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Meghan, Duchess of Sussex - Solar 2022 August
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linchi



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 384

Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:47 pm    Post subject: Meghan, Duchess of Sussex - Solar 2022 August Reply with quote

Meghan, Duchess of Sussex - Solar 2022 August


4 August 1981 at 04:46 (= 04:46 AM )Canoga Park, California, 34n12, 118w36

https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Meghan,_Duchess_of_Sussex


Solar 2022 August (Harmonic 256)

Sun, Venus, Neptune and Node connections show the separation.

solar VE/NE = r VE/MN

solar VE/NE = 1° 11' 51'' - 0° 42' 11'' = 0° 29' 40''
r VE/MN = 0° 29' 27''


solar VE = r NE

solar VE = 0° 27' 25'' + 0° 42' 11'' = 1° 9' 36''
r NE = 1° 9' 31''

solar NE/MN = r SU/VE

solar NE/MN = 0° 19' 16''
r SU/VE = 0° 18' 50''


solar SU/MN = r NE/MN

solar SU/MN = 0° 9' 41''
r NE/MN = 0° 51' 45'' - 0° 42' 11'' = 0° 9' 34''





Harry, Duke of Sussex

15 September 1984 at 16:20 (= 4:20 PM )Paddington, England, 51n32, 0w12

https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Harry,_Duke_of_Sussex


Solar 2022 September (Harmonic 256)

solar SU/NE = solar VE/MN

solar SU/NE = 0° 37' 12''
solar VE/MN = 0° 37' 37''


solar VE = r NE/MN

solar VE = 0° 34' 38''
r NE/MN = 0° 34' 31''


solar VE/NE = r SU/NE

solar VE/NE = 0° 2' 11'' + 0° 21' 05'' = 0° 23' 16''
r SU/NE = 0° 23' 00''


solar SU/VE = r VE/NE

solar SU/VE = 1° 9' 39'' - (0° 42' 11'' + 0° 21' 05'') = 0° 6' 23''
r VE/NE = 0° 6' 23''





If we compare solar for both person, then we see this

Harmonic 256

Radix of Harry (first inner circle)
Solar of Harry (2nd inner circle)
Radix of Meghan (3rd inner circle)
Solar of Meghan (4th outer circle)


Harry`s radix SU/ Maghan`s radix SU = Meghan`s radix NE = Meghan`s solar VE = Meghan`s solar Node = Harry`s radix VE/NE


Harry`s radix SU/ Maghan`s radix SU = 0° 58' 43'' - (0° 42' 11'' + 0° 10' 32'') = 0° 6' 00''
Meghan`s radix NE = 1° 9' 31'' - (0° 42' 11'' + 0° 21' 05'') = 0° 6' 15''
Meghan`s solar VE = 0° 27' 25'' - 0° 21' 05'' = 0° 6' 20''
Meghan`s solar Node = 0° 6' 37''
Harry`s radix VE/NE = 0° 6' 23''


Meghan`s solar VE/NE = Harry`s radix VE

Meghan`s solar VE/NE = 1° 11' 51''
Harry`s radix VE = 1° 11' 27''


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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Linchi, so you are predicting that Harry and Meghan will separate during their 2022 solar return year? Does Harry then return to England?
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linchi



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Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Therese Hamilton wrote:
Linchi, so you are predicting that Harry and Meghan will separate during their 2022 solar return year?

Yes Therese, that's correct.
Quote:
Does Harry then return to England?

I don't know. I have not looked so deeply.
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don’t see marital separation in Harry and Megan’s 2022 solar return charts. Harry has 2Lib41 rising which puts SR Pluto on the nadir. As I don’t know what to do with Pluto, I ignore that placement as it’s not aspecting a natal planet.

The solar return has Jupiter in its own domicile of Pisces 11 deg opposing Mercury at 12Vir45. As Mercury is Harry’s 7th house lord, this would seem to indicate marital harmony.

The other partile aspect in Harry’s SR is Neptune in Aquarius in 6th aspecting the Sun in Leo in 12th, both at 29 degrees. As Harry's natal Sun is in the 9th house in its own star, this is the area of life that Neptune would be affecting. Is this more an erosion of Harry’s royal status, or does this Neptune aspect refer to his father which one Indian system relates to the 9th house? Does this point to health problems for Charles? At any rate this Neptune aspect doesn’t put Charles on the British throne.

