25 by srsedna People die unexpectedly every day all the time around the world; you just took a collective factor like mass vaccination and drew up a correlation. It's like taking a sample of English people who died shortly after 5 PM and concluding that tea is deadly. There should be at least a huge, randomized control sample of people without any of those planetary pictures who didn't die. Quote Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:18 am
26 by Michael Sternbach Martin Gansten wrote:No, Michael, it is not fair enough to state that 'in this "vaccination" there is also a deadly virus': it is a false statement, and scaremongering. Yes, all vaccines have some side effects, and no, of course we can't know the long-term effects of something that has only recently come into existence. But Linchi was explicitly speaking of mRNA vaccines, not of the varieties you mention, so I won't go down the path of discussion you opened, which is legitimate enough in itself but not, in my view, what Skyscript is for. Martin, I really don't wish to belabour the issue, but it wasn't me who opened this path of discussion, and as it stands, there are a few things that warrant clarification. Yes, Linchi referred to mRNA vaccines specifically as containing viruses, which is false, as a matter of fact. However, that was in reply to your post: Martin Gansten wrote:There is no deadly virus contained in the vaccines used against Covid-19. To which I answered independently that some of those vaccines indeed contain a virus that probably caused the death of some people inoculated with it, as even orthodox medicine admits. This is not about scaremongering, only about presenting a more balanced view, so that readers of this thread (insofar they would be influenced by it at all) can make a more informed decision. It is exactly guilt inducing arguments like: If you manage to convince even one weak-minded person to abstain (on the basis of a theory involving non-existent planets!) from that protection, you are taking their life in your hands. that are making it so difficult to have an open and constructive discussion about the topic today. I don't doubt you and others of your mind having the intention to protect people, but remember that critics like me have that very same intention at heart, only we are seeing things from a different perspective. If there were a deadly virus in the mRNA vaccines, 83% of the Swedish population above age 12 (by yesterday's count) would have been infected with it at least twice, and the remaining 17% would be busy digging mass graves. No further comment necessary. Anyone is free to make his/her own choices and to hold whatever beliefs he/she likes. But, to take another example, if someone were to claim to have proved astrologically (even using planets that actually exist) that Donald Trump won the 2020 election, it would still be misinformation. If it proved anything, it would be that the astrological methods used were flawed. It would not risk directly affecting anyone's health, though, so it would arguably be less objectionable. A more thorough survey would try to ascertain what type of vaccine each of the deceased had received. I would assume that at least some of them must have been exposed to a viral vector vaccine. It could also be considered if the planetary picture indicating a virus should perhaps be extended to include another type of potentially malevolent genetic information (mRNA) in today's world. Of course, on a personal level, each of us is free to reject the methodology of the Hamburg school (or any other) in general, however, this is hardly pertinent to the current thread as the basic validity of this or that technique is not what it's about. And to put an additionl astrological spin on my post, let's consider that Mercury is retrograde right now. Michael Last edited by Michael Sternbach on Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:59 am, edited 1 time in total. _________________ Visit my blog: https://michaelsternbach.wordpress.com/ Quote Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:54 am
