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Cruiser1 wrote:
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A new version of Astrolog has been released, and the new version 7.30 features enhancements to "3D houses" and "chart spheres". :D
Awesome animations again, Walter! :D
Astrolog now supports multiple models of 3D houses. Everything described up until now is a 3D model in which houses are arranged along the prime vertical, and have their poles at the North and South points on the local horizon. However, there are other orientations one can use for houses too. Here's a summary of the four models Astrolog supports:
  1. Ecliptic: Houses are arranged along the ecliptic, and have their poles (where the 12 houses meet) at the North and South ecliptic poles. This is classic 2D houses, because signs are also arranged along the ecliptic and use the ecliptic poles, which means only zodiac position longitude is used to determine house placement (and latitude is ignored).
  2. Prime Vertical: Houses are arranged along the prime vertical, and have their poles at the North and South points on the local horizon. Campanus houses combined with this 3D model is a "3D Equal system", in which all houses are equal sized 30 degree wedges of the celestial sphere. As with 2D Campanus and all quadrant systems, the Ascendant will always be on the 1st house boundary line, and the MC on the 10th house boundary line. This can be considered the preferred model for 3D houses (and was the only model available before Astrolog 7.30) since for quadrant systems it ensures that all parts of houses 1-6 are below the horizon, and all parts of houses 7-12 are above the horizon.
  3. Local horizon: Houses are arranged along the azimuth of the local horizon, and have their poles at the Zenith and Nadir points straight up and down on the local horizon. Horizon houses combined with this 3D model is a "3D Equal system", in which all houses are equal sized 30 degree wedges of the celestial sphere. As with 2D Horizon houses, the Ascendant won’t necessarily be on 1st house boundary line, but the Vertex will always be on the 7th house boundary line. As with Horizon houses themselves, stepping across Earth's equator will flip all houses 180 degrees.
  4. Celestial Equator: Houses are arranged along the celestial equator, and have their poles at the celestial poles or the points directly above Earth's North and South poles. Meridian houses combined with this 3D model is a "3D Equal system", in which all houses are equal sized 30 degree wedges of the celestial sphere. As with 2D Meridian houses, the Ascendant won't necessarily be on the 1st house boundary line, but the East Point (i.e. equatorial Ascendant) will always be on this boundary.
The animation above is an example of Porphyry houses displayed in a chart sphere in all four models, in which the 12 signs are in purple, and the 12 houses are in green. The four chart spheres are identical, and it's only the green colored house wedges that differ in orientation. Note how in all four spheres, all house boundaries intersect the ecliptic at the point of the 2D Porphyry house cusps.
I highlighted the part that I have a problem with. For Porphyry is simply an equal division of each quadrant along the ecliptic. Are you somehow "back engineering" its houses by dividing other circles in a way that would then result in Porphyry house cusps? :???:
In summary, there are four "3D Equal systems", in which all houses are equal sized 30 degree wedges of the celestial sphere. They are: (1) Any classic Equal system with 2D Ecliptic model. (2) Campanus combined with 3D Prime Vertical model. (3) Horizon houses combined with 3D Local Horizon model. (4) Meridian houses combined with 3D Celestial Equator model. Equal, Campanus, Horizon, and Meridian are therefore special house systems which could be considered "better" than others, since they are the only systems that can be "3D Equal". I like Campanus in 3D Prime Vertical the best, since it's the only system and model that's 3D Equal but can also ensure all parts of houses 1-6 are below the horizon, and all parts of houses 7-12 are above it.
It bears repeating: This seems to be an implementation of Rudhyar's vision of a system of 3D houses based on Campanus.
(Note Regiomontanus houses mentioned in the previous post isn't a "3D Equal" system like the others. Campanus is entirely based on the local horizon, in which houses are simply equal sized 30 degree wedges along the prime vertical. Meridian is entirely based on the celestial equator, in which houses are equal sized 30 degree wedges along the celestial equator. Regiomontanus mixes the two: It divides the celestial equator into 12 equal arc segments like Meridian, however it then draws lines from the North and South points on the local horizon like Campanus, and where those lines intersect the ecliptic forms Regiomontanus house cusps. Mixing the models in this way results in irregular sized Regiomontanus houses in both 2D and 3D.)
But the meridian always intersects the celestial equator 90 degrees from where the latter rises (at the vertex) and sets. Why would North and South have to be introduced artificially in order to derive the Regiomontanus houses?
_________________

