? steps to reading lunar return ?

1
i assume this topic would be put here.

What steps do you use for approaching and reading a lunar return?

I been approaching the lunar return as reading it by itself and then combining it with birth chart.

The lunar return chart by itself seems to make a bit more sense when I look at it then only looking at it combined with birth chart.

While I am not someone who has heavily studied natal astrology or has much experience in it. I'm curious how everyone else their self approaches it.

I've probably read most of the articles i could come across on google...so I am more curious about you as an individual and your methods.

Like the lunar return for the month my return is coming to a close has lunar return mars in lunar return 7th . I've had major discord.
Let the cookie crumble how it will crumble.

2
hi eleanor,

i don't work with them often enough to comment... i would probably consider them inside a wider context thru the use of the annual solar return chart, profections and the natal chart itself ... good luck figuring it out..

3
I think it depends upon how you interpret the moon. Obviously the moon symbolizes many things. In modern astrology the moon indicates your emotional nature. So a lunar return would be a guide to how you are going to feel during the month ahead. Then I would interpret the stand-alone lunar return chart plus the natal plus LR chart as you would normally. Moon square Mars might indicate a period of angry feelings. Moon trine Jupiter should indicate a lunar month when all feels right with the world.

If you have other lunar concerns like your mother or your home, consider whether the LR chart sheds light on their situations.

Another suggestion would be to consider the lunation cycle. What was the moon's phase at your birth? In the old farming folklore about the moon's cycle, the waxing moon is a good time for things that expand and increase. The waning moon is a time for completion and diminution. Plant or work on new projects with the waxing moon, harvest or do chores that end something during the waning moon. You can plan your month accordingly. I can't say swear that this would make much difference but you might enjoy the feeling of synchronizing with the moon's phases.

4
Here are the main rules for the calculating and interpretation the lunar return charts based on the very extensive research of Alexander Marr and my vast testing of them:
1. Lunar return must be calculated for the place of residence and not for the place of birth.
2. Only precessional lunar return is effective.
3. For each lunar return, one must calculate the complementary converse lunar return
4. If the event is more than 14 days from the lunar return, a demi lunar return (2nd harmonic) must be calculated
5. The most important indications in lunar returns are the planets near the angles with a small orb.
6. The great advantage of these returns is that one doesn’t need the exact birth time, as long as it is +/- 10 min from the exact birth time.
Here are some examples for Queen Elizabeth II, born on 2.40 BST. I rectified her chart to 2.38.12 BST Asc 20Cap49’
1. 19 November 1947 marriage
In the lunar return for 5 Nov 1947 Venus is exactly on Desc with Jupiter, Node on Asc.
In the converse lunar return, Mercury and Node on IC
In the converse demi lunar return, casting for 20 September 1904, Venus on MC, Jupiter on IC and Pluto on Desc
2. 14 November 1948 birth of son Charles
In the converse lunar return, Venus on MC, Jupiter on IC
In the demi lunar return, Venus on MC
In the converse demi lunar return Jupiter on Asc, Venus on Desc, Uranus on MC and Pluto on IC.
3. 6 February 1952 death of father
In the lunar return Neptune on Asc with Saturn and Mars
In the converse demi lunar return Neptune on Asc, Saturn on Desc
4. 9 July 1982 Michael Fagan incident
In the converse lunar return Mars on IC and Pluto on Desc- typical for violence. But Venus is also on IC and Jupiter on Desc- a rescue
In the demi lunar return for 8 July 1982 Mars, Saturn and Pluto on MC, Venus on Desc

For further explanations I recommend to read
1. Juan Estadella book Predictive Astrology Chapter 8, available free :

https://juanestadella.com/eng_books.html
2. Alexander Marr’s books Prediction chapters 7, 8 and 9
And Political Astrology pages 1-13
Free downloaded : https://ajak41.wixsite.com/polaris

6
Isaac Starkman wrote: Here are some examples for Queen Elizabeth II, born on 2.40 BST. I rectified her chart to 2.38.12 BST Asc 20Cap49’
1. 19 November 1947 marriage
In the lunar return for 5 Nov 1947 Venus is exactly on Desc with Jupiter, Node on Asc.
isaac,

she was married on 20th november 11:30 am...

venus is not exactly on the descendant either... i know you are capable of good work, but you are fudging the details here... cheers james

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedding_o ... ountbatten

lunar return just prior to her marriage..

