skyscript.co.uk
   

home articles forum events
glossary horary quiz consultations links more

Read this before using the forum
Register
FAQ
Search
View memberlist
View/edit your user profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Recent additions:
The Life & Work of Vettius Valens
by Deborah Houlding
Can assassinations be prevented? by Elsbeth Ebertin
translated by Jenn Zahrt PhD
A Guide to Interpreting The Great American Eclipse
by Wade Caves
The Astrology of Depression
by Judith Hill
Understanding the zodiac: and why there really ARE 12 signs of the zodiac, not 13
by Deborah Houlding

Skyscript Astrology Forum

USA CHART
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Mundane & Financial Astrology
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
yuzuru



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 1395

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
these ‘mean’ conjunctions do not occur in reality! The whole of these considerations is based entirely on a ‘theoretical’ conjunction!


Hi, Steven
so you´re saying we should ignore actual conjunctions in favour of mean ones, right ? So, for example, the conjunctions of 1980 would be in 24 Leo, of 2000 in 27 Aries and of2020 in 29 sagitarius ?
_________________
Meu blog de astrologia (em portugues) http://yuzuru.wordpress.com
My blog of astrology (in english) http://episthemologie.wordpress.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Tom
Member


Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 3507
Location: New Jersey, USA

Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Tom wrote,

Quote:
Frankly I am not persuaded that America became America in 1789 and therefore was something else prior to that. There is more to a country than its independence and its government.


I agree somewhat with that. Before America came 'the religion' and that which was going to frame ideas and laws. That in fact came over a hundred years earlier with Francis Bacon and John Locke. In fact John Locke's writings were probably most significant in the forming of the US.


I vaguely recall from high school or college I've forgotten which, that at least one teacher referred to John Locke as "The true Father of our Country," a title more often given to George Washington (for different reasons). Thomas Jefferson, the author of the Declaration of Independence was a student and admirer of Locke.

However I don't understand what you mean by the first sentence: "Before America came 'the religion' and that which was going to frame ideas and laws." What Jefferson wrote in the Declaration, influenced by Locke, that was different and more eye-popping than John Hancock's signature were the words "We hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights ..."

While all good school children are taught to dwell on the phrase "all men are created equal," it is what followed "endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, ..." that was (and sadly in some places still is) shocking. In other words, rights come from God, not the King or as we would say today not from the state. Therefore, to deprive one of those rights or even to control them (this is a general not an absolutist or anarchic position), is an immoral act. This is a religious statement, or theistic if you prefer, and fundamental to what would and does follow.

As for the other parts I agree that all charts are a starting point and that people, nations, companies develop over time. My only mild disagreement with what you said is the starting point.

Tom

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
robin



Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 47

Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tom,
I see this thread has mutated in interesting and speculative ways.

This may sound like a stupid question, but why is the 1762 conjunction in GMT?

ROBIN
________
Health store


Last edited by robin on Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:55 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tom
Member


Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 3507
Location: New Jersey, USA

Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Robin:

Quote:
This may sound like a stupid question, but why is the 1762 conjunction in GMT?


Because that is how it was given to me and I don't know how to convert GMT to Local Mean Time, and I'm too lazy to putz with astrological software until it works. It is much easier to plug in GMT.

Nothing wrong with that question.

Tom
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
robin



Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 47

Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi tom

i get 11'22 virgo rising, not cancer, for the 1762 (4.41pm) conjunction!

what aren't i understanding here ?

robin
________
MONTANA MARIJUANA DISPENSARY


Last edited by robin on Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:55 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tom
Member


Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 3507
Location: New Jersey, USA

Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Robin,

Check your data and location.

March 18, 1762
4:41 PM GMT
Washington DC
8 Cancer 50 rises

Tom
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
robin



Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 47

Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HI

Same result, i used kepler and astro.com.

Ascendent 11'12' Virgo

??

robin
________
HOW TO ROLL BLUNTS


Last edited by robin on Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:55 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tom
Member


Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 3507
Location: New Jersey, USA

Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I do 4:41 PM LMT I get 5 Virgo 40. I get the feeling Kepler is switching back to LMT. I don't have Kepler, so I can't help you troubleshoot.

You should get 5 Cancer 50 or Janus gives 5 Cancer 49 rising and the Moon at 11 Capricorn 12. I ran the data on both programs to be sure.

The other possibility is that your program is rerouting you to Washington State not Washington, DC. I ran Seattle Washington and got 7 VIrgo rising. There is a Washington in each of the 50 states.

Check your coordinates. They should be:

38 N 54
77 W 02

Tom
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
robin



Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 47

Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi tom

you can play around with the 'time zones' at astro.com

LMT - gives the virgo rising

and

GMT/universal - Gives cancer rising

At astro.com, they use the swiss ephermeris they say
'manual time zone settings are not recommended. Most likely a false chart will be the result'. So not GMT?

So do you think LMT is wrong?



robn
________
Weed Vaporizers


Last edited by robin on Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:56 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tom
Member


Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 3507
Location: New Jersey, USA

Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Robin,

The chart I get using GMT has Cancer rising. I don't know how to convert 4:41 PM GMT to LMT for Washington, DC. But the chart I get has the Moon at 11 Capricorn 12. The Sun at 28 Pisces 05, and the conjunction at 12 Aries 21. If the chart you are getting using LMT has the Moon later than 11 Capricorn 12 or the Sun later than 28 Pisces 05 then then your chart is later than mine. Saturn and Jupiter will remain at 12 Aries 21 for some time. The idea is to use the initial moment that they both were at that degree of longitude. I think Solar Fire and Janus use the Swiss ephemeris, but if they don't, that could cause the problem. If the Kepler software uses a different time for the conjunction than mine, that would explain the difference.

Tom
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
robin



Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 47

Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi tom

ok so if you use THE Swiss ephermeris for 4.41 you get

Gmt - 8'50 can 12'21' 19' Jup and sat
Lmt - 11'12' vir 12'24'22' jup and 12'22'54 sat

so after playing about a bit

LMT for the grand conjunction is 11.33am
both at 21'21'19

so have i wasted your time here, apologies?

before looking into the grand conjunction theory i wanted to ensure the chart was right!

robin
________
How To Roll Blunts


Last edited by robin on Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:56 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tom
Member


Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 3507
Location: New Jersey, USA

Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At 11:33 AM LM March 18, 1762 I get 8 Cancer 52 rising. Go for it. That is close enough.

You didn't waste my time. You're exactly right. Always check to see if you are using the correct chart. Recently on two other charts I've found errors, not in the charts, but the astrologers who extracted data from the charts. Mistakes happen.

Tom
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Mark
Moderator


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 5241
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Tom,

I am feeling quite dumb here. I somehow managed to find the two planets first coming together at 09.28.41 on 18/03/1762 for Washington LMT. That gives me a Gemini rising ASC of 08'49.

Where have I gone wrong?

Mark
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
amandaW



Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 423
Location: Wales

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get 8 50 Cancer

using solar fire to list as "transits to transits" the exact conjunction the time is 16.41 GMT in London

Then relocating to Washinton DC
time is 11.31.51 LMT

13 Virgo rises in London though at that moment.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mark
Moderator


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 5241
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks

I clearly should have checked an emphemeris rather than twiddling with solar fire manually for this kind of fine tuning!

Mark
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Mundane & Financial Astrology All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 3 of 6

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
. Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

       
Contact Deborah Houlding  | terms and conditions  
All rights on all text and images reserved. Reproduction by any means is not permitted without the express
agreement of Deborah Houlding or in the case of articles by guest astrologers, the copyright owner indictated