SR Neptune is transiting Jupiter’s star. As Harry has Sagittarius rising in his natal chart with Jupiter above the ascendant, Neptune would be affecting him personally. Mental confuson?? An erosion of self image? I don’t know.

Harry’s profection for 2022 is Aquarius, the 3rd house, house of brothers. Lord Saturn is in the 9th from 3rd, exalted in Libra. In Hellenistic astrology the 9th was a house of royalty. In Harry’s SR natal Jupiter and Ascendant are in the 3rd house. Does this place William on the throne?

MEGHAN'S 2022 SOLAR RETURN



(House lines are the centers of 30 degree houses.) Megan’s 2022 solar return indicates a significant negative event, but as I read the chart that event doesn’t refer to her marriage.

Scorpio rises with Mars on the cusp of the 6th house in Bharani, a star of Venus. Venus is in the SR 8th house along with the natal Ascendant and cluster of planets. So the 8th house is strongly emphasized. I think this might be the death of a parent since Venus is lord of Megan’s natal 4th house of parents. In horary astrology the 11th house is the death of the father (8th from 4th), and Venus rules Megan’s 11th house (Taurus).

Natal Neptune is in the degree of Megan’s SR ascendant. Natal Neptune is on Megan’s 6th house cusp, so this repeats the 6th house emphasis in the solar return. Megan’s profection for 2022 is also the 6th house, Sagittarius. I am not sure about natal planets in Megan’s profected houses as she has less than a degree of Cancer rising in her natal chart.

Unfortunately due to memory loss, I can’t bring to mind similar solar returns. So here I’m simply looking at astrological principles without a memory foundation, doing the best I can with guess work.
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linchi



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Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2021 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Therese Hamilton wrote:
I don’t see marital separation in Harry and Megan’s 2022 solar return charts. Harry has 2Lib41 rising which puts SR Pluto on the nadir. As I don’t know what to do with Pluto, I ignore that placement as it’s not aspecting a natal planet.

The solar return has Jupiter in its own domicile of Pisces 11 deg opposing Mercury at 12Vir45. As Mercury is Harry’s 7th house lord, this would seem to indicate marital harmony.

I think, one can also see something negative for marital life.

In the solar :

1- Saturn aspected from its position to Jupiter (3rd house from Saturn) and to Ascendant (10th house from saturn).
2- Jupiter is 6th house ruler (12th house from 7th house) aspecting Mercury which is in 12th house.
3- Mercury is in 12th house and sublord of natal 2nd,4th,6th,8th and 10th house.

Mercury is natal 7th house ruler and is in solar 12th house. I would not consider this positive for marital life.





Quote:
The other partile aspect in Harry’s SR is Neptune in Aquarius in 6th aspecting the Sun in Leo in 12th, both at 29 degrees. As Harry's natal Sun is in the 9th house in its own star, this is the area of life that Neptune would be affecting. Is this more an erosion of Harry’s royal status, or does this Neptune aspect refer to his father which one Indian system relates to the 9th house? Does this point to health problems for Charles? At any rate this Neptune aspect doesn’t put Charles on the British throne.

SR Neptune is transiting Jupiter’s star. As Harry has Sagittarius rising in his natal chart with Jupiter above the ascendant, Neptune would be affecting him personally. Mental confuson?? An erosion of self image? I don’t know.

I would interpret SU = NE as "uncertainty". Venus in solar is in the same house as Sun and a gets square aspect from Mars (7th house ruler) in solar 8th house and from natal Uranus (4th house).

Quote:
(House lines are the centers of 30 degree houses.) Megan’s 2022 solar return indicates a significant negative event, but as I read the chart that event doesn’t refer to her marriage.

I believe it would concern marriage.

