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Book preview: Annual Predictive Techniques
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Martin Gansten
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Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Ouranos, I'm glad you found something of value in the book. I have to agree with Ben Dykes (as quoted by Therese) that the fardār (etc.) system doesn't fit into the interlocking techniques of directions, profections and transits. I haven't really worked with it.

As for co-risings (paranatellonta), I personally only consider them when the stars are actually rising (or setting, or culminating) in the radix, by direction, or in the revolution. There are a few instances mentioned in the book; see pp. 124, 138, and 146. (No, I didn't memorize them; I looked them up now.) Wink I'm not really familiar with Brady's work, and no, I don't use midpoints.
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Ouranos



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Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Therese for the reference to Ben Dykes on the matter.

Thank you Martin for the clarification on your approach.
With regards to Bernadette Brady's work which comes from the astrologer Anonymous of 379, which seems to echo how you work with fixed stars.
https://www.astro.com/astrology/in_fixstar_e.htm
and further, the Italian astrologer Patrizia Nava
http://www.astrologiaoraria.com/articoli.html
Her article on "Ephemeral cards and fixed stars"
and
"Bright and Helpful Stars" published by F. Cumont in the first tome of the fifth volume of Catalogus Codicum Astrologorum Graecorum (CCAG), pag. 194-211., also included in Rhetorius’ works (Rhet.) in the VI century (D. Pingree, The Astrological School of John Abramius, Dumbarton Oaks Papers, 1971, pag. 209)

Kind regards,
Ouranos
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pankajdubey



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Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Managed to buy the more affordable kindle version Very Happy
I have two things - I find the Muntha to be useful and defines the flavour of the year - Muntha though is not dealt in any detail in the Tajik tests.
There is a saying in Urdu- zar( wealth/Gold), Zoru(wife) and Zameen( land) are all held by zor (strength/power) otherwise you lose them.
The meaning of jar(zar) seems to be changing over time.
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Martin Gansten
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Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm glad to hear the Kindle version serves some purpose (though from an aesthetic point of view, I sympathize with Scottish bookseller Shaun Bythell who shot and mounted a Kindle -- you can do an image search for that!). I'm sorry if the printed book is a bit expensive by Indian standards; it's an unavoidable consequence of it being produced in Europe.

If you are looking for material on the munthā (Arabic muntahā) or degree of the profected ascendant itself, as opposed to its ruler (the Perso-Arabic ruler of the year), try my edition/translation of Balabhadra's Hāyanaratna (The Jewel of Annual Astrology), pp. 429-449. In addition to Nīlakaṇṭha, Balabhadra quotes some earlier Tājika authors whose works may not be available even in Hindi translation, such as Samarasiṃha and Tejaḥsiṃha. And the book is free! Very Happy
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pankajdubey



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Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martin Gansten wrote:
I'm glad to hear the Kindle version serves some purpose (though from an aesthetic point of view, I sympathize with Scottish bookseller Shaun Bythell who shot and mounted a Kindle -- you can do an image search for that!). I'm sorry if the printed book is a bit expensive by Indian standards; it's an unavoidable consequence of it being produced in Europe.

If you are looking for material on the munthā (Arabic muntahā) or degree of the profected ascendant itself, as opposed to its ruler (the Perso-Arabic ruler of the year), try my edition/translation of Balabhadra's Hāyanaratna (The Jewel of Annual Astrology), pp. 429-449. In addition to Nīlakaṇṭha, Balabhadra quotes some earlier Tājika authors whose works may not be available even in Hindi translation, such as Samarasiṃha and Tejaḥsiṃha. And the book is free! Very Happy

Ironically, Blythell's book is available in kindle format too - the kindle version seventeen rupees costlier than the printed book. He had his revenge on kindle.
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james_m



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Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pankajdubey,

long time no see! happy new year... you can pick up a copy of the book - confessions of a bookseller much cheaper on abebooks - another outlet gobbled up by amazon.. i see a copy for £ 7.54 with free shipping from the uk to canada... the link is a bit too long to share here...


martin,

thanks for these conversations... i went and visited your website this morning.. it seems to have been updated with more commentary from you in a few different sections.. i was intrigued by the section on 'astrology and religion' and what you had written their...

regarding the section of the jewel of annual astrology and the section of the book you mention - pages 429-449, i just finished reading this section... thanks for pointing that out... in a comment at the very end of the section on page 449 i am curious if you would care to comment on the use and context of precession... thanks - here is the quote -

