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Known Outcome - Will I work for ABC
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Rookie



Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 160

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:18 pm    Post subject: Known Outcome - Will I work for ABC Reply with quote

So I have been meaning to post this and the outcome is known. I will check back in a week after everyone has a chance to weigh in!

Rookie

https://photos.app.goo.gl/1cZ37Atbzjpmx6Vr6
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 1170

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be very, very surprising if you got this job.

Negatives: querent Venus has term dignity but is in detriment in the 12th, prohibited from aspecting the 10th ruler via square by Jupiter the 8th/11th lord. Venus does not behold its own house which suggests lack of power over the situation. Moon in detriment and peregrine conjunct the south node and in conjunction with Mars in the 8th, translating that to the querent via square as well as Mercury retro in the 11th. Saturn lording the 10th shows the job is very difficult to attain. Saturn in the 9th suggests it is a senior position that requires a lot of experience and/or knowledge and the querent may not have what they are looking for since they have low essential dignity and have essential debility. It is likely very competitive too, as is usually the case with malefics lording a job. A dignified Saturn suggests it is a good job but comes with some negatives, such as stress and a lot of responsibility.

Positiives: Sun in the 10th (but even then it is in detriment). Venus beholds the MC. The 10th lord Saturn trines the ASC. It is an opportunity for advancement and is probably in a new technology (Aquarius).

What is the emphasis on the 11th house? Jupiter lords the 11th and comes between Venus and Saturn. Additionally, Mercury is retro there and aspects the Moon. It may relate to compensation for the job. The 8th house emphasis may also be pointing towards issues with compensation or money. Maybe they pulled the job due to budget cuts? The 8th in my experience also tends to relate to infectious organisms and may be emphasizing the issue with SARS-COV-2 and it is combining with the 11th house influences to suggest interference with money or compensation relating to the job. Mars is often the virus. It often lords the 7th too because it is like an open battle with it. It could be the job seems like a go and then is pulled or delayed until later with the emphasis of Mercury retro in the 11th. The 7th can also just be a competitor but this particular pattern is all too familiar to me with the virus in horary.

Anyway, I hope things work out either way for you.
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AmeliaS



Joined: 07 Apr 2020
Posts: 263

Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

-probably wrong judgment, deleted-

Last edited by AmeliaS on Sun Apr 19, 2020 1:41 am; edited 37 times in total
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AmeliaS



Joined: 07 Apr 2020
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Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

(repeated post, sorry)
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Rookie



Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 160

Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 12:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Known Outcome - Will I work for ABC Reply with quote

Rookie wrote:
So I have been meaning to post this and the outcome is known. I will check back in a week after everyone has a chance to weigh in!

Rookie

https://photos.app.goo.gl/1cZ37Atbzjpmx6Vr6


I feel like I should have at least given a little back ground information on this query without biasing the reading.

On the date of the query, I am employed with XYZ company and was just approached by a recruiter for ABC company. The position in query was the same for both companies, just ABC company would be at much higher management level within the organization. In other words same kind of job, just way more responsibility and pull.

So the reason I asked the query was that the ABC position would be the type of position I had wanted throughout my career and my hope is that I would get the position
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 1170

Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still say money is a huge issue here - either the salary or the budget of the organization. The 11th lord is in fall and Venus squares it before it can even reach Saturn, and again there is an 8th house emphasis. Mercury bad in the 11th and retro seems like a reversal there too, such as something promised about the compensation being taken back. Mercury conjunct Neptune in aspect with Jupiter, which is also the 2nd lord, could suggest they even lied about something regarding compensation. Mercury afflicted and with Neptune can indicate documents that lie or statements that involve lying.

The job itself seems pretty good in quality, as we have already discussed but overall the chart suggests it is a bad fit. The 12th is a house of self undoing so in questions like this I personally see it as a self undoing to pursue the matter - regret is likely to occur if it happens. Venus ill dignified can also show lack of interest in the job in the end but it can also show you are not qualified. I realize you say you already work in the same position but it could imply this position requires other qualities that you lack or that the nature of the work would just not be a good fit for whatever reason. Keep in mind that in leadership positions it isn't just the title that can change, the work environment might just be very different because the work itself is different somehow (not just on paper) or the people are, etc. It could be that you need more experience before you would do well in a position like this.
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AmeliaS



Joined: 07 Apr 2020
Posts: 263

Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

May be a case of perfection by translation of light.

