lunlumo - according to this, the date is january 25th 2020 as the start.. if you have more insights on this, please share.. thanks...

i might comment on the chart in the next few days...

https://www.calendardate.com/chinese_new_year_2020.htm

tropical chart -



sidereal chart -

Hi James,
The start of the Chinese New Year - according to the traditional peasants' calendar- is the New Moon between Jan. 21st and Febr. 21st.
However, what we commonly call "Chinese Astrology" is mainly the system of Bazisuanming ("Eight Pillars"). According to that the New Year starts at the midpoint of winter solstice and its following vernal ingress. Which is exactly Aquarius 15:00 - usually on Febr. 4th (sometimes the preceding, sometimes the following day). I've been watching this for a number of years - and I've found the results very convincing.
The tropical chart for Beijing:
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(I've called these charts "Octilograms" - for reasons to be explained later on, maybe.)

These charts may (or should ) be seen with regard to the start of the 60 years' cycle that they belong to:
10 "Phases" (Heavenly Branches) : Wood, Fire, Earth, Metal, Water - each both Yang and Yin - (e.g. 2020: Yang Metal, 2021 Yin Metal / 2022 Yang Water, 2023 Yin Water, 2024 Yang Wood, 2025 Yin Wood - then it's fire, then earth, metal, water ...)
12 "animals" (Earth Branches): beginning with Rat ... ending with Pig.
There are 60 combinations of these. The 60 years's cycle starts when it comes to Water Rat. The last time that happened was in 1984. That was the start of the present cycle. The next one will start in 2044.

I've found the corresponding charts very useful! They are very reliable when it comes to mundane topics - of course not just with a view at China.
The chart for the cycle 1984-2044:
(I see it says "Berlin" - but it's certainly referred to Beijing).

SAT tr will be conj. IC three times this year - triggering MO/UR. But I think 2022 with PL tr conj. IC will probably have a greater impact. It will put the communist régime under stress.

With a view to the present virus in China, still spreading from what I read:
SA/Pl tr are conj. ME in the 1984 chart - square AC (also in Wuhan!) - a) resulting in transport restrictions (Wuhan cut off) b) referring to "lungs" = MER).

thanks lunlumo,

i don't know much about chinese astrology - not that we are doing that here - but the 8 pillars are the 4 cardinal points with the midpoints between these cardinal points - 15 aquarius being one of them..

my book on lunar astrology that was written by volguine is quite good.. it covers the chinese mansions and it seems to suggest chinese astrology is very old and predates indian or persian astrology.. i don't know if that is true.. volguine is quoting information from 'the origins of chinese astronomy'...

this is one of the differences between solar and lunar astrology - they put an emphasis on the sun, as opposed to the moon... my new moon charts have been removed from up above.. i have decided to start over here and explore your ideas more with the 15 aq chart.. however, i want to emphasize the important difference between a solar verses a lunar emphasis in the charts you are providing..

the chinese also have a 12 year cycle, but as you note it is actually a 60 year cycle with changing substances - wood, fire and etc. etc... my understanding is that jupiter is the 12 year planet and that the rat - which is what the cycle starts on, is the equivalent of sagittarius - ruled by jupiter... maybe you can correct me if i have this wrong... why would they start with water? it makes sense in some ways, but is different from the western system of starting the 12 sign zodiac with fire...

anyway - here is the thing.. if you do a solar return off the 1984 chart - you get the same chart for 2020 that you have shared... i would like to talk about both these charts but i have to go out right now.. however, i am posting the biwheel before i comment when back... thanks lunlumo!! - james

in the biwheel above this post one can note the position of saturn in the 2020 - 15 aq chart, compared to the the 1984 chart which is the beginning of this 60 year cycle... it is as lunlumo says - square the ascendant in the 1984 chart.. saturn rules the houses 4/5 in the 1984 and happens to be close to the position of mercury in the 1984 chart as lunlumo also notes.. mercury rules the 9/12 houses in the 84 chart that starts this cycle.. saturn makes a close opposition to the midheaven degree in the 84 chart which casts a negative shadow on the image of china internationally... it also casts a pale on the houses mercury rules - 9/12...

regarding the 15 aqaurius sun chart for 2020 which i have again shared below, you can see the position of saturn ruler of the 6/7 houses, is located in the 6th.. of course the 6th house connects to the issue of health, so this concern for health seems appropriate here for teh chinese new year 2020.. saturn rules over the position of the south node - ketu, which is also in the 6th house and i think important.. jupiter is in poor celestial state in the sign capricorn and also in the 6th house... all of these positions - saturn, jupiter and ketu are in the suns 12th house.. the sun rules the ascendant... this is the backdrop and really weakens the strength of the sun here as it is undermined by the 12th house influence of saturn, jupiter and ketu... rahu on the other hand is in the 6th house of the sun which is a type of positive... i personally don't think this virus is a really big scary deal, in spite of how the media is pushing it... we'll see...