Image


biwheel with transits on the outside are very informative..

Image


might be better captured via sidereal..

7
James: you are right that the wedding was on 20 November, but this doesn’t change the lunar return for 5 November.
In a lunar return, a conjunction of a planet with any angle WITH ORB OF LESS THAN 1 DEGREE should be called: exactly. This is not a directional technique that requires an accuracy of minutes of arc:
Desc here 28Sco15’
Venus 28Sco51’
So the orb is 36’
No fudging here

8
hi isaac,

solar fire 9 software is giving me ascendant 16 taurus 37 off the 240am birth time.. even if i change it to the rectified time you offer - 2:38:12 am i get 15 taurus 58... so, something is off with one of our astro programs here.. in both of the lunar returns, mercury is closer to the descendant then venus..

i have bst - 1 hour, which adb is saying gdt - same thing...

https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/El ... of_England

cheers james

9
Hi James,
You are using the tropical lunar return, but see rule 2 in my post from 24 January: one must take into consideration the precession. My experience with thousands of events shows that in most cases (90-95%) only the precessional lunar returns are effective.

10
Isaac Starkman wrote:
James, You are using the tropical lunar return, but see rule 2 in my post from 24 January: one must take into consideration the precession. My experience with thousands of events shows that in most cases (90-95%) only the precessional lunar returns are effective.
Isaac, there is still a lot of confusion even among long time astrologers about the word "precession" which is used for both tropical and sidereal zodiacs in different contexts. It becomes doubly confusing when tropical astrologers correct for precession in return charts by adding amounts of precession which is apparently what you are doing?

Confusion is removed if the terms tropical and sidereal are used instead. So are you essentially using sidereal year calculations in the tropical zoidac, which is what Marc Penfield does in Solar Returns in Your Face? (I haven't read the books you linked to in your post.)

Yes, I just calculated Elizabeth's marriage lunar return with the standard given time of her birth (2:40 am), and sidereally (Krishnamurti zodiac) 5 Sco 47 is on the descendant with Venus at 5 Sco 50. Tight Venus orb as you pointed out.
Last edited by Therese Hamilton on Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise/LostZodiac.htm

11
thanks isaac!

don't you think using precession is a polite way of saying the sidereal system works 90-95% of the time, but the tropical system doesn't? that is what it looks like to me... i think therese is saying the same thing..

this is further emphasized when you consider the planets involved and what houses they rule in the sidereal verses tropical system... i could show this if you'd like... it just seems to me accounting for precession is like wanting to use the sidereal system while continuing on work with the tropical zodiac.. it doesn't make a lot of sense to me! what are you thoughts isaac? thanks
james

12
Hi all,

After much observation, this is the way I see it (as a tropical astrologer): a regular solar return and a precession-corrected solar return for a given year complement each other. I think the "law" behind this is that, just like time, revolutions are both "absolute" (i.e., a complete 360 against the background of fixed stars) and "relative" to a moving starting point related to the planet in question, (which is, of course, tropical 0 Aries for the sun) and both perspectives add details of a complete image. The easiest way to prove this is to study solar returns for deaths: in the cases where death is vaguely hinted in the tropical solar return, it will be blatantly evident in the precession-corrected return (as Isaac says, angles seem to be more important in them and you will find angular Plutos and Mars very often), and the opposite is also true: sometimes death will be more evident in the tropical return.

I agree with Isaac that lunar returns should always be precession-corrected, and I add that this law would explain why (at least in my experience) tropical lunar returns are so vague and seemingly unrelated to actual events: because for a revolution of the moon, it makes no sense to take tropical 0 Aries as a reference point! You have to measure the relative revolutions of the moon with its distance to the north node. In Solar Fire you can do this with the electional search tool, looking for the exact moment in which the transiting Moon is in the same natal angle from the transiting node as they were in the radix. Alternatively, you can copy the radix, make it draconic, cast a lunar return then convert the return back to Tropical and the result will be the same. Observe how the moon in these returns, which travels backwards at the same rate as the nodes, interacts with the radix during important events.

I have been observing this phenomenon alone for some time and I'm curious to see if anyone finds the same.

Best wishes,