27 by Michael Sternbach Mark wrote:Linchi wrote: Do you realise that there is no difference between you and 1940s Germany when you ban my examples ? But I am sure you will find a "suitable" argument. That is quite a strong reaction. The analogy with Nazi Germany lacks any objectivity. I can give you my assurance having you be lined up before a firing squad, imprisoned and tortured to death or having all your family exterminated exceeds my humble authority as a moderator here. Hi Mark, It's good to see you taking this with a (wicked) sense of humour! This moderator agrees that the OP's remark was rather inappropriate. Then again, As for the criticism on censorship it is problematic when we get into highly controversial and politicised areas like the pro or anti-vaccine debate. Speaking as the mundane forum moderator I have sometimes had to limit discussion in the past when it strays away from actual astrology and gets too politicised. I accept your post here did have actual astrological content which is a bit different. However, your approach does seem like something of an astrological cherry picking exercise. Over half the population of planet earth (4 billion people) have now received a vaccine jab. So you sample is far too microscopic to prove anything statistically on a collective level. Mark Trying to statistically prove anything at all in astrology is difficult, all we can hope to do is here and there showing certain correlations between what is happening 'above' and 'below'. _________________ Visit my blog: https://michaelsternbach.wordpress.com/ Quote Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:16 am
28 by Martin Gansten Any discussion of moral responsibility can be accused of being guilt-inducing, but that does not negate the existence of moral responsibility. The greater the potential consequences of a statement, the more important it is to make sure that it is true (and preferably made in a helpful manner). What made me react was a false statement which, if believed, could have major consequences for someone's health choices. It's as simple as that. Continued research into vaccines and their potential side-effects is very important, but that research is not going to be done by astrologers. If Linchi were trying to prove the correctness of his astrological theories by correlating 'planetary pictures' with known causes of death, that would be one thing; but when, on the contrary, he takes those theories as his starting point and claims to prove people's cause of death with them, the moral aspect of the exercise really can't be ignored. https://astrology.martingansten.com/ Quote Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:37 am
29 by Martin Gansten srsedna wrote:People die unexpectedly every day all the time around the world; you just took a collective factor like mass vaccination and drew up a correlation. It's like taking a sample of English people who died shortly after 5 PM and concluding that tea is deadly. There should be at least a huge, randomized control sample of people without any of those planetary pictures who didn't die. I overlooked this post before. Thank you for pointing this out. It should be obvious, but it clearly needed saying. https://astrology.martingansten.com/ Quote Mon Jan 24, 2022 1:14 pm
30 by linchi Martin Gansten wrote: Continued research into vaccines and their potential side-effects is very important, but that research is not going to be done by astrologers. Why not ? Do you decide or is there a list somewhere that shows which topics may or may not be researched astrologically ? If Linchi were trying to prove the correctness of his astrological theories by correlating 'planetary pictures' with known causes of death, that would be one thing; but when, on the contrary, he takes those theories as his starting point and claims to prove people's cause of death with them, the moral aspect of the exercise really can't be ignored. There are two opinions on whether this vaccine cures or harms. If you continue to claim that your opinion is the only correct one and everyone else must agree with you, then there is no reason to talk. I don't think my research could influence anyone, firstly because my methods don't produce proper results, as with Trump, and secondly because I work with "non-existent planets". So I don't think you should be worried. https://archive.org/details/@cemalcicek Quote Mon Jan 24, 2022 1:19 pm