(I have used whole sign houses)

1 - Solar Venus in 8th house(Gemini) as 7th house ruler and Gemini is in Natal 12th house. Venus in solar gets a sextile aspect from Mars and Uranus. Mars and Uranus in solar get a square aspect from Saturn.
2 - Solar Venus gets a trine aspect from solar Neptune and solar Neptune gets a square aspect from natal Neptune. That is, all three planets are connected.
3 - Solar Saturn and solar Pluto are in Capricorn (natal 7th house).
4 - 2022-6-20 the ketu-Buhkti Dasa starts and lasts until 2023-5-26. Ketu in solar with moon in 12th house and gets a square aspect from solar Saturn (7th house ) and a trine aspect from Venus (12th solar house ). I find it very negative.




Quote:
Scorpio rises with Mars on the cusp of the 6th house in Bharani, a star of Venus. Venus is in the SR 8th house along with the natal Ascendant and cluster of planets. So the 8th house is strongly emphasized. I think this might be the death of a parent since Venus is lord of Megan’s natal 4th house of parents. In horary astrology the 11th house is the death of the father (8th from 4th), and Venus rules Megan’s 11th house (Taurus).

Natal Neptune is in the degree of Megan’s SR ascendant. Natal Neptune is on Megan’s 6th house cusp, so this repeats the 6th house emphasis in the solar return. Megan’s profection for 2022 is also the 6th house, Sagittarius. I am not sure about natal planets in Megan’s profected houses as she has less than a degree of Cancer rising in her natal chart.

6th house is 12th house of the 7th house. In KP astrology, significators of houses 2,7,11 are to be considered for marriage and the houses 6,12,10,8 are for divorce. I think in Meghan's solar 6,8,12. houses more addressed than other houses. Of course, this may be my subjective opinion.

Quote:
Unfortunately due to memory loss, I can’t bring to mind similar solar returns. So here I’m simply looking at astrological principles without a memory foundation, doing the best I can with guess work.

Thank you Therese, for sharing your thoughts with us.
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn’t post Harry’s chart previously, but since this discussion is continuing, here is Harry’s 2022 solar return according to Fagan school astrologers--placing the natal chart inside the solar return. I think it’s important to see degrees in the charts.



Linchi wrote:
Quote:
I think, one can also see something negative for marital life.

In [Harry’s] solar :

1- Saturn aspected from its position to Jupiter (3rd house from Saturn) and to Ascendant (10th house from saturn).

I would not see this aspect as important because:
Saturn’s aspect to Jupiter is long past by degree,
and this aspect isn't close to the significant areas of equal house cusps. (Meaning no close contact to the ascendant degree in houses.)

Quote:
2- Jupiter is 6th house ruler (12th house from 7th house) aspecting Mercury which is in 12th house.

We seem to have an astrological conflict here. Do we note the importance of Jupiter as 6th house lord or Jupiter itself well placed in its domicile? As this aspect is only in the solar return, I see this aspect of both Jupiter (natal ascendant lord) and Mercury (natal 7th lord) in its exaltation in Virgo as very positive. But also as these planets aren’t close to SR cusps, they’re not actively important for events in the solar return. But the deciding factor is that we don't use solar house lords, only good and bad 'spaces' (houses).

Quote:

3- Mercury is in 12th house and sublord of natal 2nd,4th,6th,8th and 10th house.

I’m not sure it’s correct to transfer sublord rulerships to solar return charts in this way.

Quote:
Therese wrote:
The other partile aspect in Harry’s SR is Neptune in Aquarius in 6th aspecting the Sun in Leo in 12th, both at 29 degrees. As Harry's natal Sun is in the 9th house in its own star, this is the area of life that Neptune would be affecting. Is this more an erosion of Harry’s royal status, or does this Neptune aspect refer to his father which one Indian system relates to the 9th house? Does this point to health problems for Charles? At any rate this Neptune aspect doesn’t put Charles on the British throne.

SR Neptune is transiting Jupiter’s star. As Harry has Sagittarius rising in his natal chart with Jupiter above the ascendant, Neptune would be affecting him personally. Mental confuson?? An erosion of self image? I don’t know.

Linchi replied:
I would interpret SU = NE as "uncertainty". Venus in solar is in the same house as Sun and a gets square aspect from Mars (7th house ruler) in solar 8th house and from natal Uranus (4th house).

