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Robert Fludd - Of Theft and Thieves

 
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Ouranos



Joined: 28 Mar 2020
Posts: 569

Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 10:25 am    Post subject: Robert Fludd - Of Theft and Thieves Reply with quote



Robert Fludd, also known as Robertus de Fluctibus (17 January 1574 – 8 September 1637), was a prominent English Paracelsian physician with both scientific and occult interests. He is remembered as an astrologer, mathematician, cosmologist, Qabalist and Rosicrucian.
Fludd is best known for his compilations in occult philosophy. He had a celebrated exchange of views with Johannes Kepler concerning the scientific and hermetic approaches to knowledge. Doctor Robert Fludd is referred to as the father of Freemasonry in the Masonic Dictionary.Com. (Wikipedia)
Robert Fludd has concentrated his system in a work which bears the title of 'Utriusque Cosmi Tractatus'. This work is divided into 2 sections 'Le Traite du Macrocosme' and 'Le Traite du Microcosme'. The original text is in Latin but Robert Fludd lived during a time when scientific and philosophical research were published in this language.
He wore several hats during his life and if he was called 'the researcher' by some, he was known to have been one of the most brilliant spirit of his time.

**Note : This is a free translation from 'De Astrologia' from the French translation of Pierre Piobb published on June 25, 1907 in Paris** English translation have also been published.

In Book VI, Robert Fludd describes a theft
"... I received a visit from a rather distinguished young man who was doing his humanities at the College de la Madeleine. We dined that day in my room. But the following Sunday, I noticed that my belt and the cord to attach the sword to it, all worth ten louis de France, had disappeared. "
I then erected the theme for the time I had known about this loss.
I found Mercury, Ruler of House 7 and placed in House 10 quite fortunate. I concluded that the thief was a young man of easy speech and even eloquent; and Mercury being oriental like the other significators, I presumed that the stolen object had been transported towards the South. When I had obtained this information and had a satisfactory description of the thief, I suddenly began to think of my guest from the previous Thursday, who lived at the College de la Madeleine, located to the east of the site of the theft.
I sent my servant to this young man without delay, recommending that he be polite and calm. The young man said he was innocent and swore he had never touched the objects in question. Now, as I had recognized that the latter were being transported to the South, I dispatched my servant for the second time not only to this same student, but also to another, a teenager who was with him at the time of the theft had been committed. My servant used vehement language vis-à-vis the latter, even threatened him by asserting emphatically that he alone possessed the lost objects and hid them in a certain place near the church. This place was well known to me: the student often went there to hear music and meet certain women. I ordered my servant to make him understand that I was aware of these details, because the horoscope revealed that the lost objects were hidden towards the South: Mercury was indeed in a Term of Venus and I concluded that the thief had a passion for music and women.
When the unfortunate man heard this requisitory, he immediately stepped forward to cover his comrade, and, kicking the ground with his foot, he affirmed that he had been the only one to commit the theft. He added that, moreover, since that time, he no longer dared to appear before me. He begged my servant not to tell the story, promising in return to send me the next day, through one of his friends, my belt with his sword string. I indeed received these objects wrapped in two very precious papers for me: these constituted the proof that the proceeds of the theft had been hidden in the house of a musician, located near the University, where the students were going to feast with women.
This restitution generously operated, I subsequently had the opportunity to meet this student. He advised me to abandon my astrological practices, 'because, he said, it is not possible that you personally have such means: the Devil must certainly have something to do with it! I listened, and thanked him for his advice. "

Fludd then goes on to explore 12 questions related to a theft.

1) Is the object lost or not?

If the Ruler of the Hour or the Ruler of the House where the Moon is conjunct the Moon or the Ruler of the ASC, there is a good chance that the lost object was not stolen, but is hidden in some corner of the house of the Querent.

2) Several thieves?

See if the Moon is at the angle of the Earth and in a bi-corporeal sign (Gemini, Sagttarius, Virgo) in which case there are several thieves if however the ASC is disposed the same way.
If the ASC is in Fixed sign, there is one thief.
If the ruler of the Ascendant is masculine and the Ruler of the Hour is feminine or vice versa, the thieves are a couple.

3) The thief a man or a woman?

If the Lord of the ASC and the Planetary Hour are the same, judge Male or Female accordingly.

4) Is the thief a member of the family?