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50
Michael Sternbach wrote:Porphyry is simply an equal division of each quadrant along the ecliptic. Are you somehow "back engineering" its houses by dividing other circles in a way that would then result in Porphyry house cusps?
Yes! :D Every classic house system has a corresponding 3D house system, which (in the prime vertical 3D model) is defined by great circles drawn from the due South point to the due North point on the local horizon, passing through each 2D cusp where it intersects the ecliptic. This transformation changes the poles where all 12 houses meet from the ecliptic poles to the local horizon, but won't ever change the house of planets that are exactly on the ecliptic. That allows those who like classic houses to combine their favorite house system with the benefits of 3D houses. For example, see http://www.astrolog.org/astrolog/pic/placidus.gif for "3D Placidus" houses, in contrast to http://www.astrolog.org/astrolog/pic/campanus.gif for "3D Campanus".

Remember that all classic house systems are simply divisions along the ecliptic, even Campanus. Campanus houses uses 3D math to calculate where the equal sized 3D wedges intersect the ecliptic, however once determined the 3D model is discarded and Campanus becomes a classic house system like any other. In other words, all classic house systems still use and define house cusps as positions along the ecliptic, and disregard planetary latitude when determining house placement.
Michael Sternbach wrote:It bears repeating: This seems to be an implementation of Rudhyar's vision of a system of 3D houses based on Campanus.
Indeed, as Deborah Houlding's article at http://www.skyscript.co.uk/houprob_print.html#6back says:

"Rudhyar also proposed that a future development of the houses could utilize Campanus as the basis of a three dimensional 'birth sphere', in which the effect of planetary latitude could be fully acknowledged; although to do so requires some alternative way of representing this information other than our two-dimensional chart forms which only show measurements along the ecliptic. Those who consider the three dimensional perspective important, argue that defining house positions by zodiacal degree alone can often prove inaccurate since it assumes that the cusps cut through the ecliptic in a straight line whereas in reality the lines are curved..."

Astrolog can do this Rudhyar 3D model (i.e. 3D Campanus with houses arranged along the prime vertical). Astrolog can also do 3D versions of all other classic house systems, by changing the size of the wedges appropriately.
Michael Sternbach wrote:But the meridian always intersects the celestial equator 90 degrees from where the latter rises (at the vertex) and sets. Why would North and South have to be introduced artificially in order to derive the Regiomontanus houses?
The North and South points on the local horizon have to be introduced to calculate Regiomontanus houses, because that's the definition of that system! I didn't design Regiomontanus, but rather just implement it. ;) As the page http://www.quadibloc.com/other/as01.htm describes it:

"In the Regiomontanus system of house division, the boundaries between houses are also meridians of longitude in the system of coordinates in which the North Point and the South Point on the horizon are the poles. However, instead of being equally spaced, they are determined by dividing the Celestial Equator into twelve equal parts. As this division starts from the eastern horizon, which includes the Ascendant, the eastern and western horizons, and the Meridian, are house boundaries in this system as well as in the Campanus system."

See http://www.astrolog.org/astrolog/pic/regiomon.gif for an animation of 3D Regiomontanus houses in Astrolog. Below is another picture showing the 3D model of Regiomontanus. These wedges are unequal sized, in comparison to http://www.quadibloc.com/other/images/campanus.gif showing the equal sized Campanus wedges:
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Astrolog 7.60 freeware downloads: http://www.astrolog.org/astrolog.htm :)