L1 Venus is applying to a square with Jupiter as her next aspect. Jupiter's next aspect is conjunct L10 Saturn. Saturn, after trining ascendent, will meet Jupiter.

Some say that translation of light only happens when the translating planet is faster than both significators. But I just noted that William Lilly, in "A Lady, if marry the gentleman desired", demonstrated that a Jupiter between a Sun and a Saturn can perfect matters.

There is mutual reception, too, but even then Jupiter is in fall. I agree with Tanit that someone may be dishonest. This Jupiter could be the recruiter.

With a square, Bonatti would say it takes a lot of effort at the querent's end. The querent's condition as Tanit pointed out above becomes paramount. As Tanit said, a 12th house querent could warn of regrets, or at least some serious internal struggles.

Amelia
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Rookie



Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 160

Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since it is just us 3 looking at this chart, I have decided to post the outcome.

I got the job! The pay is exceptional. It's with a company that if I told you the name you would know it.

Some details. You talked about delays, pay issues, problems getting the job etc. All true. But I read the chart a bit differently. Let me tell you how I read the chart. I took L10 as my current employer, XYZ, L11 as my next employer, ABC. That gave me an applying square with Jupiter L11

Lets talk about L10, my current employer if you will. You talked about delays, pulling back on promised compensation. All true. A very difficult employer to work for, just furloughed me for a month meaning they took away my compensation while they work through this virus thing. You talked about L10 being a demanding environment and it is but not because it is a difficult job, it has no direction and management simply sucks.

So now lets talk about L11 and the Square. To me the square didn't represent the the position itself, it represents the challenges of obtaining the position. I stated the journey on Feb 12th. After 14 different interviews, a few very difficult ones, on March 20th, I was finally presented with an offer that needed to be approved by executives way up the chain, that represented EXACTLY 4.46 weeks from the date of the chart, the angle of the applying square.

After that, it took 2 weeks before the offer was approved and officially presented and the background check and drug screen started. With the virus shutting down alot of businesses, the background check took another two weeks and as of today, the drug test is still outstanding.

My start date has already been pushed out at least 1 week

Some other "Stuff" i got from the chart. L11 Jupiter in the 9th, it's own house showing the job is a good one. Venus in the 12th, also a Jupiter house shows I will be happy there.

Mercury is all over this chart and I don't what it means

Thanks for your reads. Feel free to shoot down my reading or add to it
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 1170

Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Giving the new job Jupiter in fall and an applying square between two essentially poor planets in cadent houses as a strong indicator of positive perfection is a bit sketchy and really could have gone either way but I guess at least horary warns you when something will be difficult. As mentioned Bonatti says a square can lead to perfection but with a lot of effort on the querent's end and with reception. It sounds like you did put in a lot of effort though. There is triplicity reception but that is still not very strong from cadent houses, other than two benefics being involved. Benefics representing significators can make things more positive and easier than they could have been. Perhaps the negative emphasis is all of the delay you talked about too.

I normally see no reason to turn a chart for a new job but if you decided that you wanted to compare jobs when forming the question that is something I would have also mentioned in your initial post. I know some people think a chart is universal but there is something about how an astrologer forms a question in horary that makes a difference in what the chart shows most of the time.

Quote:

Some say that translation of light only happens when the translating planet is faster than both significators. But I just noted that William Lilly, in "A Lady, if marry the gentleman desired", demonstrated that a Jupiter between a Sun and a Saturn can perfect matters.


I personally believe that would only be the case if Venus was separating from Jupiter and applying to Saturn and that would be a translation of Jupiter to Saturn by Venus. Jupiter cannot translate light of Venus, it collects its light because it is slower than Venus. Maybe Jupiter could be regarded as a mitigating force but then we are starting to break some rules on what prohibition means.

The horary certainly described the current job in some detail from the sounds of it.


What do you make of Venus in the 12th in detriment? Do you regard that just as your current state at the time of the question at your current job? I normally especially do not think Venus does well there. I do remember many years ago during the 2008 depression being a student intern and being Venus in the 12th when my current job was unknown regarding whether I would be able to stay or not. The 12th is a house of uncertainty. My employer was able to do some magic and it worked out in the end though and I even got a larger salary. Perhaps there is something to be said about benefics in the 12th being a protection against hidden and unknown forces (especially if the two benefics combine, I wonder). Just some random thoughts.