In my experience solar return house lords don’t apply except perhaps for the ascendant lord. We stay with natal house rulers. If solar return house lords are used, the results are conflicts that cannot be solved. Astrologers who routinely use solar return charts don't consider return SR house lords to apply. The solar return is basically only a transit chart over the natal chart, so natal planets don't aspect solar planets. Transiting solar planets aspect natal planets.
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Last edited by Therese Hamilton on Sun Oct 10, 2021 2:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MEGHAN’S SOLAR RETURN

Quote:
Therese wrote:
...Meghan’s 2022 solar return indicates a significant negative event, but as I read the chart that event doesn’t refer to her marriage.

Linchi replied:
I believe it would concern marriage.

(I have used whole sign houses)

1 - Solar Venus in 8th house(Gemini) as 7th house ruler and Gemini is in Natal 12th house. Venus in solar gets a sextile aspect from Mars and Uranus. Mars and Uranus in solar get a square aspect from Saturn.

As I said above, we stay with natal house lords, so (using KP), SR Ma/Ur/Ra are transiting Venus star which relates to Natal 4th and 11th, so this aspect can refer to parents rather than the marriage partner. So, yes, the square from Saturn is significant, which can refer to a painful loss as Mars is on the 6th SR cusp.

Quote:
2 - Solar Venus gets a trine aspect from solar Neptune and solar Neptune gets a square aspect from natal Neptune. That is, all three planets are connected.

Neptune is very significant in Meghan’s solar return as natal Neptune is on the ascendant, and SR Neptune is on the 4th cusp. I am not sure what to do with Neptune except that the solar position emphasizes the 4th house: endings.

Natal 6th house is emphasized since Neptune is on the natal 6th cusp.
According to KP then, as Neptune is in Mercury’s star, Mercury house events will manifest (12th and 3rd houses and Mercury in 1st).

Quote:
3 - Solar Saturn and solar Pluto are in Capricorn (natal 7th house).

Saturn by degree is long past having any influence on Meghan’s very early Cancer rising degree. Pluto has passed her ascendant, and is in the star of the Sun. So the effect would be on the 2nd house which has Leo on the cusp, and also the Sun is there with houses expending 15 degrees on either side of the ascendant degree. However, Pluto slowly appraching natal Ketu in the 7th should eventually bring results, but not in this solar return.

Quote:
4 - 2022-6-20 the ketu-Buhkti Dasa starts and lasts until 2023-5-26. Ketu in solar with moon in 12th house and gets a square aspect from solar Saturn (7th house ) and a trine aspect from Venus (12th solar house ). I find it very negative.

It’s important in the SR that Mars in 6th is opposing solar Ketu in 12th, and of course there is the Saturn square. How significant is it that both Mars and Saturn have passed the degree of Ketu which itself continues to move backward? I will stay with the parents here as transiting Ketu is in Jupiter’s star in SR 12th, and natal Jupiter is in the 4th between Pluto and Saturn.

Putting all this together, the probable death or ending of a parent. According to horary rules, this would be the father.

Quote:
Therese wrote:
Scorpio rises with Mars on the cusp of the 6th house in Bharani, a star of Venus. Venus is in the SR 8th house along with the natal Ascendant and cluster of planets. So the 8th house is strongly emphasized. I think this might be the death of a parent since Venus is lord of Megan’s natal 4th house of parents. In horary astrology the 11th house is the death of the father (8th from 4th), and Venus rules Megan’s 11th house (Taurus).

Natal Neptune is in the degree of Megan’s SR ascendant. Natal Neptune is on Megan’s 6th house cusp, so this repeats the 6th house emphasis in the solar return. Megan’s profection for 2022 is also the 6th house, Sagittarius. I am not sure about natal planets in Megan’s profected houses as she has less than a degree of Cancer rising in her natal chart.

Linchi replied:
6th house is 12th house of the 7th house. In KP astrology, significators of houses 2,7,11 are to be considered for marriage and the houses 6,12,10,8 are for divorce. I think in Meghan's solar 6,8,12. houses more addressed than other houses. Of course, this may be my subjective opinion.