51
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Cruiser1 wrote:there are four "3D Equal systems", in which all houses are equal sized 30 degree wedges of the celestial sphere. They are: (1) Any classic Equal system with 2D Ecliptic model. (2) Campanus combined with 3D Prime Vertical model. (3) Horizon houses combined with 3D Local Horizon model. (4) Meridian houses combined with 3D Celestial Equator model. Equal, Campanus, Horizon, and Meridian are therefore special house systems which could be considered "better" than others, since they are the only systems that can be "3D Equal". I like Campanus in 3D Prime Vertical the best, since it's the only system and model that's 3D Equal but can also ensure all parts of houses 1-6 are below the horizon, and all parts of houses 7-12 are above it.
Here's a new animation which shows these four "3D Equal" house systems: Equal, Campanus, Horizon, and Meridian. These four house systems are the only systems defined by covering the celestial sphere with 12 equal sized wedges. The only difference between them is that they align their wedges with different planes. Compare this to the earlier animation posted last year, which shows Porphyry houses in the four models (i.e. arranged along the planes of the ecliptic, prime vertical, horizon, and celestial equator). Porphyry isn't "3D Equal" in any plane, however you do again have "3D Equal" houses when arranging Equal houses along the ecliptic plane, Campanus houses along the prime vertical prime, Horizon houses along the local horizon plane, and Meridian houses along the plane of the celestial equator.

As before, in each sphere the white hatched line is the local horizon, the green hatched line is the meridian, and the gray hatched line is the prime vertical, and these three circles are at right angles to each other and divide the celestial sphere into eight equal sized octants. Also, the purple wedges are the 12 sign boundaries, and the green wedges are the 12 house boundaries (in which the house boundaries are the only thing different between the spheres, to show how the house system in question divides it). All spheres show the Ascendant where the ecliptic intersects the local horizon, the Midheaven where the ecliptic intersects the meridian, and the Vertex where the ecliptic intersects the prime vertical.

Equal (upper left): Equal houses divides the plane of the ecliptic into 12 equal wedges, and has the 12 houses meet at the ecliptic poles (i.e. at the same points where the 12 signs of the zodiac meet). Since standard 2D wheel charts display along the plane of the ecliptic, this system is "2D equal" as well as "3D equal", and has all house cusps 30 degrees apart. Equal is a "2D house system", since the house boundaries are parallel with the ecliptic and can be described by a single zodiac position. This shows standard Equal houses, in which the 1st cusp is always the Ascendant. There are various other Equal systems too, such as Equal houses making the 10th cusp always be the MC, Whole sign houses, or other variations like Balanced Equal houses. In the sphere for Equal, notice how the sign boundaries (in purple) and house boundaries (in green) both meet at the same point.

Campanus (upper right): Campanus houses divides the plane of the prime vertical into 12 equal wedges, and has the 12 houses meet at the North and South points on the local horizon. Campanus is a quadrant system, in which the meridian (containing the MC) is the 10th house boundary, and the Eastern horizon (containing the Asc) is the 1st house boundary. The house wedges are equal sized, however they intersect the plane of the ecliptic at different points, which is why Campanus houses appear to be different sizes when displayed in a 2D wheel chart that shows the ecliptic plane cross section. This is a "3D house system", since the house boundaries pass through multiple zodiac positions, which means ecliptic latitude needs to be checked to determine what house a planet lies within. The 3D model of Campanus is unique, because it's the only Equal system with the nice property that any planet anywhere below the horizon will always be in houses 1-6, and any planet above the horizon will always be in houses 7-12.

Horizon (lower left): Horizon or Azimuth houses divides the plane of the local horizon into 12 equal wedges, and has the 12 houses meet at the Zenith and Nadir points straight up and straight down on the local horizon. Horizon is a "3D equal" system like the others, however it divides the celestial sphere in a non-intuitive manner, in which all 12 houses are each 50% above the horizon and 50% below it. Horizon isn't a quadrant system, because although it has the 10th house always equal to the MC like quadrant systems, the 1st house isn't the Ascendant (although the 7th house cusp will always be the Vertex). Horizon also has the behavior that stepping over the equator flips all houses by 180 degrees.

Meridian (lower right): Meridian houses divides the plane of the celestial equator into 12 equal wedges, and has the 12 houses meet at the North and South celestial poles above the Earth's North and South poles. In a 2D wheel chart, Meridian houses will have the 10th house always equal to the MC like quadrant systems. However, it sets the 1st house to the East Point or Equatorial Ascendant, instead of to the standard Ascendant. In the sphere for Meridian, notice how the East Point is at the point where the ecliptic (in purple) intersects the Meridian 1st house boundary (in green). A green line indicates the celestial equator, which divides all 12 house wedges in half, and which intersects the horizon at the East and West points on the local horizon, and which intersects the ecliptic at the 0Ari and 0Lib points.
Astrolog 7.60 freeware downloads: http://www.astrolog.org/astrolog.htm :)

54
Should house systems take into account atmospheric refraction? :???:

Most astrology is based on "apparent positions" of a planet in the sky (that take the speed of light into account, as opposed to "true positions" which is where a planet actually is in space at that moment). Therefore, taking atmospheric refraction into account can take accuracy a step farther. Atmospheric refraction will affect local horizon positions, and produce more accurate skygazing charts. Note that refraction will never affect sign position, because the sign boundaries will be refracted too (although refraction does mean that zodiac signs no longer appear as 12 equal sized wedges covering the celestial sphere, but instead their boundaries appear warped a bit).