We must consider the Lord of House 6; if he is in House 2, the thief is of the family of the robbed, that is to say he is related to him: brother, sister, etc. It will be the same if the Lord of House 6 meets in Houses 1 or 3 (after Bacon).
If the Sun and the Moon, at the same time, look at the ASC, the thief is also of the family of the robber (after Alkindus).
The Lord of House 6, placed in the ASC or in House 2, or being with the Lord of House 2, indicates that the thief is a servant or a member of the household.

5) Is the thief noble? (from the latin nobilis, modern would be gentleman)

If the significator (Lord of the 7th House) is a beneficent planet, and in particular Jupiter, the thief is of good family and well brought up, otherwise it is the opposite.

6) How old is the thief?

If the Significant planet is Oriental (not clear here if he means Oriental to the Sun or Oriental to the figure, near the ASC) or placed in the Oriental Quarter of the sky (1-12-11), or if the Moon is new (1st Quarter), the thief is young. (Note: If anybody has a better understanding of what Fludd meant here, you are more than welcome)
Mercury, especially if it is Oriental or located in the ASC, always indicates a child or young man.
Any signifier, except Saturn, being Oriental or in the ASC, likewise indicates a child or a young man.
The conjunction of the significator with Mercury or Venus is also a sign of youth.

7) Thief Description

The thief's description is provided both by the Signifier himself and by the planets or the fixed stars to which he is conjoined in longitude or in latitude.
Fixed stars give a physical appearance identical to that provided by planets of the same nature. Thus the stars of the nature of Mars provide the same physical appearance that Mars would provide.
If the Signifier is conjunct with the Descending Node of the Moon, the thief will be misshapen, especially if Saturn sends an evil aspect. And the deformity will concern the part of the body to which the sign corresponds where the Signifier is located.
We must also examine the sign of the 7th House and the planets or stars that are on the cusp: it is by mixing their forecasts that we find the description of the thief.
Moreover, the Signifier being in Apogee, the thief will be tall; in Perigee, the thief will be short.
It is also necessary to see of what nature are the Signifier and the stars with which it is conjoined: indeed, if by nature it is humid and that the neighboring planets and stars are humid, the thief will be rather fat; if, on the contrary, he is dry and thé planets conjunct alike, the thief will look opposite.
We will refer to the tables of stellar determinations, as to the aspect of the human body, tables that we have given in the book dealing with the Zodiacal Signs, and the following dealing with the Planets. I have always used it to give the exact descriptive description of a person, but I did not only rely on the sign of the 7th House, I also took the Lord of this House and the sign where this Lord was.

Height of the thief according to the planets

Saturn - Oriental: medium but rather short - Occidental: short
Jupiter: - Oriental: Slencer - Occidental: Average but rather large
Mars: Oriental Slender - Occidental Medium but rather large
Venus: Oriental Average but rather large Western: Average
Mercury: According to the Oriental or the Occidental position of the Ruler of Mercury
Sun and Moon: At home, depending on the nature of the sign occupied by these stars.

Height according to the Signs

Aries, Taurus, Libra, Scorpio - Average but rather large
Leo, Virgo, Sagittarius, - Slender
Cancer, Capricorn, Pisces - Short
Gemini, - Medium
Aquarius - Average but rather large

Rule: The beginning of each sign makes the size larger and the end smaller.
Rule: Gemini, Virgo, Libra, Sagittarius, Aquarius which are human signs give a well-proportioned body. The other signs predispose to a variable physical appearance.
Rule: The Moon being in the Signs of high size increases it further: in the Signs of small size it decreases it.
Rule: The Sun in the West reveals a tall stature and curly blond hair.
Rule: The Eastern planets, in relation to the Sun or placed in the East in the chart, lengthen the size a little, especially if they are in aspect with Saturn.
Rule: The planets that are in their first station increase the vigor of the body.
Rule: Combust planets decrease general beauty, give heaviness and awkwardness.
The planets, in their second station, make poor people.
Rule: Mercury in Scorpio makes you bald.
Rule: Saturn or Mars, peregrine and in ASC make a stain on the face; if they are hampered by bad aspects, retrograde or combust, this stain will be monstrous and appalling.
Rule: Saturn located in Cancer, gives a misshapen and hideous physiognomy.
Rule: The first half of Aries, Taurus and Leo, are ready to gain weight and the second half to lose weight.
Rule: The first half of Sagittarius, Gemini, Scorpio, tend to be thin and puny; the second half to be fat and robust.
Rule: Virgo, Libra, Sagittarius make people sane and well-proportioned.
Rule: Retrograde planets give corpulence and disproportion in the limbs.
Rule: The planets in their first station reveal a vigorous and resistant body, but a little fat
Rule: Direct planets give an appearance of thinness.
Rule: Planets southern to the ecliptic indicate a fleshy appearance, but nonetheless slender and agile; the northern planets, relative to the ecliptic, make it thick and heavy.
(All these rules, of course, are applicable in any research even and especially in the event of birth)

8 ) Did the Querent steal himself?

