a conversation and reconciliation?

1
Hi everyone, so happy to be here. I'm learning Horary Astrology and it's been a bit hard because of so much information I have found on internet.

I stopped communicating with my partner on 25th of april, we gave each other space, and then we broke up with my partner on 30th of April without a word, just a block and that's all.

I decided to ask "would there be reconciliation between us?"


My friend did a horary chart for me on 2th of april, here is the result and my interpretation:

Image



1. My significator is Mars and Moon, his is Venus and Sun

2. Venus, his significator is in combustion with the Sun ( I don't know how should a translate that)

According to J Frawley:
If conjunction with the Sun would give a Yes answer to the question, combustion can be ignored: the poor Sun would never get conjuncted otherwise.

Someone here pointed out, when the Sun and Venus are secondary significators, Venus combining with the Sun might be a good and powerful thing, since it is signifying a union of two people. The point was to address the secondary signification of Venus/Sun in love horaries, not primary rulers being the Sun or Venus, nor primary planets relating to secondary. But if Venus was a primary ruler, that would be a problem.

Im not sure how to approach in this case, because Venus is his main significator but Sun is his second significator, and also venus is making a sextile to Saturn and the nodes which is good for Venus and you see Sun isnt afflicted by malefics, sun is making a sextile to mars and saturn. So i guess combustion is not that bad in this case.

My doubt is what happen when are both of his significators? hahaha

3. Venus is in detriment

4. They are both making an applying sextile. (Mars and Venus)

5. Moon and Mars has a separating aspect, showing our past dissagrements


According to that, is a No? or should I take in considerations the aspect between Venus and Mars?

I think it’s a YES but any help would be very much appreacited.

Apologies, I just found out about horary a week ago, so that’s why.


Thank you ??????
Last edited by maleja.rangel on Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:23 pm, edited 7 times in total.

I did a timing question

2
I haven’t really use horary with time, so I asked if we are going to communicate in less than a month

This is what I got:

Image


Im Venus and Moon, he is Mars and Sun

Venus is in detriment and combusted ????

I noticed that Mars is receiving the moon and Venus (my significators). Also I'm checking, Venus will make an sextile with moon but moon first will make a trine for a few minutes with Mars so its good.

Also his cosignificator is applying a sextile to my moon.

I like the fact that Mars is going to recieve both of my significators, is like its willing for us both to get communication.

I'm willing to say is a YES to my answer BUT I'm not sure with the state of my main significator which is pretty bad

Someone would like to advice me? thank you

Thank you
Last edited by maleja.rangel on Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.

4
Learning horary can be difficult. Read Lilly's example charts in Christian Astrology. Anthony Lewis also has a very good site.

As to your chart, I don't see much happening. You are Mars, dignified only by face. Mars in on the 8th house cusp, the house of loss and fear. Your ex is Venus, peregrine and combust the Sun. As you noted, Venus is in her detriment in Aries. This most likely shows that this relationship is not good for him, even if he still has feelings for you. Mars is right on the cusp of the 6th house, which is associated with work and servitude. The Sun rules the 10th house, the house of careers and jobs. Does he have a job that he feels trapped in? That 6th - 10th house symbolism plus being combust suggests that to me.

The biggest question here is the coming sextile between Venus and Mars. In order for some change to happen, we'd need not just an aspect like a sextile but an aspect with reception, and there isn't one here. The only real reception in this sextile is the bad kind, by Venus being in her detriment with Mars. Mars is in the term of Venus but that's not enough to bring about a reconciliation. Venus is also combust the Sun, meaning that he's literally invisible to you. Perhaps if Venus was not combust the Sun but still had this negative reception going on, that might show a potential meeting but not a meaningful reconciliation. Combust the Sun though tells me that you are not going to see him for the foreseeable future.

The Moon just separated from an opposition with Mars. An opposition shows a breakup, not just a fight. The Moon will next make a square with Mercury, which is the 8th house ruler. A chart is clear when there are two or more signs showing the same outcome. In this case we have the Moon making an opposition to your significator Mars and then a square with your house ruler, which is the house of loss. After that the Moon makes no more aspects, which shows that the current situation is likely to continue just the way it is now.

