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How to know when a prohibition isn’t preventing the event?

 
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maleja.rangel



Joined: 05 Apr 2021
Posts: 38
Location: Bogotá

Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:16 pm    Post subject: How to know when a prohibition isn’t preventing the event? Reply with quote

Hello! I have been looking for for information in the forum about how to know when a prohibition isn’t really preventing something to happen but it’s just retarding the outcome and I have found some information but not a clear one.

A prohibition not necessarily means that the matter wont happen if other factors are ok. For example the strength of the significators, the dignities, the aspect making to the planets prohibiting, if the planets receive or not the significators.

In my case, Moon is in Libra (conjunct MC) exalting Saturn in his own sign, not rx, in a sucedent house and making an aspect by trine. To me it will give a pretty strong yes to whatever the person asked. But thing here that I find quite funny is that Mercury in Sag (detriment and combust sun) and Sun in Sag (both in a cadent house) will sextile Saturn first .. and then this two will make a sextile with the moon…. Is this a strong thing to say that will prohibit whatever the person asked? Because before Saturn and Moon can form the trine, will both make the sextiles to Sun and Mercury, plus Sag isn’t really a malefic sign… I read that Sun and Mercury by nature can’t really prohibit something but I’m not really sure how can I really know it is prohibiting or just retarding the matter.


Some feedback or information would be really helpful

Thank you so much 😊
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johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1583

Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A chart (and the question) would be of much help! Very Happy
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 1190

Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think you are going to get the clear answer that you are looking for regarding whether something will be delayed or denied. As Bonatti said it depends and sometimes does not lead to perfection. You would expect a problem represented by the interposing planets and to try to work through them.

IMO, I don't think this would be shown if it was hopeless. If it were hopeless there would be no aspect between signifcators.


https://www.skyscript.co.uk/tobyn2.html


Quote:
An interesting idea to be gleaned from the tradition regarding prohibition is that it prevents a perfection until the interposing planet starts to separate from the receiving significator. The interposition may not completely deny the perfection, but only delay it (Bonatti's "In this way the matter in question can be destroyed, or else there is still hope"). However, in example 5 above, as Mercury square Saturn without major reception suggests, the man's desire to build the extension could end at the site visit with a bad report to come from the planning officer. It must be remembered that Bonatti called this section of his text "on the prohibition of conjoining and wherefore matters are sometimes not perfected". In Bonatti's 'spatial' approach, the possibility of a complete denial of perfection, rather than a delay, may depend on a hierarchy of aspects and on reception. For Lilly, it is a case of using his 'whole natural key to all of astrology' to determine the friendliness or otherwise of the interposing planet, and the quality of perfection according to the condition of the significators and their receptions.
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Ouranos



Joined: 28 Mar 2020
Posts: 681

Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The article of Tobyn is a good and comprehensive approach to prohibition.
Also useful is the article of Deborah Houlding
'Bonatti's Table of Perfection'
https://www.skyscript.co.uk/digintro.html
The link is broken. I got a 404 error.

In it she says
** A planet will only 'receive' an aspect if that aspect comes from a place where it is dignified. It will not 'receive' an aspect from a place where it experiences debility or detriment. There is no such thing as 'reception by detriment'.

This being said, the Moon in Libra comes from a dignity of Saturn and the trine will prevail but not without a delay or an interference from Sun/Mercury.
But without the need to intervene (trine).
_________________
Blessings!
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 1190

Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
A chart (and the question) would be of much help! 


I asked to not share personal love horaries and to stick to the astrological questions of those matters so maleja may be following my request, which is much appreciated!

Quote:
This being said, the Moon in Libra comes from a dignity of Saturn and the trine will prevail but not without a delay or an interference from Sun/Mercury.
But without the need to intervene (trine).


I agree that being received is helpful but would add that the querent would have to initiate as Saturn is a superior and typically would not initiate but would reciprocate to something that is brought to it. Saturn always comes with some difficulty on its own though and often delay! Moon in Libra is on the energy level of Saturn but Saturn is not bringing much for the Moon. It seems rather one sided in the trine but a trine is a good aspect. I would expect some disappointment for Moon though and they may be dysfunctional and out of their element. I often think of Moon-Saturn as the Moon bringing all of the energy, life and possibility and Saturn feeding off of it a bit and with this reception that seems true too. Saturn does bring stability though and can work well with the Moon with time and communication and patience about wants and needs for both people.
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johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1583

Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As said, a chart would have been of help, even without the question (if this
had actually been a personal love question at all).

Because then it would have been clear, that these remarks are misleading
(provided the question is about the current constellation).

Quote:
[...] Moon is in Libra (conjunct MC) exalting Saturn in his own sign, not rx, in a sucedent house and making an aspect by trine. [...] But thing here that I find quite funny is that Mercury in Sag (detriment and combust sun) and Sun in Sag (both in a cadent house) will sextile Saturn first .. and then this two will make a sextile with the moon….[...] Because before Saturn and Moon can form the trine, will both make the sextiles to Sun and Mercury, [..]


The Moon will come to the trine of Saturn in 8°54, but not before the Moon
had come to the sextiles of the Sun (7°56) and Mercury (8°24).

So the the order of the aspects is:
the Moon comes
1. to the sextile of the Sun
2. to the sextile of Mercury
3. to the trine of Saturn.

And after these constellations:
4. Mercuy comes to the sextile of Saturn in 8°55
5. the Sun comes to the sextile of Saturn 8°58.
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 1190

Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
So the the order of the aspects is:
the Moon comes
1. to the sextile of the Sun
2. to the sextile of Mercury
3. to the trine of Saturn.

And after these constellations:
4. Mercuy comes to the sextile of Saturn in 8°55
5. the Sun comes to the sextile of Saturn 8°58.


Yes, it is important to follow which planet is the one being prohibited because that is the planet that is encountering the obstacle. It can also be more complicated than just an obstacle. It could be new information presented about the subject matter that alters the querent's initial goal. It may not always be a negative and could even benefit the querent in some way, even if it might hinder the initial question. For example, a sextile between Moon and Sun with Sun in Sag is often a positive aspect for the querent in some way, since they are both luminaries and are life-giving and opportunity driven.
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maleja.rangel



Joined: 05 Apr 2021
Posts: 38
Location: Bogotá

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry for taking so long to answer, I didn’t get the messages I always get when someone reply.

Wow, thank you so much for the all information you just gave me Tannit, Ouranos and Johannes. It’s wonderful always learning something from all of you.

I made a mistake thinking all the planets interfering would be “many” prohibitions, but now I know that is the sun who is making the “interference”. I also checked what Johannes did, so thank you for remarking it because probably I wouldn’t have found that it’s important to follow which planet is the one prohibiting.

In this case Tannit, would you recommend me to initiate and not to expect for the moon to act? It’s been a tought process and very well represented by Saturn, lots of difficulties and lots of delays. The situation itself isnt hopeless but it’s been a long road, like everything is good and then something bigger come up…. Probably the sun being in a cadent house isn’t the best, but I’m glad that is an good sign like Sag and have some dignity.


Thank you again. 🙏
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