"Yādavasūri states [another] special rule [in Tājikayogasudhānidhi 8.29]:
When precession has been added to the ascendant of the nativity,"

any comments on this - i am curious.. thanks - james
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Martin Gansten
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Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, my website was auspiciously reincarnated a few months ago. Very Happy As for Yādavasūri, he was relating (as a sort of sidenote) the opinion of Romaka ('the Roman[s]', probably meaning one or more Byzantine astrologers, as the Byzantines identified as Romans and were known as such in Arabic), which involved using the tropical domicile ruler of the profection as ruler of the year. Byzantine astrologers typically used Ptolemy's tropical tables. To Yādavasūri, sidereal values were the default, so the tropical positions would be derived by adding the ayanāṃśa or precessional value to the sidereal. I discuss this briefly on pp. 50-51 of Annual Predictive Techniques.
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james_m



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Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thank you martin!
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pankajdubey



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Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

james_m wrote:
pankajdubey,

long time no see! happy new year... you can pick up a copy of the book - confessions of a bookseller much cheaper on abebooks - another outlet gobbled up by amazon.. i see a copy for £ 7.54 with free shipping from the uk to canada... the link is a bit too long to share here...


martin,

thanks for these conversations... i went and visited your website this morning.. it seems to have been updated with more commentary from you in a few different sections.. i was intrigued by the section on 'astrology and religion' and what you had written their...

regarding the section of the jewel of annual astrology and the section of the book you mention - pages 429-449, i just finished reading this section... thanks for pointing that out... in a comment at the very end of the section on page 449 i am curious if you would care to comment on the use and context of precession... thanks - here is the quote -

"Yādavasūri states [another] special rule [in Tājikayogasudhānidhi 8.29]:
When precession has been added to the ascendant of the nativity,"

any comments on this - i am curious.. thanks - james

@james_m
Happy new year to you as well.
Got busy with photography as a hobby then lately with managing COVID etc.
The kindle book is equivalent of 7USD so ok for now.

I came to know if hayanratna from Martin in 2011 or so ,when he was looking for other commentaries on this and neelkanthi .I searched in the digital library of India which, at that time had a rudimentary downloader and erratic connection.
I do agree with Pingree’s assertion that kanyakubja is most likely Brahmin. It is almost that if you say kanyakubja it is presumed kanyakubja Brahmin even though it relates to an area.
I liked the material on muntha but some other things in that translation caught my eye.
Using- 4th house as that for happiness in that example of
The Tambīra Configuration (3.14).

It uses the 4 th house for both parents but the fifth house specifically states - unions( annotated as- sexual) different from what is often not recommended in now-traditional western astrology.
The tambira configuration itself is very interesting.
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Martin Gansten
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Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pankajdubey wrote:
I do agree with Pingree’s assertion that kanyakubja is most likely Brahmin. It is almost that if you say kanyakubja it is presumed kanyakubja Brahmin even though it relates to an area.

We're wildly off-topic now, Very Happy but just to clarify: if you are referring to Balabhadra himself (whom Pingree described as 'a Kānyakubja Brāhmaṇa'), then it is clear from Balabhadra's self-description at the beginning of his work that he was indeed a Brahmin of the Bharadvāja gotra and that his ancestors hailed from Kānyakubja/Kannauj, though he doesn't say where he himself was born (which I suspect was Varanasi).

Quote:
It uses the 4 th house for both parents but the fifth house specifically states - unions( annotated as- sexual) different from what is often not recommended in now-traditional western astrology.

Yes, from the context (with 'the forming of the limbs of a foetus' immediately following), the word संधान saṃdhāna (literally 'putting together') seems most likely to refer to coitus. Balabhadra quotes this meaning without comment from one Caṇḍeśvara, but I don't think he uses it in any of his own examples.

Quote:
The tambira configuration itself is very interesting.

Do you mean its origin as a 'creative misunderstanding'?
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pankajdubey



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Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Martin,
Interesting in how he allows the consideration of a quesited planet moving in the next sign ,and ithhasala in next sign with a dignified planet in that sign ,hence a favourable outcome but no mention of relation to the L1 .
He does not mention whether Venus applies to Jupiter as well.
..
He doesn’t mention the mutual reception by exaltation between Jupiter and Venus and that Saturn in next sign will be in Jupiter’s own sign and hence the connection between the three.
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Paul
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Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm still making my way through this book, and very much enjoying it so far.

