economical problems

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Question: Will my economical situation better?
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Background: the querent is full of debts for her house and the business activity of her husband for whom she signed lots of contracts. His activity is at risk and their private as well as business collapse seem to be very unavoidable.


Question time 8/10/2010, 17.29 MET Perugia, Italy

Placidus Houses, AC 15?02? Piscis

The significators:
The querent is represented by retrograde Jupiter in the first in Piscis, angular but peregrine, describing her as an magnanimous, religious and indulgent person (Lilly, p.62), but insecure (Jupiter peregrine) and incline to change point of view, in order to repass some lesson (Jupiter retrograde).
The co-significator of the querent is the Moon is in Libra in the 8th, describing her emotionally close to her debts (underlying also the reliability of the question). The Moon is in the house and triplicity of Mercury who receives her. This shows how much the querent is actually conditioned by her husband (Mercury ruler of the 7th).

The ruler of the 2nd house of substance is Venus. The house cusp is in the very first degree of Taurus, describing her financial situation as recently bettered (from malefic Mars to benefic Venus) She is peregrine in her detritment and in the 8th house. This describes her financial situation to be very difficult and apparently without exit-possibility. All her financial resources belong to the bank (8th house). She is plenty of debts. Venus is received by 8th ruler Mars, which gives some relief or margin of bargaining with the bank. And Venus becomes retrograde just 2? before the exact conjunction with Mars. The conjunction would have meant entire lost, but the conjunction is not to be perfected anymore. This seems to point to some possibility to avoid in the last moment the total financial disaster.

How does it came to this situation?
The Moon?s last aspect was a trine to the Neptun/Chiron conjunction in the 12th house. She wanted to help out her infirm husband (ruler of the 12th Saturn, co-significator of the husband) without considerating consequences for herself and her children. She speaks about that as some kind on ?love-sacrifice? (Neptun/Chiron) and she would do so again (trine). It is interesting to note that the querent is actually suffering from a temporary sordity, the reason for that is actually unknown (Neptun in the 12th house).
Both planets are ruled by Saturn in the 7th of the husband. Both are retrograde. This lesson is to be redone.
The 1st aspect with an inner planet was a conjunction with the Sun (combustion). This describes her feeling of burn out and her actual physical disease (the Sun is the ruler of the 6th of diseases).

What will happen?
The Moon?s next aspect is (leaving the sign but already in aspect) is a sextile to Pluto in the 10th, which will bring her a deep change in her consideration of her objectives in her life, on social and professional level. This change should be pretty well accepted (trine).
Outer planets a part, The Moon?s next meeting is with Venus. She translates the neptunian and plutonian energy first to Venus and then to Mars, her following appointment Since those aren?t hostile aspects, this should strength Venus. Translating wecan assume that after a period of confusion (trine to Neptun) she will learn to separate from something (Pluto) in order to make up her financial disorder.
Pluto is opposite her 4th house of estates. She is very concerned about the possibility to be obliged selling it. The lord of the 4th is Mercury, the same as for the husband). Interestingly it was HE who wanted to buy this house most). Mercury is peregrine and going into combustion. He is ruled by Venus, so the house is to be sold to resolve the economical problems. She won?t be able to keep the house.
Mercury is also the ruler of the turned 10th house of the husband, his business. After a conjunction with malefic Saturn (ruler of the turned 6th of his health), his activity is going to combustion (in about 6 weeks, distance from the sun less then 7 ?).(Sun and Mercury angular in a cardinal sign, but Mercury slow in motion).

The outcome
Jupiter (querent) and Venus (Money) won?t cast any aspect directly being both retrograde and Venus the speedier one, but the Moon translates between them. This is in fact to be considered as a trine, describing her to regain some economical strength. Jupiter angular in 1st, the North-node in the 10th, Fortuna in the 1st give reason to hope that the situation will change positively for the querent. The aspect situation between Mars and Venus confirm. The situation will better but with losses (Pluto in 10th. Mercury lord of 4th combust, Venus retrograde in the 8th).