If Mars is the Thief's Signifier and is in the 10th House, it is the querent who stole himself.

9) What side is the thief on or hiding?

One must examine the Lord of the 7th house and, depending on his position, decide whether the thief fled east or west.

10) Where is the lost object hidden or stolen?

Depending on whether the Lord of the planetary hour is located in an Eastern or Western, Southern or Northern sign, the lost object lies in the Quarter of the corresponding horizon plane.
We then make a distinction in this Horizontal quarter after the Lord of the sign where the Lord of the planetary hour meets, by proceeding in the same way.
On the other hand, if the Moon is at ASC, the lost object lies in the East; If the Sun is at the West corner, the lost object is West, Midheaven, South, Immum Coeli, North.
If we want to push our research further, we will only have to examine in which Sign is this Lord of the planetary hour and refer to the table on page 226 for the correspondence of the Signs with the Countries and the Cities.

11) Is the lost or stolen object far from its owner?

The answer to this question comes from the distance of the Moon from the Lord of the Ascendant. If these two stars are in the same quarter of the sky and within 30 degrees of each other, the lost object is in the home of its owner or in the immediate vicinity. If they are more than 30 degrees apart and less than 70 degrees apart, the object is in the same group of houses. If the Moon and the ASC Lord are not in the same quarter of the sky, the object is far away.

12) Will the theft be known or will it remain unknown?

If a planet is Peregrine and does not aspect the Lord of the House where it is placed, moreover, if neither the Luminaries, nor the ruling planet look at the ASC and the Luminaries have no aspect between them, then the thief cannot be discovered. (Note: even more so if in a Water sign because they are mute).
But if the affirmative results from the preceding conditions, and especially in the case of the aspect of the Luminaries with the ASC, the thief will be all the more easily discovered that the aforementioned stars will be in the angles of the theme. Indeed, if the Lord of the House where the Signifier is placed looks at the Luminaries or only one of them, the theft will first make little noise, then finally be discovered.
Finally, if the Lord of the House where the Signifier is placed looks at the latter and if the two Luminaries are at the same time in aspect between them and, above the Horizon, with the said Signifier and also with the ASC, the smallest details of the theft will be known.

Review: Some of his answers seem sketchy at times but he goes at great length in the description of the thief, more so than other Horary references.
In Chapter 2, he has a lot to say about the degree types
https://www.skyscript.co.uk/gl/degree_types.html
Which would be another chapter!
Another aspect of Robert Fludd below an article by Dylan Warren-Davis
https://www.skyscript.co.uk/cheiromancy.html

As always, comments are always welcome!
Ouranos
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AmeliaS



Joined: 07 Apr 2020
Posts: 267

Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, Ouranos. A friend just asked me to read a who-stole-it chart and this did help. (Of course, I still reiterated to her that I could be wrong!)

Amelia
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Zagata



Joined: 15 Dec 2011
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Location: Ruse, Bulgaria

Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for sharing, Ouranus.

It is such a pleasure to read the delineations of ancient masters and the confidence with which they stood by their conclusions.

Do you know whether Robert Fludd provided the data for that horary? I would love to take a look at it myself and add it to my collection.
Very Happy
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Ouranos



Joined: 28 Mar 2020
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Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Amelia and Zagata!
Robert Fludd lived during a period when astrology was starting to decline and about to enter the world of obscurity and magic. Scientific figures were on the rise like Copernicus, Kepler and Galileo. And it was not easy to reconcile the two.
Sometimes what Fludd says comes from the tradition but it is interesting to see his own interpretation of it.
The French translation of 'De Astrologia' I have found on the web does not have a chart for the theft he describes in Book VI.
I have extracted the part on Horary but his book has a lot more from Fixed stars to weather or lunations.

Ouranos
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Zagata



Joined: 15 Dec 2011
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Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Ouranus,

Thank you for the explanation. I see your point, but let's not forget that Galileo and Kepler were also practising astrologers. Very Happy There is a delineation done by Galileo on sky script. And I also have an article about Kepler and his delineation of general Wallenstein's horoscope.
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