We stay with natal house lords, so we need to see what those lords are doing in the solar return chart. If we understand the rules, KP isn’t supposed to be subjective.
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linchi



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Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Therese Hamilton wrote:

I would not see this aspect as important because:
Saturn’s aspect to Jupiter is long past by degree,
and this aspect isn't close to the significant areas of equal house cusps. (Meaning no close contact to the ascendant degree in houses.)

In Vedick astrology it says " Saturn aspected from its position 3rd, 7th and 10th house". They do not say there, depends on how much they are exact.
It is a theory of many in astrology, which are not proven, that only ascendant degree in houses are important and everything else can be ignored.
In my opinion, what is important is that Jupiter 6th house lord is in 6th house and 6th house is for 7th house most negative house for marital life. That this is about Jupiter does not change the negative situation.

Quote:
We seem to have an astrological conflict here. Do we note the importance of Jupiter as 6th house lord or Jupiter itself well placed in its domicile? As this aspect is only in the solar return, I see this aspect of both Jupiter (natal ascendant lord) and Mercury (natal 7th lord) in its exaltation in Virgo as very positive.


I see it double bad that it is about 1st and 7th house rulers and they are in solar 6th and 12th house because 6th and 12th house are negative house for marriage.
Quote:
But also as these planets aren’t close to SR cusps, they’re not actively important for events in the solar return.

As i have written that is not proven that the planets are important if they stand "close to SR cusps" otherwise not. In a horoscope all planets are active and important.

Quote:
I’m not sure it’s correct to transfer sublord rulerships to solar return charts in this way.


If we take everything written is only right way, no progress would be possible in astrology.

Quote:
In my experience solar return house lords don’t apply except perhaps for the ascendant lord. We stay with natal house rulers. If solar return house lords are used, the results are conflicts that cannot be solved. Astrologers who routinely use solar return charts don't consider return SR house lords to apply. The solar return is basically only a transit chart over the natal chart, so natal planets don't aspect solar planets. Transiting solar planets aspect natal planets.

I read again and again, when an astrologer wants to claim something, then start with "In my experience".

My questions :

Which experiences ?
And when did you have this experience ? 10 years ago or 20 years ago ?
could it be that you didn't notice some important aspects ?
For me, sometimes it happens that I notice something that I didn't notice 10 years ago.
Can you give at least one example so that we can check and understand ?


I show here another picture so that we can better see the dimension of the negative of the Harry's Solar.

Solar 2022 - Harmonic 8

solar JU = solar SA = solar ME/PL = solar ME/UR = solar MA/UR = solar VE/UR = solar VE/PL = solar NE = r SU

Here the Jupiter and Saturn are not so far from each other.

solar JU = 25° 59' 48''
solar SA = 25° 35' 24''


solar SA/UR = solar AC = r JU

solar SA/UR = 25° 6' 34'' - 22° 30' 00'' = 2° 36' 34''
solar AC = 2° 35' 06''
r JU = 25° 0' 55'' - 22° 30' 00'' = 2° 30' 55''




For Meghan's solar :

Quote:
Natal 6th house is emphasized since Neptune is on the natal 6th cusp.
According to KP then, as Neptune is in Mercury’s star, Mercury house events will manifest (12th and 3rd houses and Mercury in 1st).

Neptune is in Mercury's star and Neptune's sublord is Saturn. Saturn is 7th and 8th house ruler. Sublords are as important as star lords.
Quote:
Saturn by degree is long past having any influence on Meghan’s very early Cancer rising degree. Pluto has passed her ascendant, and is in the star of the Sun. So the effect would be on the 2nd house which has Leo on the cusp, and also the Sun is there with houses expending 15 degrees on either side of the ascendant degree. However, Pluto slowly appraching natal Ketu in the 7th should eventually bring results, but not in this solar return.

Saturn has not lost its influence. Solar Saturn has many planetary pictures that have to do with marriage.

e.g.

solar SA = solar VE/PL = solar SU/NE = r VE/MN = r SU/VE



Quote:
Putting all this together, the probable death or ending of a parent. According to horary rules, this would be the father.

My focus was directed to her marriage. That's why I didn't investigate if her father could die. It is possible, of course, because Jupiter (also representing father) is involved in the planetary pictures. But it does not mean that if father dies, she cannot separate from the husband.
Quote:
We stay with natal house lords, so we need to see what those lords are doing in the solar return chart. If we understand the rules, KP isn’t supposed to be subjective.