House systems are related to the local horizon, in which many house systems have the 1st house cusp be the Ascendant, and the 7th cusp the Descendant. 3D house systems arranged along the prime vertical (such as 3D Campanus, my favorite) take this a step farther, and ensure that all parts of houses 7-12 are above the horizon, and all parts of houses 1-6 are below the horizon. Refraction means that an object that is technically below the horizon, may appear to be above it due to refraction, and therefore (assuming refraction is taken into account) it should be located in one of the upper houses.
Michael Sternbach wrote:Most impressive how you continue adding useful and informative features such as this one to your versatile freeware program! :D
Thank you! 8) Astrolog 7.50 introduces atmospheric refraction as a new calculation option, with a new "Local Horizon Positions Apply Atmospheric Refraction" setting. When active, this setting will affect local horizon charts, and things based upon them such as 3D house positions. To compute the effects of refraction, elevation above sea level as well as air temperature at the location need to be taken into account (in order to determine atmospheric pressure which affects refraction). That means they become additional variables to specify for a birth chart (which you can specify in Astrolog in its "Default Chart Info" dialog). Refraction isn't a major effect, and will never "move" a planet more than half a degree, but it can move planets near a 3D house boundary into a different 3D house.
Astrolog 7.60 freeware downloads: http://www.astrolog.org/astrolog.htm :)

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Cruiser1 wrote:Should house systems take into account atmospheric refraction? :???:

Most astrology is based on "apparent positions" of a planet in the sky (that take the speed of light into account, as opposed to "true positions" which is where a planet actually is in space at that moment).
You are touching on an interesting question of cosmology here. While we are used to thinking that, the deeper we are looking into space, the further we are looking back in time, this presupposes a universal time scale. From Einstein's lofty view, that assumption is wrong!

According to Relativity, c isn't just the speed of light, it is first and foremost the speed of causality! In other words, we are seeing any celestial object as and where it is "now", for all intents and purposes.
Therefore, taking atmospheric refraction into account can take accuracy a step farther.
This makes sense especially if we consider a celestial object's influence to tie in with its visible light, which some of the ancient astrologers definitely did. On the other hand, I guess an argument could be made that atmospheric refraction is more of a local distortion that doesn't alter an object's position in a cosmic sense.
Atmospheric refraction will affect local horizon positions, and produce more accurate skygazing charts. Note that refraction will never affect sign position, because the sign boundaries will be refracted too (although refraction does mean that zodiac signs no longer appear as 12 equal sized wedges covering the celestial sphere, but instead their boundaries appear warped a bit).

House systems are related to the local horizon, in which many house systems have the 1st house cusp be the Ascendant, and the 7th cusp the Descendant. 3D house systems arranged along the prime vertical (such as 3D Campanus, my favorite) take this a step farther, and ensure that all parts of houses 7-12 are above the horizon, and all parts of houses 1-6 are below the horizon. Refraction means that an object that is technically below the horizon, may appear to be above it due to refraction, and therefore (assuming refraction is taken into account) it should be located in one of the upper houses.
Several of our astrological frames of reference are obviously somewhat abstract or idealized, which is not necessarily wrong, since we are referring to an 'idealized world' of archetypes here in the Platonic sense.