31 by Martin Gansten linchi wrote:Martin Gansten wrote: Continued research into vaccines and their potential side-effects is very important, but that research is not going to be done by astrologers. Why not ? Because you are not qualified for it, just as an immunologist is not qualified to research astrological topics. Having an astrological theory, whether old or new, mainstream or not, does not make you omnicompetent. There are two opinions on whether this vaccine cures or harms. First, no, the question is a great deal more complex than that. Second, some 'opinions' have vastly more going for them than others. Nearly 10,000,000,000 shots of Covid-19 vaccine have now been administered worldwide. Any meaningful opinion on whether they are more helpful or harmful needs to be based on statistics on that sort of scale. And people are doing it, but not on Skyscript. https://astrology.martingansten.com/ Quote Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:32 pm
32 by linchi Example 64 : C. J. Hunter Cottrell James Hunter III was an American shot putter and coach. Born : 14 December 1968 Died : 28 November 2021 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._J._Hunter Secondary Progression (Harmonic 16) p ZE = p SU/UR = r SU/NE Example 65 : Florian Hueter Florian Hueter (33), Swarco Raiders Tirol American Footballer. Born : 9 June 1988 Died : 3 December 2021 https://www.bestattung-sarg.at/sterbefa ... an-hueter/ Secondary Progression (Harmonic 16) p SU/ZE = p UR/ZE = r NE/ZE Example 66 : Wouter Betjes Wouter Betjes (14), student hockey player. Born : 12 October 2007 Died : 4 December 2021 https://www.memori.nl/gedenkplaats/wouter-betjes/ Secondary Progression (Harmonic 16) p UR = p NE/ZE = r SU/UR Example 67 : Navid Khosh Hava Navid Khosh Hava was an Iranian professional footballer who played as a defender. Born : 20 July 1991 Died : 4 December 2021 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navid_Khosh_Hava Solar Return (Harmonic 16) solar SU/ZE = solar UR/NE Example 68 : Xavier Ziani Xavier Ziani was a French professional volleyball player. Born : 25 October 1972 Died : 4 December 2021 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xavier_Ziani Secondary Progression (Harmonic 16) p SU/ZE = p UR/NE Example 69 : Pavel Karpf Pavel Karpf was a Swiss professional footballer who played as a goalkeeper. Born : 10 May 1969 Died : 10 December 2021 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavel_Karpf Solar Return (Harmonic 16) solar SU/UR = solar UR = r NE Example 70 : Matt Scherer Matt Scherer was an American track and field athlete and a top professional pacemaker. Born : 21 November 1983 Died : 09 December 2021 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Scherer Solar Return (Harmonic 16) solar SU/UR = solar NE = r UR Example 71 : Sulamai Aukuso Lavea Sulamai Aukuso Lavea , NZ origin Rugby League player Born : 21 November 1983 Died : 09 December 2021 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiU13wWsMA4 Secondary Progression (Harmonic 16) p SU/NE = p UR/ZE Example 72 : Andres Melendez Andres Melendez (20), Cleveland Guardians minor league Baseball player. Born : 20 May 2001 Died : 14 December 2021 https://celebsaga.com/mlb-player-andre-melendez-death/ Secondary Progression (Harmonic 16) p SU = p UR/ZE = p UR/NE Example 73 : Taniela Moa Taniela Moa (11 March 1985 – 16 December 2021) was a Tongan rugby union player. Born : 11 March 1985 Died : 16 December 2021 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taniela_Moa Solar Return (Harmonic 16) solar UR/ZE = solar NE = r UR/ZE = r UR/NE = r SU Example 74 : Dani Chabrera Daniel Chabrera Ríos more commonly known as Dani, is a professional Spanish footballer turned coach who played and coaches as a goalkeeper. Born : 17 February 1992 Died : 16 December 2021 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Chabrera Solar Return (Harmonic 16) solar UR/ZE = solar SU/NE Example 75 : Leo Forstenlechner Leo Forstenlechner (12), Gunners Ice Hockey player. Born : 23 June 2009 Died : 17 December 2021 https://gazettenetworth.com/leo-forsten ... esanzeige/ Solar Return (Harmonic 16) solar SU/UR = SU/ZE = r NE Example 76 : Jordan Young Jordan Young (27), Iowan mixed martial arts rising star. Born : 23 November 1994 Died : 18 December 2021 https://celebsaga.com/jordan-young-deat ... wikipedia/ Solar Return (Harmonic 16) solar SU/NE = r SU/UR = SU/ZE Example 77 : Kimera Bartee Kimera Anotchi Bartee was an American professional baseball outfielder and coach. Born : 21 July 1972 Died : 20 December 2021 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimera_Bartee Secondary Progression (Harmonic 16) p UR = r SU/ZE = r NE/ZE Example 78 : Michal Rokicki Michal Rokicki was a Polish