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Mass disaster
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Coffee



Joined: 27 May 2007
Posts: 130

Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Mass disaster Reply with quote

kannan wrote:
How do we explain, astrologically, mass death due to cyclone, earth quake etc. Does it mean in every horoscope of the dead the time of death is the same ? Kannan


Oh, this is one of those "does astrology still exist if we are born on a different planet" questions Razz I like these.

I say no. I reckon the event will be the focus, rather than the person. Of course, that may bring up difficulty when asking "If it works for 10 people in a random bomb attack, why not for 100 in a bomb attack?"

Tricky question to answer but is worth thought and research.

My answer is NO, but I expect the natal chart of the victims family/friends will each show something that indicates the loss on their part. That is where to look.
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kannan



Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Posts: 97

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We are awiting to hear from Isaac on the methods used by him to predict death in his 300 sample charts . Will be helpful to the readers

Kannan
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PFN



Joined: 28 Dec 2008
Posts: 393
Location: Ouro Preto, Brasil

Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a interesting discussion, and I'm droping by just to share my opinion on the matter.

Recently I wrote an article (to myself only, actually) to answer this question in a ordely manner. Since I wrote it in my mother language, I can not share it in it's entirety right now (little time to translate) but I'll try to synthesize my opinion in a few lines:

1 - Astrology is not exactly a divine system, it is a human construct based on our perception of the divine. Therefore, it is not perfect, just like anything material is not perfect (now, you may or may not consider the divine perfect, but in my opinion even the worst definition of the divine would have to accept that it is not likely to be fully comprehended anyway, since our perception can not be complete, when we are bound to a world that we understand and perceive as imperfect from the very start, and since nowadays the divine is generally accepted as not physicall...).
2 - That being said, I believe that every victim of a mass tragedy was fated to die at that precise moment. Now, it would be preposterous to believe that we could determine death in every case for several reasons, as follows:

a - For astrologers, the same planet has diverse symbolic meanings, and often, it is the context that we acquire through interaction regarding the life of the subject that allows us to make a prediction. Thechnique alone is not enough, otherwise, how would you make a difference from twins with almost exactly equal charts, or even astrological twins with very dissimilar fates? To determine this difference by context, rather than by, say, a 3 of difference in the ascendants, would be much more profitable. Even if you magnify these differences through any one technique, a good talk or research is generally the way to go.

b - Astrology is very limited, since it is a limited and very general imitation of the heavenly motions, added with subjective thinking. It is in fact so limited, that through symbolic elements, we can say several things, but it is barely feasible to say some others, making it harder the more precision demanded.

c - It would be absurd that all the possibible astrological scenarios that leads to death have been compiled in the literature.

d - It would be even more absurd that every possible scenario that leads to death in the literature can be accessed at once, by men or machine, and therefore, comprehended as such, before or after an event.

e - astrology becomes twice imperfect, once in it's conception as stated, twice when used, since it depends on interpretation, not on exact correlation.

That all, to say that I do not dismiss the chart hierarchy explanation, but I do find it incomplete. The mundane chart is simply the best option for such types of prediction, because it is much less likely for you to miss the mark with a single one chart than to analyse 30.000 charts, or even a small sample of those (which is seldom, if ever, a productive course, even in a hyphotesis to try and prove something).
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Last edited by PFN on Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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waybread



Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 985
Location: Canada

Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I realize this is an old discussion, but since PFN just revived it, maybe the topic can be discussed again.

I think we have to face the possibility that astrology may not be good at predicting or post-dicting death, at least not on a mass scale.

I realize death prediction was an important topic for traditional astrologers in the past, yet some of them (like Morin) were wrong in highly publicized cases. Perhaps corporeal death is merely a birth into a new dimension, and we wouldn't imagine predicting the timing of births on a mass scale.

Any technique for predicting or analysing a natural disaster would have to be extremely place-specific. The reason is that planetary positions will be similar in different places at the moment an earthquake strikes, yet most places will not be directly affected. For example, the chart of transits for the 2010 Haiti earthquake probably would not look so different from the chart of Miami, Florida for the same time, yet Florida did not get hit.

As Mike Coop noted, above, earthquakes ocur on the earth's surface ongoingly. Most of them are relatively harmless because they happen in lightly populated areas. Mass casualties from a natural disaster require a large population concentration, architectural and transportation insufficiencies, a government incapable of acting quickly, and problems with access by first responders. These social factors cannot be read off a horoscope for the moment of a disaster.

As far as theological/theodicy arguments go, the Bible suggests that human rationales are not God's rationales, and we cannot always comprehend His purposes. The Bible itself undergoes a kind of ethical evolution, in which the earlier OT blaming of tragedy on human sin gives way to a more patient belief in God's inscrutability, as per the Book of Job. Ironically, the idea that "the sins of the fathers shall be visited upon the children" seems materially correct in the case of disasters where poor government preparedness, vastly unequal income structures, and prior environmental mismanagement intersect with a natural event to produce a large-scale human tragedy.
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