Saturn is also square the ASC which just confirms the rest of the chart.

To sum it up, there's no reception between the two significators, Venus and Mars. Venus is in her detriment and is combust the Sun. Both significators are in unfortunate houses (8th and 6th). The Moon's last aspect was an opposition to you and her next aspect is a square to your house ruler. I'm sorry but there's no sign at all of a reconciliation.

I only read the first chart because you only get one shot with horary. The first chart is valid for the foreseeable future.

I've had these sorts of relationships too and it's painful. I hope you can move on to a better guy who wants to get married and have kids because that is the best that life can offer. I hope you feel better soon.
Mark F

5
Lilly would say Venus ill dignified in a romance chart would indicate someone unfaithful in love and who keeps company with other women. The next aspect the Moon makes is to square a detrimented Mercury conjunct Neptune in the 5th, which suggests confusion and deceit in communications.

A sextile is a weak aspect and without a strong mutual reception doesn't tend to lead to much. Venus shows no action so anything done would need to be via the effort of the querent and would lead to disappointment due to the condition of both significators. Venus is very debilitated and Mars is in the 8th house of anguish of the mind and pain (also obsession). The NN augments the nature of the 8th and can lead to a wormhole of obsession and self sabotage and defeat. There are other fish in the sea.

Saturn is very strong in the chart and represents the end of the matter and there are fixed angles. I think the relationship likely has played out.

6
I actually think a sextile with reception by house from the receiving planet's side might work, if the Moon supported it, but in this chart, the negatives far outweigh this only positive sign.

(1) Venus is not only combust but also in detriment. Bonatti went as far as saying that a planet in detriment is unable to deliver on any good aspect. (Liber Astronomiae, Part 4 & On Horary, page 14, trans. Robert Hand)

(2) Moon applies from Mercury's detriment to a Mercury in both its detriment and fall. This is a difficult square and nothing comes to its aid. Again we want to note what Bonatti said about planets in detriment. I think this square in itself quite enough to prevent any reconciliation. We can't ignore the Moon's testimony in any chart.

Lilly said,
It’s far better the Lord of the Ascendant be unfortunate than she [the Moon], for she brings unto us the strength and virtue of all the other Planets, and of one Planet to another.
It is my experience that Moon often gets to decide the outcome. Even a good connection between the lords just won't do if the Moon says nay.

(3) Venus is a main significator for him. This takes precedence over any secondary (I think tertiary, in fact) signification of the Sun-Venus interplay. The effect of combustion Tanit and Marked already noted.

It would also be my advice to stick to the first chart for the same relationship and situation, unless something happens that completely contradicts the first reading.

Amelia

7
Moon separating from MarsL1 and last aspect squaring Mercury (Ruling MarsL1) is the final outcome.
Mercury conjunct Fixed Star Scheat, according to Ptolemy of the nature of Mercury/Mars.
Wade Cave describes Mercury in the 5th 'in the house of pleasure that the quesited had come to see their relationship as a passing fling with no real commitment.' Reinforced by Mars position in the 8th conjunct NN (to break free from a relationship)
https://wadecaves.com/2017/01/15/will-w ... -together/

Moon in Sagittarius bestows some wisdom in the future. Lesson learned!

Best to you,
Ouranos
Blessings!

8
It is my experience that Moon often gets to decide the outcome. Even a good connection between the lords just won't do if the Moon says nay.
I agree and so would the astrologers before us.

Also in Lilly's aphorisms:
Have speciall regard to the strength and debility of the Moon, and it's farre better the Lord of the Ascendant be unfortunate then she, for she brings unto us the strength and vertue of all the other Planets, and of one Planet to another.

The Application of the Moon shewes the present condition of the thing demanded, viz. her applying by a good aspect, and in a good house, to a good Planet, intimates the strong hopes of the thing intended.