The querent told me the very next day after, that they decided to sell the house in order to pay debts and to buy something more convenient to love in. this explains the recent change of the cusp in Taurus.

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The querent is represented by retrograde Jupiter in the first in Piscis, angular but peregrine, describing her as an magnanimous, religious and indulgent person (Lilly, p.62), but insecure (Jupiter peregrine) and incline to change point of view, in order to repass some lesson (Jupiter retrograde).
Jupiter is peregrine in Pisces? Most would say it has domicile rulership. Do you only give Jupiter domicile at night?

Venus certainly describes the financial situation. Thanks for sharing the chart!
And Venus becomes retrograde just 2? before the exact conjunction with Mars. The conjunction would have meant entire lost, but the conjunction is not to be perfected anymore. This seems to point to some possibility to avoid in the last moment the total financial disaster.
The aspect perfected, but it was before this chart was created. Is that what you mean?

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Jupiter is peregrine in Pisces? Most would say it has domicile rulership. Do you only give Jupiter domicile at night?
Yes, I do, accordingly to traditional astrology.

[quote]And Venus becomes retrograde just 2? before the exact conjunction with Mars. The conjunction would have meant entire lost, but the conjunction is not to be perfected anymore. This seems to point to some possibility to avoid in the last moment the total financial disaster.
[/quote
]
The aspect perfected, but it was before this chart was created. Is that what you mean?
Yes. In the moment of question, Venus is retrograde. So the worst has already happend. I see the escape from conjunction as a relief and a possibility of reorderning thinks.

But what do you think about Mercury's combustion? i'm not really sure about the husband. i almost hope I'm bad! the querent is a desperate friend!

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Hi Tania

This is interesting chart. Let me take a whack at it.

Venus is in middle of a sign in the house of mutual money / losses. It makes sense. There are a few indications that there will be no changes.
1. Venus is in mid sign and retro
2. Moon is void and not even within orb of Venus
3. Both planets are via combusta.
4. Jupiter retro even in its own rulership is not doing anything possitve because Jupiter is still conjuncting URanus and will turn direct soon. Mars will trine Jupiter, so i am thinking if anything hubby's money might improve
Mutuable angles makes me think it is temproary but will not get resolved as soon as she hopes for. Also it is interesting that mercury is conjuncting sun which rules hubby's 12th house - self undoing. I dont think this will get resolved soon very unfortunately.

just 2 cents
CD

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Hello tania

I really enjoyed reading your thorough and methodical analysis of the horary chart you cast, though obviously it's a distressing situation for the querent.

For me a lot rests on the Venus interpretation. The horary was cast late in the afternoon, almost in the evening, and it was much earlier that morning when Venus stationed, in a strict technical sense. You and others might disagree with me on this, I don't know, but I don't really see Venus as retrograde in this horary. I see Venus as stationary retrograde, and I would place that interpretation on it.
And Venus becomes retrograde just 2? before the exact conjunction with Mars. The conjunction would have meant entire lost, but the conjunction is not to be perfected anymore. This seems to point to some possibility to avoid in the last moment the total financial disaster.
I go along with the idea that this Venus turning retrograde can be useful and a time of rest and recuperation (financially, in this case), and shouldn't scare the querent into paralysis. But I also go along with the idea that the stationary retrograde is a most debilitating of positions, and that it precedes a period of debilitation during which the finances need to be re-jigged and sorted out.

I'm mindful of the idea that this chart could show the couple as a unit in the 1st house, and their joint finances as the 2nd, and their joint debts as the 8th. Equally, it could show the couple as two individuals, 1st and 7th, with their finances as 2nd and 8th respectively. I wonder if the Venus Mars shows the previous contacts of the querent's and her husband's financial agreements, and the Venus station as the querent wanting to back away from a further financial agreement, instead pulling away. Though obviously it could be read exactly as you have read it: the querent pulling away from the bank/the debt.

