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Pluto in Capricorn

 
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Marilia Calixto



Joined: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 10
Location: Ceres-Brazil

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 5:22 pm    Post subject: Pluto in Capricorn Reply with quote

With Pluto starting to enter Capricorn, and Capricorn meaning agriculture, the earth itself, political structures and all other structures including that of the earth, it's not difficult to see that, with this Plutonian transit, there will be lots of mass disasters, agricultural crisis, changing in the political and internacional government, it's the earth which goes to a process of transformation, and it will be a plutonian transformation, with all the evil meaning of Pluto. Earth will change, dramatically, with mass disasters, governamental crisis of structures, consequently, the agriculture will suffer and millions of people wont have anything to eat. The next years will be of dispair and mass tragedy. By the end of the transit, with sure, we will have a new earth, completely renowed and changed.
What do you think about this?
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Andrew



Joined: 31 Dec 2004
Posts: 360

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
We will have a new earth, completely renowed and changed.


I'm afraid not. But it's a lovely idea. Except for the mass disasters, agricultural crises, governmental crises, despair and mass tragedy. In other words ... same old same old. And all of this from little old Pluto.
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###



Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 1380

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Earth will change, dramatically, with mass disasters, governamental crisis of structures, consequently, the agriculture will suffer and millions of people wont have anything to eat. The next years will be of dispair and mass tragedy.

How could tiny Pluto bring such massive goings-on just by the sign it's in? After all the scary stuff it finishes with a happy ending. It sounds like it's right out of the Bible.

These days we're seeing the simplistic astrology of the frantic and near-hysterical masses, complete with plenty of cultural guilt to enjoy. As often mentioned, astrology went from 2 to 5 malefics with the addition of the outer planets - and people are loving it. The Nasty Five provide all the eager dread a person could want for a full life. Laughing
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Marilia Calixto



Joined: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 10
Location: Ceres-Brazil

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
How could tiny Pluto bring such massive goings-on just by the sign it's in? After all the scary stuff it finishes with a happy ending. It sounds like it's right out of the Bible.




I didn't mean a happy ending, but, an earth transformed by natural disasters, etc. We really don't know what will be our inheritage when this transit is over. Pluto is tiny, but it's PLUTO. We can not judge the effect of a planet for it's material size, but,for it's astrological meaning.
When it passed trough Sagitarius, religious conflicts came to surface. Yes, it's very simple, but not simplistic.
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###



Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 1380

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Yes, it's very simple, but not simplistic.

As you present it it's very simplistic. You're only talking about Pluto transiting through a sign. Can you tell us why Pluto transiting Capricorn is so special as to cause "mass disasters, governamental crisis of structures, consequently, the agriculture will suffer and millions of people wont have anything to eat. The next years will be of dispair and mass tragedy"? To be blunt, I don't think you can. I think you've caught the fever and are only speaking through the anxiety of the age. You screamed through your entire initial post with bold letters. (I'm close behind you there. I'm ready to start screaming uncontrollably any day now. I need to stay away from the news. Confused )

I remember the thrills of 1983: Pluto entered Scorpio. It entered the sign that nearly all astrologers of the time were convinced it ruled. Now there was something to talk about. "Nuclear" was usually in the discussion (It was during the Ronald Reagan 'tough guy' years. Well, we didn't all blow up (surely a disappointment for some). In fact, things turned out quite nicely. Revisiting what was said and written in the 80s could be embarrassing for quite a few of the self-professed wisdom folks.

Yes, we are in a time of increased major change. You don't have to be an astrologer to figure that out. You do have to turn off, and turn away from, the doom-sayers who are only boosting their egos and income through simplistic astrological explanations.
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Mark
Moderator


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 5250
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Marilia,

You are making quite a few assumptions on what Pluto symbolises in this sign. Personally, I think a lot of the heavy stuff going on right now can be explained by the traditional 7 planets. Especially, Saturn in Virgo and Jupiter in Capricorn. We are also have a Mars /Saturn conjunction coming up this year to add to the pot.

