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Oil and natural gas are signified by...

 
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Dima Gur



Joined: 12 Dec 2014
Posts: 72
Location: Israel

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2022 8:03 pm    Post subject: Oil and natural gas are signified by... Reply with quote

Hey everyone,

I'm familiar with Neptune's association with Oil (the black liquid which makes countries rich).
But via a quick reflection it seems to me that oil is much better described by Pluto, rather than Neptune.

It's found deep inside the earth, it's black, it causes nations to become rich ("rich like Hades" as the old saying went) and normally it's hidden from sight. It's also usually connected to big firms which are able to raise enough capitol to start mining operations.

Oil is indeed also found at sea (Neptune), but otherwise it seems to be missing the mark in terms of significations.
Natural gas though, is also found at sea and is invisible (Neptune). Thus natural gas, unlike petro-chemical oil, may be signified by Neptune.

later edition: petroleum is large layers of dead micro-organisms (Pluto), so in a way it strengthens the case for the god of the underworld.

What are your thoughts?
Peace,
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
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Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2022 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't answer this from any text but Saturn lords the earth and land, and oil and natural gas come from that. I would assign Saturn. Deb assigns oil to the 4th house which to me again speaks of Saturn because the 4th is again land and foundation and depths of the earth. If it is a mundane chart you could probably just use the 4th house/lord to answer your question.

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/index_list.html
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Dima Gur



Joined: 12 Dec 2014
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Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2022 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed from a traditional perspective Saturn and the 4th make a lot of sense.
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Ouranos



Joined: 28 Mar 2020
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Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2022 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Petroleum is defined as a complex mixture of hydrocarbons that occur on Earth in liquid, gaseous, or solid form. Coming from the ground, it makes sense as a 4th House.
When refined, gas is a state of matter that has no fixed shape and no fixed volume. So it is very volatile and produces toxicity levels. (Neptune)

Here are some rulerships from 'The Rulership Book' of Rex E. Bills
-- Sand, asphalt and fossil petroleum = Saturn
-- Red sand = Mars
-- Oil and Gas = Neptune
-- Oil pools = Pluto, Scorpio
-- Oil crude = Mars, Pluto


Sept 1, 1905 0h Edmonton, AB - Timed documented source, news.
Birth chart of Alberta, Canada, the 4th largest oil reserve in the world estimated at 165.4 billion barrels.

Neptune on the ASC sextile MercuryL4 in rulership on the cusp of the 4th in a Grand Square, hence the high level of activity and the controversy the industry is facing in Canada.
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Mark
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Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2022 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most Western modern astrologers tend to assign oil to Neptune.

Vedic astrologers seem to usually assign Saturn.

William Lilly actually puts oil under the rulership of Jupiter in Christian Astrology p.354.

However, I have had similar thoughts about Pluto being significant too. Especially when you look at fluctuations in prices.

Maybe we need to distinguish between oil in its crude state and refined condition?

I have some data on the first discovery charts for oil and oil spill disasters which may move this discussion along.

Some background history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_petroleum_industry

Kind regards,

Mark
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Martin Gansten
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Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2022 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark wrote:
William Lilly actually puts oil under the rulership of Jupiter in Christian Astrology p.354.

I suspect what Lilly had in mind was the kind of oil used for cooking, though. Jupiter is commonly associated with fat, and oil is followed directly in Lilly's list by honey and quinces, both of which have a golden or yellow colour, so Lilly probably meant oil of a similar use and colour.

I don't know if Lilly or anyone of his time actually writes explicitly about petroleum, but if they did, I'd expect them to assign a black substance extracted from deep within the earth to Saturn.
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Mark
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Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2022 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martin wrote:
Quote:
I suspect what Lilly had in mind was the kind of oil used for cooking, though. Jupiter is commonly associated with fat, and oil is followed directly in Lilly's list by honey and quinces, both of which have a golden or yellow colour, so Lilly probably meant oil of a similar use and colour.


I am not so sure exactly what Lilly had in mind but petroleum is a commonly found liquid utilised from ancient times for diverse purposes ranging from medicinal to building construction.

http://www.dnr.louisiana.gov/assets/TAD/education/BGBB/2/ancient_use.html

Mark
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Martin Gansten
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Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2022 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think anyone disputes that; I just don't recall seeing it mentioned unambiguously in astrology texts. As for the Lilly passage, it is clear that colour is one of his main considerations in assigning objects and substances to the planets:

Quote:
[Saturn] Lead, Iron, Azure, blacke or blew colour, Wooll, blacke Garments, Leather, heavy things, labouring tooles for the Earth: [Jupiter] Oyle, Honey, Quinces, Silke, Silver: [Venus] white Cloth, and white Wine, Green-colour. [Mars] Pepper, Armour, Weapons, red Wine, red Cloathes, Brasse, Horses for Warre, hot things: [Mercury] Books, Pictures, implements : [Sun] Gold, Oringes, Brasse, Carbuncles, yellow-Cloathes: [Moon] ordinary and common Commodities.

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Wade



Joined: 20 Jul 2013
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Location: New York, NY (USA)

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2022 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grateful for this conversation, as I was hunting this information down myself. I'm writing about the 1970s oil crisis for the TMA, and wanted to get a gut-check on what I was seeing.

Saturn makes the most sense to me – it's pitch black, comes from the earth from the fossils of dead things, is only created under conditions of great pressure, has to be mined from the earth and humanity's use of it is generally understood to be a leading contributor to environmental catastrophes the world over.

Martin's take on the Lilly passage make sense to me.

Given oil's link to wealth, I would wager Jupiter may still show up in astrology related to oil, particularly Jupiter in Saturn's signs (Libra, Capricorn, Aquarius).
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Dima Gur



Joined: 12 Dec 2014
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Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2022 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, this suddenly took off.
Haven't been on Skyscript in a while.

Martin: yes - Jupiter, oil and fat. Also it rules fat in medical astrology (fat in the body) as far as I know.

Wade: yes - Saturn from a traditional perspective would make a lot of sense.
No intention to raise up a ruckus in such a traditional setting, but Pluto always seemed to me like the form Saturn would take in "back to the future".
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Wade



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Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2022 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dima Gur wrote:
No intention to raise up a ruckus in such a traditional setting, but Pluto always seemed to me like the form Saturn would take in "back to the future".


That's true, but oil is not a thing of the future! We may well see something more plutonic emerge; but for now, energy realities mean we're still working through the symbols of Saturn, the antithesis of the Sun.
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Mark
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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2022 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel this is really a mundane topic. Especially, if we want to move this discussion from theoretical assumptions to actual chart examples. Are there any objections from the original poster (Dima Gur) and others to shifting the thread to the mundane forum?

I have relevant data on oil discovery and spills I will share on that forum.

Kind regards,

Mark
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Last edited by Mark on Sun Jul 24, 2022 8:38 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Wade



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Location: New York, NY (USA)

Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2022 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark wrote:
I feel this is really a mundane topic. Are there any objections from the original poster and others to shifting the thread to the mundane forum?

I have relevant data on oil discovery and spills I will share on that forum.


Works for me, Mark! Looking forward to hearing more about your oil case studies.
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