The Moon's position holds some trickiness though. Thankfully it's emerging from the Sun's burning rays and moving swiftly so there are strengths and chinks of light for the querent to draw on, but it's accidentally debilitated and is nearing the end of its sign, about to become fallen in Scorpio. The Moon is making no aspects to the traditional planets so maybe the querent will have to 'hang on in there' and bide her time until the tide turns, as well as prepare for some choppy waters just up ahead. Maybe it's pointing to the need to manage her understandable anxieties and maintain her emotional equilibrium in the near future? When our finances are in the doldrums we don't need those Scorpio emotions and 8th house anxieties to drown us, we need a clear head, lots of support, and something to buoy us up.

Given the background you've provided, it's so interesting that Mercury is linking the 7th and the 4th (turned 10th). Mercury's tight conjoining with Saturn, and heading into combustion says it all really, doesn't it? Reality bites, and the house goes up for sale. Obviously after combustion Mercury gets a chance to begin again from touching the bosom of the Sun/King. I hope the querent's home and her partner's business situation do receive the same chance.

Regards

H.

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Hello Handn, thank you for your useful comments!
For me a lot rests on the Venus interpretation. The horary was cast late in the afternoon, almost in the evening, and it was much earlier that morning when Venus stationed, in a strict technical sense. You and others might disagree with me on this, I don't know, but I don't really see Venus as retrograde in this horary. I see Venus as stationary retrograde, and I would place that interpretation on it.
Honestly i did not notice she was stationary...
I go along with the idea that this Venus turning retrograde can be useful and a time of rest and recuperation (financially, in this case), and shouldn't scare the querent into paralysis. But I also go along with the idea that the stationary retrograde is a most debilitating of positions, and that it precedes a period of debilitation during which the finances need to be re-jigged and sorted out.
yes, that's what I meant. She is not to come out of the situation as a winner. She will loose. But she won't loose everything. She is able to bargain her debts. that's what she is trying since a long time actually. She wants to refinace herself taking a big financement which icludes all the the others she has yet open. Doing so, she would spent much less. But no bank is giving her a chance to do so. What I wanted to point out, is that a chance will be given, but that she will have to lern to "let go"" parts of her behavings as well. (Venus IS in the 8th, debilitated and so on and so is the Moon).

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I'm mindful of the idea that this chart could show the couple as a unit in the 1st house, and their joint finances as the 2nd, and their joint debts as the 8th. Equally, it could show the couple as two individuals, 1st and 7th, with their finances as 2nd and 8th respectively. I wonder if the Venus Mars shows the previous contacts of the querent's and her husband's financial agreements, and the Venus station as the querent wanting to back away from a further financial agreement, instead pulling away. Though obviously it could be read exactly as you have read it: the querent pulling away from the bank/the debt.
She has two possibilities in her mind: paying the debts of the enterprise of her husband and buying another (cheaper) house with a new financing for themselfs or buying a house cash and let the husband take a financement for his enterprise. I Told her to to the latter.
The Moon's position holds some trickiness though. Thankfully it's emerging from the Sun's burning rays and moving swiftly so there are strengths and chinks of light for the querent to draw on, but it's accidentally debilitated and is nearing the end of its sign, about to become fallen in Scorpio. The Moon is making no aspects to the traditional planets so maybe the querent will have to 'hang on in there' and bide her time until the tide turns, as well as prepare for some choppy waters just up ahead. Maybe it's pointing to the need to manage her understandable anxieties and maintain her emotional equilibrium in the near future? When our finances are in the doldrums we don't need those Scorpio emotions and 8th house anxieties to drown us, we need a clear head, lots of support, and something to buoy us up.
I think you are very right with that. She IS suffering from anxiety (yesterday in hospital for that). But i used the outer planets (yet in orb) because they are angular. I think this want us to say something.
Given the background you've provided, it's so interesting that Mercury is linking the 7th and the 4th (turned 10th). Mercury's tight conjoining with Saturn, and heading into combustion says it all really, doesn't it? Reality bites, and the house goes up for sale. Obviously after combustion Mercury gets a chance to begin again from touching the bosom of the Sun/King. I hope the querent's home and her partner's business situation do receive the same chance.
Yes i hope so as welll. but here are some news: the querent has been in the hospital today for her ear-problems. She did not hear anything since about 1 week. this caused her heart problems (for the medecine-mix). While waiting, she met an old friend telling her about the problem she has. This woman immediatly asked her boyfriend if he could help the querent. He is a finacial adviser. He promised to help her. ! 5 second later her ears had their function again...