The Application of the Moon to a Planet in his Fall, signifies anguish, trouble and delayes in the thing demanded.
He mentions a planet in fall but this could also relate to a planet in detriment (here Mercury).

Also, regarding the combust quesited:

Beware in all Judgments, when the Significator of the question is either Comust, or in Opposition to the Sun, he will then signifie nothing of the matter, no good, nor is be able to bring anything to perfection.

Thank you

9
Thank you to all who take the time to answer, I appreacited the effort that you all made in explaining me. I learnt a lot. I dont manage very well when it’s receiving, the lights, also the dignties, Im very bad with that but def you showed me a big insight about things. I will keep all this because clearly I will keep learning about Horary Astrology.

Now, according to your answers, today, we talked, he came to my place and explained to me the reasons why he did what he did, mostly work, life changing, family (he is living his nodal return and also living Saturn on the MC). We are going to try one more time to work things out because we clearly love deeply.

Im not sure how to take the NO of the chart. Is that a no of maybe I won’t be happy after this? Or how should I take it? Or maybe did I make the question in the wrong time? It wasn’t a question I did unexpectedly, I looked for solutions and whys multiple times. Horary is something so new to me.

And now, it makes me wonder about free will, and also, wonder if from all of you, someone have predict a different outcome? Like you said yes but didn’t happen or you say no but it did happen.

Thank you so much ????

10
And now, it makes me wonder about free will, and also, wonder if from all of you, someone have predict a different outcome? Like you said yes but didn’t happen or you say no but it did happen.
If you feel like working on this relationship, no matter how difficult - at least take the chart as a warning of hardships ahead.

I did have gloomy romance charts followed by temporary reconciliations that looked like they could work out for a while. But eventually, there were too many obstacles and the cost of overcoming them was too high for the Querent or the Quesited. In case anyone is wondering, I wouldn't have called a negative chart right if the couple got married soon and were happy and only divorced 12 years later. Those relationships all fizzled out within a reasonable time frame (a couple of years in my cases).

As to relatively clear and readable charts such as this one, I can honestly say I have never seen them being wrong. That said, we always have a choice to dig our heels in and persist regardless of circumstances.

Amelia

11
Thank you for sharing your story Maleja.
Scorpio rising shows the fixity of your purpose and not wanting to let go with the ruler Mars in Gemini in the 8th, trying to bring a rationale to your attachment. And Venus being weak by sign and house and being combust can hardly deliver his promises. Otherwise, the sextile Venus/Mars is a nice aspect for communication.
And the Moon is not cooperating (circumstances, environment, changes) which can bring frustrations. It is like saying "I have a ticket for the concert tonight' but you have no transportation to get there, your sister has lost your ticket somewhere, your boss wants you to come in early on the next morning and your best friend just broke her ankle. Not that I am wishing you any of this but you see how circumstances can define the road.
And above all, Horary astrology is cruel because there is always a Yes or No at the end of the question. But in all cases, YOU decide.
Just wishing sometimes we could just answer with a hug facing a Horary question. We are all students here. No one holds the truth, just trying to be helpful.

Best to you,
Ouranos
Blessings!

12
Perhaps if Venus was not combust the Sun but still had this negative reception going on, that might show a potential meeting but not a meaningful reconciliation. Combust the Sun though tells me that you are not going to see him for the foreseeable future.
I'll admit that I was partly wrong about this. The coming sextile between the two significators does show a coming meeting so this isn't too surprising. I still don't see much coming out of this, for all of the reason that I initially gave and all the other fine work by the others on here. This is a very clear chart.
This most likely shows that this relationship is not good for him, even if he still has feelings for you. Mars is right on the cusp of the 6th house, which is associated with work and servitude. The Sun rules the 10th house, the house of careers and jobs. Does he have a job that he feels trapped in? That 6th - 10th house symbolism plus being combust suggests that to me.
If this chart can show his job concerns that it also is likely to show that this reconciliation will not last.
Last edited by MarkF on Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mark F