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Profections using quadrant houses

 
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Martin Gansten
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:53 am    Post subject: Profections using quadrant houses Reply with quote

The late Robert Zoller taught his students to profect the chart using quadrant (Alcabitius) houses rather than whole signs. I thought he might have learnt that from Bonatti, who was a main source for him, but I can't find any mention of such a variant there. Does anyone know of a Latin or Arabic author who refers explicitly to it?

It seems clear that both profection variants were mentioned in Arabic sources, as both are described in Indian works on Sanskritized Perso-Arabic astrology, but unfortunately those sources are never quoted by name, so identifying them involves a good deal of detective work.
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PaulParal



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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Based on the information from his course, I would assume that he refers to Bonatti. Paraphrasing (page 612, lesson 18): “According to Bonatti, profections are reckoned along the ecliptic (represented herein as λ). One sign (300 of λ) = 1 year. Whole Sign Houses are assumed. We ought to recognize, however, that we are not limited to profecting signs only.”
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Martin Gansten
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, Paul. Here Zoller confirms that Bonatti (like most medieval and early modern authors) is using a profection of 30 equal (zodiacal) degrees a year, which is what I found as well. But I think I am right in saying that Zoller also taught profection by quadrant houses. Whether that is the case or not, I am actually more interested in the medieval sources. Do you, or does anyone, recall seeing this discussed in such sources?
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Martin Gansten
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did find a brief discussion of this in Abū Maʿshar (translated in Ben Dykes's Persian Nativities IV, pp. 433 f.). Additional suggestions are still welcome, though.
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Paul
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if Zoller had this in mind or not, recognising he was one of the 'three Bobs' of Project Hindsight, but I do believe that if we go earlier than the Medieval era, Valens is an example of profections via quadrant division (likely Porphyry, but possibly an Alcabitius-like division via rising times).

If anyone is interested, an example of this is Book V:9 (p.105 in Riley's translation).

The examples provided at the end of this example seem to be clearly describing a system in which whole sign profections can be coupled with profections via quadrant division.

I'll let people make up their own mind on this.
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Ouranos



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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anthony@sevenstarsastrology.com mentions on this link
https://sevenstarsastrology.com/astrological-predictive-techniques-5-persian-degree-based-style-profections/

Section 'Origins'
"This style of profections appears to have started in the 8th century CE with certain Persian astrologers. It is noted in the work of Umar al-Tabari. Abu Ma’shar (active in the 9th century CE) also famously used this type of profecting in both natal and mundane work. The 10th century CE astrology al-Qabisi (Alchabitius), as well as later medieval and Renaissance European astrologers, also profected in this manner. However, Masha’allah, of the 8th century CE, used the Hellenistic style profections discussed in the first article."

More details on the link above
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Martin Gansten
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Paul and Ouranos. The article linked to by Ouranos is actually not on profection by quadrant houses, but by equal (zodiacal) degrees. The only thing I'd disagree with, or at least question, is that this was a Persian innovation. I know the common idea today is that Greek-language authors made a sort of quantum leap of one sign on every birth day, but I'll believe that when I see it actually stated in a text...
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