She already advised her house on the internet. today, coming back to her home, she accidentally broke the key, turning it in the door. Strange?
I don't thik that casuality exists!

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Quote:
Jupiter is peregrine in Pisces? Most would say it has domicile rulership. Do you only give Jupiter domicile at night?

Yes, I do, accordingly to traditional astrology.
This is new to me. I've never noticed any traditional authority suggesting that the essential dignity of sign rulership is denied according to whether the chart is diurnal or nocturnal - triplicity rulership yes, because we are expressly told that triplicity rulerships alternate by day and night (and so have different planetary rulers by day or night) but not the sign rulerships. I'm curious where you've got this from Tania - unfortunately I'll be leaving to catch a flight today so I might have to wait a week or two before I can get back to this thread.

Best wishes
Deb

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Hi Deb, I'm happy to meet you on this thraet!

Jupiter is peregrine in Pisces? Most would say it has domicile rulership. Do you only give Jupiter domicile at night?


Yes, I do, accordingly to traditional astrology. [/quote]
This is new to me. I've never noticed any traditional authority suggesting that the essential dignity of sign rulership is denied according to whether the chart is diurnal or nocturnal - triplicity rulership yes, because we are expressly told that triplicity rulerships alternate by day and night (and so have different planetary rulers by day or night) but not the sign rulerships. I'm curious where you've got this from Tania
oh oh, when you write like this, I already I have written something really wrong.. let's see. I referred to p. 104 of CA "a table of essential Dignities". Piscis is indicated as the night house of Jupiter. This is a day chart, my conclusion was that he is not the ruler by day.

Have a great time in the U.S!

Tania

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Tania wrote:
Piscis is indicated as the night house of Jupiter
Yes, Pisces are the night house of Jupiter, but that doesn't mean he hasn't got any dignity there by day - "the night house of Jupiter" refers to his feminine, nocturnal domicile, because Pisces are one of the feminine, nocturnal signs, posited in the lunar half of the zodiac(from Aquarius to Cancer). Feminine, nocturnal signs symbolize a more passive, receptive kind of environment for a planet to be in. Since Jupiter is a diurnal planet, he also prefers/ "delights" in his diurnal domicile, Sagittarius, which is more in accordance with his own expressive, masculine, active traits.

Every planet, except for the Moon and the Sun, has its own diurnal and nocturnal house/domicile...

After all, Jupiter is also one of the rulers of fire triplicity so he gains additional essential fortitude when placed in his diurnal domicile.

Greetings,
Goran

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tania wrote:Yes i hope so as welll. but here are some news: the querent has been in the hospital today for her ear-problems. She did not hear anything since about 1 week. this caused her heart problems (for the medecine-mix). While waiting, she met an old friend telling her about the problem she has. This woman immediatly asked her boyfriend if he could help the querent. He is a finacial adviser. He promised to help her. ! 5 second later her ears had their function again...

She already advised her house on the internet. today, coming back to her home, she accidentally broke the key, turning it in the door. Strange?
I don't thik that casuality exists!
Thanks for the extra information. Nice to have the ear problem clear up with that hospital serendipitous event!