We do not stay anywhere, we always try something new, so that there is progress in astrology. Understanding the rules does not mean that we cannot change or add anything. Otherwise, no one needs research, because everyone has his own bible. We can also take the theories that we have researched, not at our whim, from each astrological school and develop astrology further.
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Linchi, our exchange on Harry's and Meghan's solar return proves one thing: Lacking research data, astrologers can interpret solar return charts any way they choose. So we will wait to see what the events are in 2022-2023. This is not so far away as these days time seems to move very fast. We can hope that Skyscript continues even though it has not kept up technologically. We will certainly want to check back on your recent predictions for the royals here on the sidereal forum.

A key interpretation point is whether or not to use solar return house lords. That should be easy to check using past events.
Quote:

Therese wrote:
In my experience solar return house lords don't apply except perhaps for the ascendant lord. We stay with natal house rulers. If solar return house lords are used, the results are conflicts that cannot be solved.

Linchi replied:
My questions :

Which experiences ?
(...)
Can you give at least one example so that we can check and understand ?

Since we are on the topic of royals, if my time and concentration allow, I can look into significant years for royals. Or perhaps cases from my files. We will see.
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linchi



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Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is what I always write, Therese. The astrologers research almost nothing. Without research, we can forget progress in astrology.

I don't claim to know everything. It wouldn't bother me at all if I were wrong in my predictions. For me, it's important to find out where I made mistakes. For me it is worse to make correct forecast with wrong assumptions because I will not be able to find my mistake. By doing this, I also develop my method further. I see it as an exercise.
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Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Linchi wrote:
Quote:
I don't claim to know everything. It wouldn't bother me at all if I were wrong in my predictions. For me, it's important to find out where I made mistakes. For me it is worse to make correct forecast with wrong assumptions because I will not be able to find my mistake. By doing this, I also develop my method further. I see it as an exercise.

This is how I see my astrological work exactly!! All I can say is that as the years have gone by, every year seems to add more questions about what we don't know and cannot verify.

Then what is astrology? The counseling astrologers say that all that matters is that the client is helped. This is the final conclusion of the authors of the massive (484 pages) 2916 Tests of Astrology: A critical review of hundreds of studies. (Geoffrey Dean et al) As nothing can be proved, astrology simply becomes another helping tool.

My own view is that astrology is a great and precise cosmic science. But we see only small bits of the truth here and there. You have your own work in micro-astrology. Is that part of the puzzle? I can't say because I don't have the mental skill and tools to work in that system for my own verification.
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Linchi, what software program produced Megan's chart with the Scorpio solar return ascendant and planets in the outer wheel and natal planets on the inner wheel with glyphs and degrees (8 October)? It's unusual for software to have this capability.

Also, how are you able to draw aspect lines in your charts?
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linchi



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Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2021 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Therese,
Zet Astrology software I have used, Geo version.

http://zaytsev.com/introduction.html

I use a software for Screen Capture : Snagit

https://www.techsmith.com/screen-capture.html
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Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2021 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Therese Hamilton wrote:
This is how I see my astrological work exactly!! All I can say is that as the years have gone by, every year seems to add more questions about what we don't know and cannot verify.

Then what is astrology?

Astrology is a very complicated and exact science, that we cannot imagine, encompassing all areas of life, human and mundane events, all conditions we know and don't know. The planets and planetary pictures too many meanings, therefore when an astrologer's prediction turns out to be true, mine included, is just a coincidence.
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
Posts: 1782
Location: California, USA

Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Therese wrote:
In my experience solar return house lords don’t apply except perhaps for the ascendant lord. We stay with natal house rulers. If solar return house lords are used, the results are conflicts that cannot be solved. Astrologers who routinely use solar return charts don't consider return SR house lords to apply.

Linchi replied:
I read again and again, when an astrologer wants to claim something, then start with "In my experience".

My questions : Which experiences ?
And when did you have this experience? 10 years ago or 20 years ago?
could it be that you didn't notice some important aspects?
(...)
Can you give at least one example so that we can check and understand?

