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First attempt at horary (whole sign)

 
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Stainless



Joined: 09 Feb 2018
Posts: 4

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:07 am    Post subject: First attempt at horary (whole sign) Reply with quote

This is my first attempt at reading an horary chart. I use the whole sign system as far as I understand it. As far as I have read of Benjamin Dykes' translations this was the original house system also used by Sahl, who was the basis of Bonatti and all the astrologers who followed him. I still refer to more recent texts such as Frawley's but whole sign was what made astrology suddenly "click" for me after years of not getting it so I am going to stick with it. I am still very much a beginner though.



Background information: There is a girl at work I find attractive and AFAIK is single. My question is whether she likes me too. I have some doubts on my end about starting a work relationship and I am not really besotted with her; I just find her attractive.

So this is a straightforward 7th house question.

My significators are Mars and the Moon who are in conjunction in Sagittarius. This indicates that my "head" and "heart" are in alignment, following Frawley. The significator of the quaesited, Venus, is in Aquarius in the 11th in conjunction with the Sun. Normally we would call it under the rays, but in relationship questions, the Sun is a secondary significator for the male, according to Frawley, symbolising the physical/animal side of the man, including both sexual attraction as well as the general idea of 'making a living'.

So looking at this I have:
A whole sign sextile aspect from Mars to Venus. Mars regards Venus, it's not a perfect aspect but it is something.
A conjunction between the Sun and Venus.
Mars and Venus both aspect the ascendant and the 7th respectively

Putting it together, I would say that she is physically attracted to me (Sun-Venus) and that overshadows the mental and physical aspects, which nonetheless are still present but kinda in the background and weak (Mars and Moon).

Am I missing anything? One possibility that I thought of might be that the Sun symbolises someone else, but Frawley says not to multiply third parties, and his examples of third parties involve other planets like Saturn.

Thanks
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 227

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

She is disposited by Saturn, ruler of the 10th, the strongest planet by far in the chart, so I think she is someone who is unlikely to want a relationship in the workplace. She likely takes the work very seriously and is probably hard working, resourceful and ambitious. She is also combust. The most common manifestation I see of this in romance charts is that the person is already in love with someone else and is likely in an intimate relationship with them. You say she is single, so it might be someone she broke up with but still has feelings for. I don't see the Sun relating to you in the chart, so I disagree with it relating to you in some way, but I could be wrong (I haven't been yet about this aspect). It is the exhalation ruler of the ASC but that is taking a leap. Maybe others might disagree.

The Moon's placement does I think emphasize your own physical attraction but there is no reception or aspect to make this something that looks like it will lead to much or even maybe matter to you (you are peregrine) with her. With Uranus on the Asc, and your sigs in the 9th in Sag in a day chart (lots of fire for the Moon and Mars), the attraction you feel for her will likely fade quickly and move on to something else. She does sextile the ascendant, she is Venus and doesn't seem to dislike you in any respect, but I don't see any indication of much regard, other than maybe friendship or work connections (11th house). Additionally, her signification is occidental and in an air sign with an air ASC (you are all fire), so she is not as passionate of a person as you may be nor likely to approach you. You might find her to be communicative and social but also aloof or unattainable on a personal level, and perhaps that is part of the allure but I think it shows a lack of compatibility on some levels. She may be more mature than you as well, possibly. Perhaps the differences might lead to an attraction on some levels for both of you but the chart doesn't show any aspect between you two.

I think the chart is positive for keeping her as a work connection and she may benefit your work in some way (the 11th is an aid to the 10th).
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Stainless



Joined: 09 Feb 2018
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Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting, thanks for your reply.

Yes, a lot of what you said does make sense. She is a hard-worker, and this ultimately doesn't matter to me that much. I am attracted to her and decided to use this as something to start off with horary.

The thing about the Sun being a secondary significator for the man was something I got from Frawley, who got it from Lilly, but as I said in the OP, I wasn't sure about it, and thought it could well refer to another person.

My natal Saturn is also in the 10th, but in Aquarius; he's the strongest planet in my natal, I don't know if that would mean anything. I'm Taurus ascendant with Venus in Libra in the 6th.
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 227

Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't see the degrees very well but it looks like you have an early ascendant. With the angles in cardinal signs and the ascendant early, the matter to me seems undecided and changeful on some level. Her significator is fixed, though, and she is disposited by a slow planet, so I don't think this really relates to how she feels.
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Stainless



Joined: 09 Feb 2018
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Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your reply. The ascendant is actually quite late, 26 Aries. Anyway, maybe I'll just talk to her casually and see what the situation is. Thanks.
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
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Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am a little backwards this week - thanks for clarifying. Let us know the outcome and good luck.
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 227

Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing I did just realize is that she is at a later degree and this can possibly suggest she will later have a change of heart. She will later enter her exaltation and leave Saturn's influence. This might show she changes jobs or less focus on career. I am not used to looking at whole signs so I am having a harder time reading this. Most horary readers use Regiomontanus.

Regarding Venus and Sun, their dance can show the dynamics in the relationship but here Sun is in detriment and chasing Venus, so even if we used Lilly's info on their dance, it still shows you are likely the fonder.
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Stainless



Joined: 09 Feb 2018
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Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes I've been searching for more information on the Venus-Sun thing, apparently Frawley is not being very traditional here. There was an old post with a user "Chip" on this forum where Paul and Wade made some interesting points on this. I think I will stop following Frawley.

Most of the historical sources I checked actually don't mention it, but I found that Al-Kindi, in Ben Dykes' translation did say that Sun aspecting Venus in marriage questions means that the marriage will be carried out, this is separate from the L1 and L7 significators. He seems to be the only one who says this though.
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 227

Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I asked about this a long time ago, and here is more info than you will ever want to know about Venus-Sun.
http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5023

Read Deb Houlding's response. She is the author of this site and knows more than anyone about horary.

Keep in mind that it becomes more complicated when one of the two parties is either Venus or Sun and in that case I don't find this technique to be very reliable.

I don't recommend Frawley at all. I may get flack on this but his techniques lead a lot of horary readers to be confused about several different topics and this is one of them.
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