the capricorn planets and south node are in the moons 8th house.. the 2020 moon is conjunct rahu - north node in the 84 chart..

having planets in the 6, 8 or 12th house are generally considered a negative.. some consider a malefic in these houses a positive.. but it does put a focus on the negative coverage around china with this virus at present - all as i see it..

i am exploring just working with the planets out to saturn - head in the sand, retro perspective here, lol... i figure one can get a lot of valuable insight working with the planets just out to saturn...

so does one lean on the sun or moon more heavily? - obviously solar type charts like this tropical 15 aquarius chart leans on the sun... looking at lunar phase - waxing trine - seems generally positive.... moon rules the 12th in this chart, but the moon phase would be considered net positive as it is waxing and approaching a full moon..

one could compare or examine the 1984 chart and consider a number of similar astro positions of relevance... it's fun to do!!



an indian astrology technique for arriving at more perspective on a particular time frame is the dasas or time lords for the chart.. using the 1984 as the root chart, the dasa lord is mercury from oct 2018.. mercury rules the north node and is at 23 capricorn in a square to the ascendant degree.. it is as i mentioned earlier the 9th and 12th house ruler... the 2020 position of saturn is very close to the position of mercury in the 1984 chart... all in all, i think just using this symbolism, once saturn moves out of capricorn the situation for china will improve...

Hi James,
very well observed! - Interesting remarks concerning the Dasas.
I used to take the common Lahiri-Ayanamsa - however, the Raman Ayanamsa seems to be more in accordance with the ancient scriptures (?). Anyway, it's presently the Mercury-Mahadasa, no matter if it's Lahiri or Raman.
LL

Thx for drawing my attention to the dasas.
Now, here it's the 1984 chart for Damascus, together with the solar arc for the beginning of the devastating civil war there - in the first days of February 2011. SA dir conj. UR-Ketu connected to Moon.

MA conj. IC, next to SA. Following the Raman dasa starting from Feb.. 1998 it was SA -dasa, with MA sub-dasa ("bhukti") since August 2010 - both planets in house four.
LL

thanks lunlumo,

i think i understand how you are using this - 1984 - water rat chart a few different ways..

i use krishnamurti ayanamsha, but they are all fairly similar..

i think astrologers are always looking for the magic bullet ( fool proof astro system), but i don't think there is one in astrology... there are many different techniques and approaches, but there is a subjective part of astrology that will always be their..

thanks for your post and comments..
james

Oops, I made a mistake: The Rat's quality is Yang-water. But, of course, a 60 years's cycle starts with Heavenly Stem Yang-wood. 1984 = Wood-Rat. But, of course, the chart above is the correct one.
The preceding cycle began in 1924. By the way: six of these cycles = 360 years. That forms the major cycle. It started in 1684 (Sun at 15:00 Aqu.). The present cycle is the last one within the major cycle. It's worthwhile to habe a look at the 1684-chart.
The chart for Beijing:
One should keep an eye on NE transiting MA - opp. MO-JU with AC forming a T-square that opposition.
The last time NE got there was in 1857 - resulting in a worldwide recesssion of economy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic_of_1857

As to what you write in your last posting: I can only agree. There'll never be a "golden bullet", as you put it. According to Heraclitus Nature tends to hide.
See modern physics: the deeper they get into the subtle aspects, hoping to get to the definite fundamentals, the more particles they find...

thanks lunlumo

do you know if the chinese use these charts in their astrology any? 360 year cycle is interesting..

mars is the 5/12 house ruler in the 1684 15 aq chart and at 20 pisces.. it is interesting what you say about the possibility of recession.. this has been talked about for a few years and is always a possibility.. i also notice south node 25 capricorn in the 1684 chart - very close to where the transiting saturn is at present and where mercury was in the previous cycle chart which we discussed earlier...

cheers james

Thanks for your observations!

I found these charts "on my own" (around 2011), having studied the I Ching and the system of Bazisuanming (which I mentioned somewhere above). However, I can imagine that there may have been other people - Chinese or non-Chinese - who also came across that idea. I wrote a book about that some years ago, as a result some people (not so very many...) got familiar with it over here.
Kind regards.
Lunlumo

thanks lunlumo!

very interesting.. kudos to you for exploring this idea in greater earnest..