swimmer, who specialized in freestyle events. Born : 31 March 1984 Died : 20 December 2021 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micha%C5%82_Rokicki Solar Return (Harmonic 16) solar NE = solar SU/UR = r NE/ZE Example 79 : Marin Cacic Marin Cacic (23), NK Nehaj Footballer. Born : 1 January 1998 Died : 21 December 2021 https://www.kurir.rs/sport/fudbal/38362 ... arin-cacic Solar Return (Harmonic 16) solar SU/UR = solar UR/NE = solar UR/ZE Example 80 : Adrien Sandjo Adrien Sandjo , U19 Piedmont and Valle d’Aosta regional team footballer. Born : 19 September 2003 Died : 22 December 2021 https://www.sprintesport.it/news/2021/1 ... to-516226/ Secondary Progression (Harmonic 16) p SU/ZE = p UR/NE Example 81 : Daniel ‘Crunch’ Broussard Daniel ‘Crunch’ Broussard (53), Flag Football, Basketball, and Softball player. Born : 14 April 1968 Died : 27 December 2021 https://www.echovita.com/us/obituaries/ ... r-13952689 Solar Return (Harmonic 16) solar SU/UR = solar UR/NE = solar ZE = r UR/ZE Example 82 : Hugo Maradona Hugo Hernán Maradona , also known as El Turco, was an Argentine football player and coach. Born : 9 May 1969 Died : 28 December 2021 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Maradona Solar Return (Harmonic 16) solar SU/ZE = solar UR = r UR/NE = r UR/ZE Example 83 : Ahmed Daham Ahmed Daham Karim was an Iraqi football manager and player who played as a midfielder. Born : 12 October 1967 Died : 29 December 2021 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Daham Secondary Progression (Harmonic 16) p SU/UR = p SU/NE = r SU/NE = r UR = r ZE Example 84 : Vadim Khamuttskikh Vadim Anatolyevich Khamuttskikh was a Russian volleyball player, who was a member of the men's national team that won the silver medal at the 2000 Summer Olympics in Sydney, Australia and the 2007 European Championship in Moscow, Russia. Born : 26 November 1969 Died : 31 December 2021 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vadim_Khamuttskikh Solar Return (Harmonic 16) solar NE/ZE = r SU/ZE = r UR/ZE Example 85 : Mateo Hernandez Mateo Hernandez , Dimurol Salesianos Tenerife Football goalkeeper. Born : 5 October 1998 Died : 11 January 2022 https://starsinfocity.com/mateo-hernand ... -of-death/ Solar Return (Harmonic 16) solar SU/UR = r NE/ZE Example 86 : Clint Arlis Clint Arlis (34), Batavia All-Time great wrestler. Born : 29 July 1987 Died : 11 January 2022 http://thewikistand.com/wiki/clint-arlis-wikipedia/ Solar Return (Harmonic 16) solar SU/UR = solar NE/ZE Example 87 : Shebby Singh Serbegeth "Shebby" Singh was a Malaysian professional footballer who played as a defender. Born : 20 August 1960 Died : 12 January 2022 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shebby_Singh Secondary Progression (Harmonic 16) p SU/UR = p UR/NE = p ZE = r SU/NE Example 88 : Jude Michael Little Jude Michael Little (15), Unioto High School basketballer. Born : 14 March 2006 Died : 12 January 2022 https://sciotovalleyguardian.com/2022/0 ... el-little/ Secondary Progression (Harmonic 16) p SU/NE = p UR/ZE = r UR/ZE Example 89 : Sean Rice Sean Rice was a Canadian pair skater who also competed in the fours discipline. Born : 20 July 1972 Died : 14 January 2022 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Rice Secondary Progression (Harmonic 16) p UR/NE = p NE/ZE = r SU Example 90 : Maurice Grooms Maurice Grooms (AGE), Strength & PE instructor, teacher and coach at Stewarts Creek High School. Born : 20 July 1972 Died : 14 January 2022 https://www.echovita.com/us/obituaries/ ... s-14055545 Secondary Progression (Harmonic 16) p SU/ZE = p NE/ZE = p UR Example 91 : Jamie Vincent Jamie Roy Vincen was an English professional footballer who played as a defender. Born : 18 June 1975 Died : 16 January 2022 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamie_Vincent Secondary Progression (Harmonic 16) p SU/NE = r NE/ZE = r UR/NE Example 92 : Jordan Michallet Jordan Michallet was a French rugby union player who played at the fly-half position. Born : 10 January 1993 Died : 18 January 2022 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Michallet Solar Return (Harmonic 16) solar UR/NE = r SU/ZE I have worked through all the examples that have been given so far. As I already wrote, one cannot find a date of birth for many people who are listed there. https://archive.org/details/@cemalcicek Quote Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:40 pm