I hope it works out for you. Thanks for sharing.
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AmeliaS



Joined: 07 Apr 2020
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Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whoa. It sounds like a lot to go through, Rookie, and I can't imagine how happy you were when you got the job! 14 interviews? That's insane. Glad it worked out your way.

Thanks for sharing, both. I agree with Tanit. A placement in H12 usually really spooks me. It does sound like the benefics are doing their jobs right, tho. Congratulations.
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AmeliaS



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Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://tonylouis.wordpress.com/2012/09/30/william-lilly-a-lady-if-marry-the-gentleman-desired-ca-p-385/

Here's an article on the Lilly's chart I mentioned. Interestingly, the writer pointed out that Jupiter (slower than L1 Sun) was separating from Saturn (L7), not applying as Lilly calculated. But the way the event manifested did seem to support Lilly's judgment that Jupiter brought Sun & Saturn together. I could've missed something, so let me know if you have any thoughts.
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 1170

Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That Lilly chart is kind of a mess and has several Considerations and even Lilly didn't come to the right conclusions.

One thing I personally do when I ask a question about a new job and I want to compare it to my current job is to do the "stay or go" chart type. I compare my current situation as L1 as my happiness/lack of happiness to the new situation as L7, the money I have as L2 currently and L8 in the new situation and L10/L4, and possible salary as L11/L5 if applicable, etc. When looking at this chart, I can see how that might work too because the change has the querent in a stronger position (Mars exalted in the turned 2nd) and the new job is Sun applying within orb of Mars, applying out of sign and with a sextile suggesting requiring effort. Sun-Mars is more befitting of a position that is described too. Just my two cents. Trying to make the chart fit the outcome using L1 is just leaving me scratching my head more than anything else but that is just my opinion.
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Rookie



Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 160

Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So help me with Mercury in the chart. I don't understand her influence. She is in mutual Detriment with Jupiter. Could mercury represent this virus going on showing additional pain and struggles for my future employer?
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
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Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
So help me with Mercury in the chart. I don't understand her influence. She is in mutual Detriment with Jupiter. Could mercury represent this virus going on showing additional pain and struggles for my future employer?


Mercury is in the house of whatever you are giving the 11th house and separating from the 11th lord. I am still skeptical that the 11th would represent a new job. Jupiter itself can represent new opportunities but that doesn't mean the 11th is the house of the new job. Normally the 11th deals with salary, allies from work and other compensation from work (2nd house things of work). Again, Mercury lords contracts and written and spoken words. It also lords money itself. Mercury-Jupiter with Neptune ill dignified or afflicted often makes me think of promising more than can be delivered or lying or turning your back on a contract, salary, etc. You were giving that to the current employer, I thought?

Normally you wouldn't just take the next house over for a new job. Where did you get this method from? You might use a secondary body in the 10th such as Sun or use a triplicity lord of the 10th if you don't use my method of the "stay or go" chart type. I would just use the 10th unless you have a strong need to compare it to your current job in the future. In most cases someone already has a job when asking about a new job opportunity and we don't normally have a need to not use the 10th house. The 10th lords our career pursuits in general. If you were buying a new car or a new house would you move a house over to do so? You still have a car or a house. Same principle.

In this case Jupiter is a triplicity lord of Aquarius but it doesn't behold the 10th which is a bit sketchy assigning it as a lord of career. I sometimes see Jupiter pop up as another alternative than the one asked about but I have personally never seen it show as the job asked about when it doesn't lord the 10th. This method is not standard but if it works then it is worth sharing as an alternative idea.
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Ouranos



Joined: 28 Mar 2020
Posts: 560

Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello everyone!
I am new to this forum and hope to engage in fruitful conversations with all of you.
To Rookie: To me, this Mercury represents possible offers by the company to invest in stock options (Mercury ruling your 2nd and 5th H). Or travel expenses or furnitures provided by the company (like computers, desks, offices).
Given the position of this Mercury (Detriment, near conjunction to Neptune and applying to Jupiter in Fall), I would be very cautious about hopes or expectations in this regard.
Another point that struck my mind was that your question was "Will I work for ABC?" and in a reply you said 'I got hired'. The thing is that you can get hired by the company but not work for them as we have seen so far with the pandemic. Has your question been 'Will I be hired by ABC?' it could have been a different ball game.
Regards,
Ouranos
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Blessings!
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