Sufi Muslims who were the victims here fit the symbolism of Venus.

Of course if this time is wrong much of this analysis is redundant. However, Wikipedia seems to have settled on 1.50pm EEST for now so Vicki's chart seems correct.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Sinai_mosque_attack

Mark
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james_m



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Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi mark,

i used to look at those a very long time ago - dodekamoria... the data has to be very close to exact in order for it to be even considered.. it is not something i would want to rest a position on, but i like how you tied it together.. however, the chart data that vicki entered was for cairo, not bir al-abed.. this changes the chart to approx 6 aries 35 and supports the importance of everything having to be very close in order for it to fly... the problem here is the question on a rounded off time of 150pm as well..



edit - image repair...


Last edited by james_m on Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mark
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

James_M wrote:
Quote:
i used to look at those a very long time ago - dodekamoria... the data has to be very close to exact in order for it to be even considered.. it is not something i would want to rest a position on, but i like how you tied it together.. however, the chart data that vicki entered was for cairo, not bir al-abed.. this changes the chart to approx 6 aries 35 and supports the importance of everything having to be very close in order for it to fly... the problem here is the question on a rounded off time of 150pm as well..


Ahh a beautiful theory ruined by ugly astro data! lol

An event chart was perhaps an unpromising way to float this technique. Still, Dodekamoria are fully viable for mundane events with an unambiguous exact time. Ingress charts for example or national charts legally taking effect at midnight.

Mark
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james_m



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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mark,

your comments on the venus ruled dwad might be valid as the time is still not fully ascertained.. and in the case of rectification is this the type of technique they use as well as i understand..

i was just looking at the 1953 chart - leo profection year, so a focus on the sun in the natal chart and solar return chart.. the natal chart has had the transit of saturn in opposition to the sun and of course this shows up in the solar return chart.. below is a solar return chart off the june 18 1953 1:30 am chart set for cairo with 29 aries rising..

viewing the event chart with the solar return chart, one notes the moon/mars square at 9 aries/cancer on the angles and very close to the degree for the event chart which has 6 aries given the 150pm time.. 'event' mercury is making an exact conjunction to the solar return saturn - at 24 sag 16.

the solar return chart has the ascedant ruler venus in the 8th at 12 degrees taurus.. what is interesting is saturn in the event chart is exactly opposite the sun at 27 gemini, while being 45 degrees to this same venus at 12 taurus and ruler of the ascendant in the 8th... so, lots of connections between the solar return for the 53 chart and the event chart..

6 aries rising is the exact midpoint of solar return mercury/pluto in the as well.. looking at the solar arc directions off the 1953 chart, perhaps the most significant one for me is sa mars exact 45 natal saturn and of course the transit in the event chart had mars at 20 libra exactly on natal saturn as well, acting as a trigger for this sa mars 45 radix saturn.. in the natal 53 chart, mars and saturn are square by sign, but not degree.. generally they aren't set up favourably in the chart.. saturn exalted in libra and mars in it's fall in cancer..

maybe i can see if the 1922 chart has as many connections.. below is the solar return off the 1953 chart..



1922 chart has libra profection to the scorpio ascendant, so a 12th house profection.. venus, ruler of libra is at 1 aries in the 1922 chart and in opposition to saturn at 5 libra, so a difficult year is generally projected for a set up like that! 2017 solar return off the 22 chart has venus at 11 aries retro, while sr mercury - ruler of the 8th in the natal chart is conjunct venus in the natal chart..

1922 chart itself has pluto at 7 cancer, with the sr moon at 8 libra.. why this is interesting is if the event chart ascendant is close to 6 aries - one can see the relevance.. and, north node in the 1922 chart is at 9 libra as well.. lots more interesting connections that i won't bore you all with.. well, one more... mars solar arc at 14 virgo is on the same degree of the 2017 solar return midheaven off the 22 chart..

below is the 2017 solar return off the 1922 chart...

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