However, whilst I haven't finished the book, I did feel compelled to reply to some rather unpleasant comments about Martin Gansten and his conclusions here on facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/255463457823136/permalink/3678834885485959/

In it, I learned, Gansten is a "whole sign house denier" - a new term for me which seems to imply someone, much like say a holocaust denier, who denies that some major historical developement or event occurred. I'm honestly fed up with this kind of religiosity about the history of houses, whole sign houses in particular, and worse, the kind of disinterest that someone would pay to an astrologer who is also an academic. Obviously PhD carrying astrologers are somewhat thin on the ground (though there are a healthy number of them) but you would think that there might be some pause, or a desire to find some nuance rather than remove nuance when you realise the person commenting on the history is themselves as much an expert on history as someone can be. That doesnt' imply they'd always be right or that anything they say needs to be taken as gospel, but you might imagine that they would at least be given some benefit of the doubt. Sadly not in the compelling world of social media.

I'm honestly just sick to death of this kind of religiosity when it comes to house systems, let alone zodiacs.

Whilst I'm the admin of skyscript, until Deborah Houlding sees fit to do away with me, I would like to suggest that Skyscript be a place where such religiosity does not exist. This also applies to the zodiac of choice. I know there's been some tension on this in the past. But I would like to draw a line in the sand here. Use any zodiac and any house system you want on any forum on this site - if you think it might lead to confusion, try to include what you're using in the chart so we all know what we're looking at.

Also let's double down on adding nuance rather than subtracting it.

"Tyranny is the deliberate removal of nuance", Albert Maysles
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Martin Gansten
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Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, Paul. I've been called many things, but that's a first for me. Very Happy It is interesting to see the degree to which this particular idea has become an article of faith and a shibboleth, sorting the true believers from the heretics. Rejecting whole-sign houses in favour of systems that have a history of 1,500 to 2,000 years is unacceptable if you want to be a 'traditional' astrologer, while using Uranus or sesquisquares is fine...

Actually, speaking as a historian of astrology, I would be very interested to see any textual evidence explicitly teaching the concept of whole-sign houses. As I say in the book, I don't doubt they were often used, as they still are in India. Perhaps such evidence will turn up one day, perhaps not. The question of how well they work will still be a separate matter, of course.

In any case, I'm glad I've stayed away from Facebook.
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james_m



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Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i know i used to joke about this trad fundamentalism when i first came to skyscript.. while it was disappearing, i was becoming educated in traditional astrology...

i have noticed the parallels in music where people are very particular about what kinds of music they will or won't listen to... generally unless you are a musician - and even musicians suffer from this condition - most people get attached to a particular style and think all the others are beneath them, or unworthy of there attention....

it seems the same thing happens in certain astrological circles - fundamentalism sets in and the downside of it becomes apparent for anyone to see.. instead of accepting that others will do astrology with a different system, they express intolerance!

no better place to see this is in religion! apparently it has to be jesus, or buddha, mohammad or krishna as god - but it can't be all of them!!!

i think astrology does share something in common with religion and music... fanatics and bigots won't recognize their narrow view or how it closes them off from so much, but open minded people in all these same fields will appreciate and put it all in context... well - i am speaking optimistically here....
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Michael Sternbach
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Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wot?! Now that I was going to make swearing unquestioning obedience to Robert Schmidt a requirement for getting permission to post in the traditional forum! Tongue Out Wink Laughing

Well, I am taking a more liberate stand on this question than my predecessor, evidently. My criterion being the overall thrust and aim of a post rather than strict adherence to what we may think of as the traditional approach.

I would probably be surprised to see someone using Gauquelin sectors in a post there, however, if it were, say, in the context of a comparative study that involves ancient techniques as well, I'd have no issue with it.

Much like in regards to spiritual traditions in general, I believe that there is a singular truth underlying all of astrology, which we attempt to get a hold on perusing whatever school and methods we may prefer on an individual level.

Respectful discussion of the pros and cons of different approaches is fine, but dogmatic insistence on any one approach being binding for anyone who claims to be an astrologer is clearly out of place on Skyscript. Exclamation

Edit: I am occasionally posting on a martial arts forum - the most heated debates there feel like an old ladies' tea party with cake compared to the kind of altercations astrologers tend to engage in!
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