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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 2710
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:54 am    Post subject: a quiz Reply with quote

johnny cash checked into the betty ford clinic on dec 20th 1983..

elizabeth taylor checked into the betty forc clinic on dec 5th 1983..

cash and taylor are born less then a day apart - feb 26 and feb 27 1932...

what do you think was being activated in the charts to motivate them to check into the betty ford clinic around the same time? there could be a lot of ways to answer this question astrologically.. i am curious if anyone has some thoughts on this they would like to share..


below are there charts off adb..

https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Cash,_Johnny

https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Taylor,_Elizabeth
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Arvind



Joined: 07 Nov 2016
Posts: 43

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At the most basic level common to both charts, it was transiting Sun conjunct transiting Neptune and transiting South Lunar Node (true) exactly aspecting natal Jupiter.

There are other things, but as you said there are a lot of ways to answer this depending on your school/practice of astrology.
~A.
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Fleur



Joined: 05 Feb 2014
Posts: 618

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just had a very quick look at the ephemeris for December 1983, and the charts involved.

Off the top of my head, from a few minutes looking at it, I would say it seems to be more than one transit. Obviously there is one transit pattern to their Sun Neptune and another one to their Saturn.

Saturn at 0 degrees Aquarius 18 minutes has an antiscion at 29 degrees Scorpio 42 minutes. In December 1983 Chiron was crossing 29 degrees Taurus 42 minutes at the same time as Pluto during December was 0 degrees Scorpio 56 minutes to 1 degree Scorpio 46 minutes. So there was for both of them some sort of having to do this, Saturn making it absolutely necessary. As close as a mega rich star gets to being forced to do something.
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Arvind



Joined: 07 Nov 2016
Posts: 43

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:08 pm    Post subject: A. Reply with quote

There is the natal Saturn to transiting Pluto aspect but, I don't buy into that as a very strong factor since there are no personal planets involved. More generational IMO.

We could also consider "coincidence."
~A.
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 2710
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks arvind and fleur.. i am hoping some others might want to comment, before i tell you both what i think!

i had thought about this from the point of view of how understanding a chart might transcend interpreting it any number of ways.. in this example it's 2 people born close to the same time - a half day apart basically.. there is a chance that elizabeth taylor went to the betty ford clinic more then once.. i read the johnny cash bio and as i understand it, he only went the one time.. he did fall back into pill use sometime after leaving the ford clinic due the the pain he was in, in combo with all else going on in his life.
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Arvind



Joined: 07 Nov 2016
Posts: 43

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi james_m: I'm afraid I'm stuck in the proverbial "astrological box" on this one. ergo... Looking at it from the internal configurations/progressions/transits of each individual chart.
I am eager to hear your thoughts...
I could do with a little shakeup of my astrological POV methinks.

Cheers,
~A.
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 2710
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

arvind,

me too - re the shake up - that is why i am into doing this!!

i think one can approach it from a few angles, but it is fun to talk about it non the less.. i just happened to find that e taylor is born almost on the same day as cash, thanks the robert hillburn book on johnny cash, i just finished reading.. he mentions how cash met taylor at the betty ford clinic and that was what triggered my curiousity about the coincidence of both of them being at the clinic very close to the same time as one another and having a birthday so close to the same too!

it would be one thing to bump into one another at the drug store, but going to a clinic to find a way to stop your addiction is really what the betty ford clinic is all about.. i just realize now that maybe there are many folks who don't know that and what the betty ford clinic is! i am sorry if i left out this important detail unintentionally!
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 2710
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

things are always so slow on skyscript for an aries, lol...

i will post my ideas which first came to me on this.. i was thinking it was probably the fact that saturn was transiting scorpio in the same sign as both cash and taylors moon placement.. that was my first thought..

my 2nd thought was the transit of pluto into scorpio around nov 4th which coincided with jupiter close to elizabeth taylors ascendant.. the day she went into the ford clinic - dec 5th, there is a stellium in sag in her first house - so a good time to try for a new beginning to kick the addiction, especially with jupiter in the first..

with cash dec 20th, jupiter in sag is on the midheaven, so this might have been a motive too..

but when i dig down into the charts, i can fall back on the solar return in cashs chart for 1983.. the moon is in an opposition to mercury in the 1983 sr chart in the area of natal jupiter. in turn the sr midheaven sits opposite the natal moon, while saturn is at 4 scorpio very close to the natal moon...the sr83 ascendant axis falls in the 6th/12th houses.. all this points to a focus on his natal moon.. add to this solar arc direction of saturn within a degree of his ascendant - it could be used to push his ascendant back a degree in a rectification) suggests to me a real deep need for a change in habits that can prevent cash for doing way more damage to himself then he already had up to this point..

in elizabeth taylors astro, aside from the idea that saturn in the sign of the moon is a big deal - which i know it is, but also pluto for those who might consider this a planet too, i have this as well.

in e taylors solar return for 1983 i see sr ascendant at 0 cancer - lands in the 8th house area of her chart, while opposite her neptune rising... the sr midheaven is 25 aq, while moon is 24 leo - so again - moon is on the angle of the solar return chart.. sr jupiter in turn is on the natal ascendant..

one of my problems for using solar arc directions on either cash or taylor chart is the rounded off sound of the birth times... i can push the ascendant forward a degree in taylors chart to get the type of solar arc directions i would associate with a desire to kick an addition.. in cashs chart as i said - move the ascendant back a degree to get solar arc saturn right on the ascendant, or in the case of taylor move the ascendant/midheaven forward 1 degree to get a sa midheaven square her neptune and sa ascendant 135 her 8th house pluto.. to me it is sketchy due the fact i am not convinced of the accuracy of the birth times...

but, i do believe anyone going thru a saturn transit anywhere in the sign of their natal moon - especially a moon in scorpio - is due for an overhaul and change up in what probably amount to some negative habits in need of change.. i mostly attributed the coincidence of them both meeting in the betty ford clinic up to a shared moon in scorpio, but i think one has to look deeper then just transits, as i don't think only transits can explain it.. that is my take!

thanks you arvind and fleur for taking a look and contributing..

i suppose i am emphasizing the use of transit data, with solar return data and solar arc data.. that is my basic approach at this moment in time.. i remain unconvinced of the merits of profections.. i am on the fence with the use and importance of profections at the moment..
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