For research I first study the work of others and test their techniques. If I find a technique effective for prediction, I stay with it. Otherwise I will try new directions. For solar returns my work is based on the discoveries of the early Fagan school siderealists who placed emphasis on planets on chart angles (and I add close aspects to chart angles) and natal chart house lords in return charts. Also it is simple logic that for clear delineation, there cannot be two sets of rulers for each house, natal and solar.

Very close conjunctions/aspects of solar to radix planets are important anywhere in the solar chart.

One topic on which there seems to be universal agreement is child birth and children which come under the 5th astrological house. KP and the Khullar system place the second child in the 7th house. I don’t know if this second child concept is used in western astrology, but it is certainly accurate for my own children.

For Meghan below I am posting two enneads, one each for the birth of her two children. The ennead has exactly the same calculation basis of the natal Sun as in solar returns, but the time period is limited to 40 days. The ennead is Donald Bradley’s discovery near the end of his life. I have tested the ennead in hundreds of return charts. In Meghan’s chart I compare the relevant natal and solar (ennead) house lords. At present I’m limiting relevant aspects to four degrees.

Megan’s ennead for Archie’s birth 6 May 2019



According to KP, the relevant houses for childbirth are the 5th with support from the 2nd (increase in family) and 11th. Mars is Meghan’s radix 5th house lord, the Sun rules the 2nd and Venus is 11th lord. We find all these natal rulers in prominent positions in the ennead chart:

Radix Mars, 5th house lord is at the nadir, and also ennead Mars is in the degree of radix Fortuna in the Sun’s star (radix 2nd house lord).

Transiting Sun, radix 2nd house lord, is on the ennead ascendant and radix Sun is on the 5th house cusp (4 degree orb) Ennead Mars (radix 5th lord) is in the Sun’s star.

Radix Venus, 11th house lord is in the ascendant degree, trine radix Mars at the nadir. (This aspect is apparently more important than Venus in the 12th.)

In addition radix Jupiter, the indicator of children, is angular on the 7th ennead cusp. Transiting Rahu on the radix ascendant is in the star of Jupiter, sub of Venus.

Testing ennead house lords:
Ennead 5th lord is the Moon in the 12th house of loss.
Ennead 2nd lord is Mars, not near a cusp or aspecting an angle.
Ennead 11th lord is Saturn conjunct Ketu and Pluto.

Megan’s ennead for Lillilbet’s birth 4 June 2021



There are four radix house lords in Megan’s radix that apply to a second child’s birth:
Mars, 5th lord
Saturn, 7th lord (second child)
Sun, 2nd lord
Venus, 11th lord

From this ennead we see that the 7th lord is as important as the 5th lord for a second child’s birth. 7th radix lord Saturn in its own domicile is at the nadir, the same position as Archie’s 5th lord in his ennead birth chart. In Lillibet’s ennead transiting Mars has come to the partile conjunction with 5th lord radix Mars (5 minute orb).

Radix 11th lord Venus is part of the stellium of planets (Sun-Venus-Moon) in ennead 7th house. It’s interesting that this is a female child and Rahu, Venus and the Moon are transiting in the Moon’s star in Taurus. Moon and Venus trine radix Venus/Moon/Jupiter.

As in Archie’s birth, 2nd radix lord Sun is on an ennead angle (10th). Ennead Sun is also transiting its own star.

Testing ennead house lords:
Ennead 5th lord Saturn is on the nadir, but 12th from 5th which is supposed to negate the 5th.

Ennead 2nd and 7th lord is Mars which is on a cusp (9th). However transiting Ketu in ennead 2nd would not point to a child.

Ennead 11th lord is the Sun, too far away from cusp 7 to count as a conjunction.

In summary my research over many years has supported the traditional importance of the ascendant degree around the chart in solar/ennead charts. It is this ascendant degree that distinguishes a chart from others that occur on the same day. I do not see any support for the lords of solar houses. According to the Fagan sidereal school, the doctrine of the importance of angles is supported in charts I have tested as well as very close conjunctions/aspects of solar to radix planets. Solar planets always act ON natal planets and activate them, not the reverse.

(My Raman/Velow houses extend 15 degrees on either side of equal cusps from the ascendant.)
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