That said, different frameworks may be valid in their own right, and there's nothing wrong with experimenting with various approaches and finding out what you get. :)
Michael Sternbach wrote:Most impressive how you continue adding useful and informative features such as this one to your versatile freeware program! :D
Thank you! 8) Astrolog 7.50 introduces atmospheric refraction as a new calculation option, with a new "Local Horizon Positions Apply Atmospheric Refraction" setting. When active, this setting will affect local horizon charts, and things based upon them such as 3D house positions. To compute the effects of refraction, elevation above sea level as well as air temperature at the location need to be taken into account (in order to determine atmospheric pressure which affects refraction). That means they become additional variables to specify for a birth chart (which you can specify in Astrolog in its "Default Chart Info" dialog). Refraction isn't a major effect, and will never "move" a planet more than half a degree, but it can move planets near a 3D house boundary into a different 3D house.
Very cool!

Again, I readily second my own statement (LOL) that the kinds of features Astrolog is providing greatly help us understand what is actually happening "up there", whether or not we decide to consider all those factors in our personal practice - at any rate, this puts as in a position to clarify our own priorities, rather than just following along with this or that system as proclaimed by "authority" so and so. :D
_________________

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56
For the Babylonians in 3000BC, time was measured from the the rotation of the Earth. The first calendars calculated the motion of the Moon with gnomons to come up with a universal time.
Time belonged to astronomers.

In 1905, every day, Einstein was going to work and was walking under the Zytglogge, the landmark medieval tower in Bern. Is it what inspired him a reflexion that simultaneous time does not exist?
This is what the theory of relativity is telling us. Everyone of us has his own time.

Around 1950, atomic clocks started to appear when physicists discovered that every time an atom of caesium is bombarded 9,192,631,770 times, it equates to 1 second.
Today, the management of time is done by physicists.

Time is no longer measured looking at the stars but looking at an atom. Infinity at both end of the spectrum, in the sky and in the matter.
Thanks for delving into the atom Cruiser1 !
Blessings!

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Michael Sternbach wrote:While we are used to thinking that, the deeper we are looking into space, the further we are looking back in time, this presupposes a universal time scale. According to Relativity, c isn't just the speed of light, it is first and foremost the speed of causality! In other words, we are seeing any celestial object as and where it is "now", for all intents and purposes.
Yes, the cosmology of the Universe and its philosophical implications is indeed a very interesting subject! :???: The above is one way of looking at it, at least with respect to physical influences on the physical plane which are subject to physical laws, however many believe that our Universe is much more than just physical influences. Astral or spiritual energies exist too (of which astrological influences should belong in this category). Extraterrestrial UFO's are said to be able to travel through space faster than the speed of light, by actually travelling through space, instead of just sliding across the surface of space like a primitive rocket ship. In other words, there may actually exist a universal time scale (even if time seems to pass faster or slower along that universal scale depending on how much gravity or acceleration you're being exposed to).
Michael Sternbach wrote:This makes sense especially if we consider a celestial object's influence to tie in with its visible light, which some of the ancient astrologers definitely did. On the other hand, I guess an argument could be made that atmospheric refraction is more of a local distortion that doesn't alter an object's position in a cosmic sense.
Another part of Einstein's Relativity is that space is curved. That suggests that atmospheric refraction (or at least gravitational lensing of light around dense objects) is as valid a determinant of direction and therefore astrological influence as anything else. This is especially true if an object's celestial influence is actually tied to the direction its visible light is coming from. Of course, if spiritual influences travel immediately or at a rate different than the speed of light, or if these influences aren't affected by physical gravity or atmosphere, then "true" positions instead of the classic concept of apparent positions would be the more "correct" way to do astrology.
Michael Sternbach wrote:That said, different frameworks may be valid in their own right, and there's nothing wrong with experimenting with various approaches and finding out what you get.
Indeed, there are multiple ways to look at astrology. :D It will be difficult to "prove" methods are right or wrong without detailed statistical analysis of charts, or better yet understanding the true psychic and spiritual forces in our Universe and how exactly they work. Perhaps they're all right, in different circumstances. For example, for local horizon stargazing charts and accurate eclipse timing, we absolutely do want to look at visible light apparent positions, and also take refraction into account. However, for plotting solar system orbits in which there's no "center" or single point of reference, then "true" positions are the way to go.
Astrolog 7.60 freeware downloads: http://www.astrolog.org/astrolog.htm :)

