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Thank you Isaac for sharing the work of Marr and your knowledge on Lunar returns.
Besides Lunar Returns what is your take on Tertiary Lunar Progression (24= 1 month of life) and Minor Lunar Progression ( 24h= 1 year of life)?

And do you consider the Lunar mansion when looking at Lunar returns? Whether it be the Moon or an Angular planet highlighted?

Any comment on Valens who says that from the NM the following planets rules the period:
Mercury until the 4th day (4 days)
Mercury until the 8th day (4 days)
Venus until the 12th day (4 days)
Sun until the 14th day (2 days)
Mars until the 21th day (7 days)
Jupiter until the 25th day (4 days)
Saturn until the 30th day (5 days)

Does this apply to the Lunar return as well?

Thank you!
Ouranos
Blessings!

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Regarding tropical vs sidereal lunar returns and place of birth vs place of residence: for the past 20 years I’ve only used tropical and only place of residence (I’ve lived in different countries on different continents, mostly far away from my place of birth)— always with fairly satisfying results. After reading this thread, I did some experiments, and my conclusion is (to my own big surprise!) that it’s worth looking both at sidereal and tropical, and both at place of residence and place of birth.

Here two of my experiments, one with a past lunar return in my own life, and one with Wolfgang Pauli’s solar and lunar returns the year he won the Nobel Prize :

1. Last August I received a substantial sum of money. In my tropical LR, for my place of residence, Part of Fortune was on the cusp of my LR 2d house. It fell at a seemingly random degree in my tropical natal 7th house, unaspected, but exactly conjunct an asteroid that carried the first name of the person who gave me the money.
In the sidereal LR, place of residence, POF was also conjunct cusp of the 2d house. It fell exactly conjunct my tropical natal Jupiter & cusp of tropical 8th, and widely conjunct my sidereal natal Venus in the middle of my sidereal natal 8th. The sidereal LR gave more info about it being a gift, as it made the link with my 8th house — but the relevant asteroid name of the donor didn’t show up at a significant spot in the sidereal.
So both sidereal and tropical made sense, and gave additional information, and apparently one can even put the sidereal LR on top of the natal tropical.

The same LR for my place of birth: nothing going on in the tropical LR 2d house, but LR Venus is right at the cusp of the LR 8th house, trine Uranus, trine the asteroid that has my name, and trine asteroid Abundantia. On top of this, the LR POF is exactly conjunct the asteroid with the last name of the donor in my natal chart!
In the birth place sidereal LR, nothing special going on neither in the 2d house nor in the 8th (just LR Jupiter conjunct LR Asc, trine LR Moon, which anyway indicates a good month).

2. Wolfgang Pauli received the Nobel prize in 1945. I looked up his lunar and solar returns, both sidereal and tropical, for Vienna (where he was born), for Princeton (where he was living) and for Stockholm. I zoomed in mostly on tight conjunctions with angles, Sun and Moon and on Part of Fortune — both for the returns alone, and for the returns laid on top of the natal chart. I added asteroid Nobel.

Here my results:

For Princeton (where he was on the moment of the SR and LR)
Sidereal SR : SR asteroid Nobel conjunct SR Ascendant!

Sidereal LR: LR POF conjunct natal SUn
Tropical SR: SR Nobel conjunct SR IC
Tropical LR: LR Part of Fortune conjunct Natal MC!

For Vienna (place of birth)
Sidereal SR: SR POF conjunct natal Asc!
SR Nobel at the cusp of 9th, exactly square SR Asc/Desc
Sidereal LR: LR Moon conjunct LR POF conjunct LR MC! LR Nobel conjunct LR Descendant, LR ASc widely conjunct natal POF
Tropical SR: SR MC conjunct natal SUn
Tropical LR: LR Desc conjunct natal Nobel

For Stockholm (where he picked up the prize, towards the end of his LR)
Sidereal SR: SR Jupiter conjunct natal Asc, SR MC conjunct natal NN, SR Nobel square SR POF
Sidereal LR: LR Saturn conjunct Mars conjunct LR Asc in Cancer — this really doesn’t fit! — as he wasn’t in Stockholm on the moment of the return, and the ceremony took place 2 days before his next LR, I also checked the next one: there he has POF conjunct Saturn, so that doesn’t make sense either
Tropical SR: SR MC conjunct natal SUn, SR POF conjunct Natal Pallas Athina
Tropical Nov LR: LR Asc conjunct natal POF — for the 12 Dec LR: LR POF conjunct LR MC (the ceremony was the 10th)

(Transits (S&T): Pallas Athina, Mercury, Venus conjunct natal North Node, Vesta conjunct natal Nobel, Nobel conjunct natal Pallas Athina)


Except for the Sidereal lunar return for Stockholm, which is totally off, there’s something to be found everywhere. His sidereal Solar Returns both for Princeton and Vienna impress me most. Of the Lunar Returns, it’s the tropical one for Princeton and the sidereal one for Vienna that impress me most.

The sidereal lunar for STockholm being off doesn’t surprise me at all — my past experience has shown me that for the lunar returns, what counts is where you are/live on the moment of the return. I am surprised though that his Stockholm tropical LR makes sense.

For solar returns, in my experience it’s where you find yourself, regardless of where you are on the moment of the return — eg, if you’re in NY for your solar return, the NY solar return is valid as long as you are in NY, but if you move to another country, then the solar return for that place becomes valid, even if you weren’t there on the moment of the return. Pauli’s Stockholm Solar Returns seems to confirm this. But his birthplace returns definitely make sense too.

WOuld love to hear your thoughts.

Anyway, I just saw that my sidereal 2023 SR looks good (SR POF conjunct SR Asc conjunct Spica, natal Jupiter conjunct SR Descendant) whereas my tropical SR doesn’t look good, so then would be the time to figure out which one is more accurate!