One problem with using the outer planets is that there is no generally accepted dignity/debility based on sign. Traditionalists do not accept Pluto rules or even co-rules Scorpio. This role is assigned only to Mars. For that reason and their invisibility to the naked eye many traditionalists do not use outer planets at all. For those that do they assume a status a bit like fixed stars where the tropical sign they are in is largely irrelevent in terms of being stronger/weaker or more malefic/benefic in expression. However, this is not a traditional forum topic so you are welcome to disagree with either of those approaches.

The early 20th century Scottish astrologer Maurice Wemyss did suggest that Cancer should be the sign of rulership for Pluto. On that basis Capricorn would be Pluto's sign of detriment. However, Wemyss had little evidence to support this claim. World War I broke out just following the Pluto Ingress into Cancer. Hitler came to power with Pluto at 22 Cancer. World War II broke out not long after the Pluto Ingress into Leo.

If you want to pursue the case for making Pluto connected to such phenomena that is your choice. However, I suggest you listen less to what others tell you it means and do your own research. Simply do the work and check out the evidence of what happened during previous Ingresses of Pluto in Capricorn. Pluto was last in Capricorn during the period covering the American Revolution in 1776. However, it was very near the end of the sign. A lot of Americans would not see this as a time of global disaster. Pluto had moved into Aquarius by the time of the French Revolution and in many ways that introduced a far more bloody period with the subsequent Terror. I dont know much about Brazilian history but what was happening in your country during this period? I seem to recall the Portugese Court moved to Brazil during the Napoleonic wars? That was certainly a big social upheaval for Brazil. However, it was when Pluto was in Pisces!
I am not convinced any of this tells us very much on its own. I would rather see what Pluto was doing in terms of aspects and contacts to angles of Ingress or political charts.

I think its problematic when we come from a pre-conceived view of what this planet means in a particular sign and then seek evidence to hang on our theory. In my opinion its far more instructive and practical to check out the actual history of Pluto in the signs before we start theorising. To do this objectively we need to consider not just key events in Europe or America but across the globe.

Mark
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SunPluto



Joined: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 68
Location: Australia

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to see a mass change because I'm sick of hearing pathetic Australians whinging about petrol prices !

I want fuel to rise and maybe that way I'll see less 4wd's around the place. I'd like to see Australians doing it tough for a change so they stop their whinging about everything from the government, to petrol prices, interest rates and refugees.

So if pluto can do that I say its karma and some people down under need to experience a harder life.
_________________
Remember that everything we have somebody before us shed blood,sweat and tears so we could have a better life !
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granny_skot



Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 1639
Location: California, USA

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

in 1517 Pluto began its pass through Capricorn and we had a HUGE change in management from religious to mundane in Europe, Merchants began trading with China, the ottoman empire captured Cairo, etc. int he parts of the world I know a little bit aobut there was upheaval, but also a great deal of advance. though I think it totally appropriate that the era is called the reformation. Smile

in 1762/63 when pluto began his Capricorn transit, the French and Indian war ends with a peace treaty, ceding Canada to Britain, The Sikh genocide by ahmed shah sbdulah in the Punjab, the sugar Act (a tax on the american colonies) was passed, Prompting SAm Adams (name sound familiar?) and James Otis tp protest. I've always thought this was the begining of the end of Brittish Rule in America. in 66 you have the whole Jocobite issue, etc. Brittain suffered a lot of the same issues that Catholicism suffered in the last pluto pass of 1517 through Capricorn.

I would say that it is a Change in Management, rulership, more than in agriculture, or weather. Should be interesting, I'm expecting great things out of Europe in the next 20 years.

Granny
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Slayer of Cliffracers



Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 17

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What happened when Pluto went into Capricorn. Well Kosovo happened.

I think we'll be seeing the concrete realisation of a lot of dreams, that were dreamt up in Saggitarius. Expects lots of political changes, revolutions and independances.
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