3-d houses

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Cruiser1 wrote:
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Cruiser1 wrote:there are four "3D Equal systems", in which all houses are equal sized 30 degree wedges of the celestial sphere. They are: (1) Any classic Equal system with 2D Ecliptic model. (2) Campanus combined with 3D Prime Vertical model. (3) Horizon houses combined with 3D Local Horizon model. (4) Meridian houses combined with 3D Celestial Equator model. Equal, Campanus, Horizon, and Meridian are therefore special house systems which could be considered "better" than others, since they are the only systems that can be "3D Equal". I like Campanus in 3D Prime Vertical the best, since it's the only system and model that's 3D Equal but can also ensure all parts of houses 1-6 are below the horizon, and all parts of houses 7-12 are above it.
Here's a new animation which shows these four "3D Equal" house systems: Equal, Campanus, Horizon, and Meridian. These four house systems are the only systems defined by covering the celestial sphere with 12 equal sized wedges. The only difference between them is that they align their wedges with different planes. Compare this to the earlier animation posted last year, which shows Porphyry houses in the four models (i.e. arranged along the planes of the ecliptic, prime vertical, horizon, and celestial equator). Porphyry isn't "3D Equal" in any plane, however you do again have "3D Equal" houses when arranging Equal houses along the ecliptic plane, Campanus houses along the prime vertical prime, Horizon houses along the local horizon plane, and Meridian houses along the plane of the celestial equator.

As before, in each sphere the white hatched line is the local horizon, the green hatched line is the meridian, and the gray hatched line is the prime vertical, and these three circles are at right angles to each other and divide the celestial sphere into eight equal sized octants. Also, the purple wedges are the 12 sign boundaries, and the green wedges are the 12 house boundaries (in which the house boundaries are the only thing different between the spheres, to show how the house system in question divides it). All spheres show the Ascendant where the ecliptic intersects the local horizon, the Midheaven where the ecliptic intersects the meridian, and the Vertex where the ecliptic intersects the prime vertical.

Equal (upper left): Equal houses divides the plane of the ecliptic into 12 equal wedges, and has the 12 houses meet at the ecliptic poles (i.e. at the same points where the 12 signs of the zodiac meet). Since standard 2D wheel charts display along the plane of the ecliptic, this system is "2D equal" as well as "3D equal", and has all house cusps 30 degrees apart. Equal is a "2D house system", since the house boundaries are parallel with the ecliptic and can be described by a single zodiac position. This shows standard Equal houses, in which the 1st cusp is always the Ascendant. There are various other Equal systems too, such as Equal houses making the 10th cusp always be the MC, Whole sign houses, or other variations like Balanced Equal houses. In the sphere for Equal, notice how the sign boundaries (in purple) and house boundaries (in green) both meet at the same point.

Campanus (upper right): Campanus houses divides the plane of the prime vertical into 12 equal wedges, and has the 12 houses meet at the North and South points on the local horizon. Campanus is a quadrant system, in which the meridian (containing the MC) is the 10th house boundary, and the Eastern horizon (containing the Asc) is the 1st house boundary. The house wedges are equal sized, however they intersect the plane of the ecliptic at different points, which is why Campanus houses appear to be different sizes when displayed in a 2D wheel chart that shows the ecliptic plane cross section. This is a "3D house system", since the house boundaries pass through multiple zodiac positions, which means ecliptic latitude needs to be checked to determine what house a planet lies within. The 3D model of Campanus is unique, because it's the only Equal system with the nice property that any planet anywhere below the horizon will always be in houses 1-6, and any planet above the horizon will always be in houses 7-12.

Horizon (lower left): Horizon or Azimuth houses divides the plane of the local horizon into 12 equal wedges, and has the 12 houses meet at the Zenith and Nadir points straight up and straight down on the local horizon. Horizon is a "3D equal" system like the others, however it divides the celestial sphere in a non-intuitive manner, in which all 12 houses are each 50% above the horizon and 50% below it. Horizon isn't a quadrant system, because although it has the 10th house always equal to the MC like quadrant systems, the 1st house isn't the Ascendant (although the 7th house cusp will always be the Vertex). Horizon also has the behavior that stepping over the equator flips all houses by 180 degrees.

Meridian (lower right): Meridian houses divides the plane of the celestial equator into 12 equal wedges, and has the 12 houses meet at the North and South celestial poles above the Earth's North and South poles. In a 2D wheel chart, Meridian houses will have the 10th house always equal to the MC like quadrant systems. However, it sets the 1st house to the East Point or Equatorial Ascendant, instead of to the standard Ascendant. In the sphere for Meridian, notice how the East Point is at the point where the ecliptic (in purple) intersects the Meridian 1st house boundary (in green). A green line indicates the celestial equator, which divides all 12 house wedges in half, and which intersects the horizon at the East and West points on the local horizon, and which intersects the ecliptic at the 0Ari and 0Lib points.
==============================
These are amazing 3d renditions, and you've given good descriptions of the system, concentrating on those that divide the sphere equally. They make the good point that these reference system don't exactly 'distort' some ideal picture (God's view?). Taking Campanus for example. Sure, the MC can lie one degree before the Ascendant, and the houses will like be empty of planets (not stars!)--maybe only a couple will be conjunct in the 12th house.
But this is a *real* situation: there are only two planets in the quadrant from the Asc to the MC, that is, to be seen from E to the south point of the horizon. Whatever remains of the ecliptic-- that's S and W--it could be 179 degrees; that span (upper right quadrant), houses 9-7, is where the (above) planets are, if you're looking south and to the right (W).

Of course in interpretation, the emphasis on houses near the horizon *might* be a problem, but arguably self-other issues-- including partnerships-- may be especially important. Of course if one's telling fortunes and wants equal areas for sisters, parents, lovers and servants, this might be unsatisfactory--though the Inuit have few servants.

One question. Your animations rotate around the Zenith, as if we're walking around (the sphere of the moment, on the floor of a museum). Do you have animations that rotate around the North CP and show houses (in various systems) as well?

Thanks for you expert contribution. I once calculated and printed house table, Campanus and Regiomontanus, for the polar regions, to 80N.

Re: 3-d houses

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halw wrote:These are amazing 3d renditions, and you've given good descriptions of the system, concentrating on those that divide the sphere equally. They make the good point that these reference system don't exactly 'distort' some ideal picture (God's view?). Taking Campanus for example.
Yes, I appreciate "3D equal" house systems, which divide the celestial sphere into 12 equal wedges. :D That's nicely symmetric with signs, which also divide the celestial sphere into 12 equal wedges. However, just because we've nicely divided space into 12 equal wedges, doesn't mean that a particular planet will spend equal time within each wedge. Indeed, when the ecliptic is hovering near the horizon plane, the majority of the ecliptic path (and therefore planets on or near the ecliptic) will be within the horizon aligned 12th/1st/6th/7th houses. However, objects highly inclined with the ecliptic like Pluto, asteroids, and many fixed stars, can still spend a more equal time in each house.

Campanus is a classic "space based" system, and 3D Campanus is the perfect "3D equal" space based system. Note that classic "time based" systems such as Placidus are ultimately space based too, because although they use timings, those timings are eventually used to determine points in space, and those boundaries in space form the (usually different sized) areas of space that belong to each house.

I've given thought to true "time based" house systems, which would be based on (for example) the rising and setting times for each planet or star independently. The house placement of a planet wouldn't be determined by its position in the sky at all, but rather by how long has passed between certain reference times. A true "time based" system of house division could have two planets perfectly overlapping and eclipsing each other, however they could be in different houses, since they took different length paths through the sky to get to their meeting up point! There would be no house cusps in a true time based model of house determination, or rather house cusps would be defined as independent times for each planet, instead of zodiac positions or lines in space that all bodies fit within.
halw wrote:Your animations rotate around the Zenith, as if we're walking around (the sphere of the moment, on the floor of a museum). Do you have animations that rotate around the North CP and show houses (in various systems) as well?
The chart spheres shown above are indeed aligned with the local horizon. They can also be aligned with the ecliptic, if you right mouse click in Astrolog and select "Use Ecliptic Axis". In that sense they're similar to Astrolog's flattened or unrolled local horizon charts. For alignment with the celestial equator and north/south poles, Astrolog has a globe chart, which is similar to the chart sphere but also has the option to draw a map of the world on it. An example of this can be seen below, which also shows Astrocartography lines that are sometimes used in this context. Astrolog's globe chart can also show stars and constellation boundaries while aligned with the celestial equator, if you want a space display more similar to the chart sphere.
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Astrolog 7.60 freeware downloads: http://www.astrolog.org/astrolog.htm :)