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Peregrine planets

 
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Zosma



Joined: 11 Nov 2018
Posts: 194

Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:49 pm    Post subject: Peregrine planets Reply with quote

I have a Mars Peregrine ( according to traditional astrology)in Gemini but it is conjunct the MC in the 10 th house using the Placidus house system
It aspects nearly every planet in the chart & it is close to aldebaran & antiscion my moon. So in my career house I am like a wanderer through a foreign country so in some respects that’s true my mother was a refugee from the 2nd world war & my work has always been through word of mouth.
Yet Noel Tyl taught that if a planet is in aspect it’s is not peregrine & in some way I recognise that he may also be right in that I have unique qualifications that my customers seek me out for, & my parents had easily established themselves in a foreign country using their own efforts & no assistance from the state. So to my mind when I weigh up these & many other points I believe that Noel may be right in his definition on Peregrine in that aspects negate a traditional peregrine definition.
Any thoughts on this?
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srsedna



Joined: 22 May 2019
Posts: 35

Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In what signs are the aspecting planets? Aspects from Mars-friendly signs would help a lot.
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Zosma



Joined: 11 Nov 2018
Posts: 194

Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes Pluto square /mercury square in fall combusted /Jupiter in opposition in Sag /Neptune inconjunct in Scorpio Saturn exact inconjunct in Capricorn / Mars is in sect night birth Some say it is in Hayz others that it is not because Gemini is masculine & it would help Mars to be cooled more, but Mars is a mixed bag for me it seems to bring challenges which are not insurmountable & recently as it transited my 8th house in Aries over the South node / part of fortune it brought financial benefits three times each time the retrogrades/directs passed over this point.
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3963
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://skyscript.co.uk/gl/peregrine.html

hi zosma... my own thinking on this is like looking at the dvide between traditional and modern astrology... once one starts using modern aspects and etc, this concept of peregrine makes less and less sense.... i have given over to thinking it is a useful definition for horary, but maybe not so much for chart interpretation.. however it would be fun to see your chart to see how others viewed it..

my own situation has been further complicated by the fact i continue to simultaneously entertain a tropical and sidereal zodiac... what isn't in one, often is in the other and vice versa... i realize i am in a minority holding to the thought that both zodiacs have merit... when it comes to concepts like this i see the relativity in them all... so, whether this idea is particularly applicable to horary astrology only or not - is the subject for much debate perhaps..
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Zosma



Joined: 11 Nov 2018
Posts: 194

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[][/img]
Hi James
Chart is included have have fun.I feel Mars is very powerful in this chart & I see a lot of peregrine influence but the aspects help to intergrate it & give the peregrine a sense of belonging so it seems that traditional & Noel Tyl are both correct.
In my work I am called upon to resolve critical transformational issues as Mars rules the 8th house & with the south node being there I find that I already know the answer to put things right.
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3963
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi zosma,

i think you are correct - both are valid - traditional and modern, but they are both approaching the astrology from a different vantage point.. i suppose a traditional astrologer would argue you have no real control over the nature of mars, but it is hard for me to see this given the close conjunction of mars to midheaven... one could say south node in the 8th means you are on the receiving end of circumstances beyond your control too.. there is a balancing act with the two planets who regulate the nodal axis - mars and venus, with venus strong in your chart, helping you to balance any surprises that come your way thru relationships... venus by being in the 7th and in pisces, is very positive...

mercury is more complicated and in the squares to mars, jupiter and opp to pluto.. and it too would be considered peregrine as i understand it.. so that is 2 planets in square peregrine one another! and again, if we consider aspects as offsetting the peregrine concept - mercury is in many aspects to other planets, most notably the sextile to saturn which is considered favourable in giving more practicality and reason to the mercury nature.. so, i suppose it depends on what the interpretation is for, or of... in a natal chart i would be curious and hopefully someone will explain the traditional use of peregrine as it applies natally here with your chart.. thanks for sharing!
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 1146

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would think Mars in the MC peregrine and lording the PoF in the 8th would suggest some episodes of poverty in your life, and ups and downs. Mars in the 10th in general can tend to show shorter stints of work rather than working at the same thing for decades also. I have Mars dignified in the 10th and it is still true for me. I was reading about financial indicators in Simmonite today and I have Saturn peregrine lording my PoF in the 8th and I did come from poverty and have been homeless twice (as a child). Debt can be an issue too and I struggled in my 20s with creditors. Paulus also says Mars ill in the 10th shows acrimony with superiors and it could support criminal behavior if other things aren't helping (in your case you have quite a few dignified planets that hold power in your chart), especially square Pluto and with a bad Mercury.

The 10th is pretty important regarding our public persona and reputation, so Mars not so great standing out there can be a bit problematic. It could show such things as scandals, etc. I would think at the very least it could show an iconoclast. Even having Mars dignified, I still have some of the negative attributes associated with Mars there, some good too though. Mars on an angle in general is going to show a fighting spirit and probably someone bold, impulsive, brave and who may have more energy than a typical person. Sometimes that can be exaggerated in negative ways, such as Trump's in Leo on his ASC, which with minor dignity does still bring him some trouble (although some good too).

Mars on an angle lording the 8th is also something to pay attention to regarding directions, I would imagine. You have two angular benefics in good shape to help aid your life, regardless.
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Zosma



Joined: 11 Nov 2018
Posts: 194

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, James & Tanit
Love your insights so much truth,

[ one could say south node in the 8th means you are on the receiving end of circumstances beyond your control too..] Yes
& Tanit
[Mars in the 10th in general can tend to show shorter stints of work rather than working at the same thing for decades also] Yes.
Mercury combust & Peregrine has been a curse on my life very very problematic
although it is within helical phase & at least not retrograde but it has affected me physically. Combusted by 12th house lord & 8th house exalted lord.
Tanit does your Mars represent your Mother in some way being in the 10th for it did represent my mother for sure,...a tough tough lady who created a lot of problems for me ( mercury combusted ) Moon antiscia.
Mars is with me each day as I use very sharp tools & blow torches in my work
& I am often in dangerous high positions should it have been more malefic I probably would not have survived for so long, The older I get the cooler the Mars becomes.
It was in the Mars Firdaria period that I decided to travel over a thousand miles
to marry my wife in a foreign country & nobody knew about it until I came home ,,,,How Peregrine is that!
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 1146

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Tanit does your Mars represent your Mother in some way being in the 10th for it did represent my mother for did represent my mother for sure,...a tough tough lady who created a lot of problems for me


My mother was a violent person with a volatile temper. She has Mars in Leo conjunct Pluto and Venus Square both (and also Sun and Venus in Scorpio) and my Mars in Aries has a wide orb to opp Pluto, with a Venus/Mars conjunction opp Pluto. Her relationship with my father was very, very toxic/abusive and controlling for both of them.

I also use Mars in my work and it is a dangerous field for me too.

Regarding directions for your Mars, Simmonite says that an occidental Mars can point to illnesses rather than an oriental, which would point to accidents. For major illnesses, they may have been/will be influenced by Mars in your chart.
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Zosma



Joined: 11 Nov 2018
Posts: 194

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for sharing Tanit
[Her relationship with my father was very, very toxic/abusive and controlling for both of them..... Exactly the same for me.
In fact towards the end period of her life I became very distraught over an apparition which I perceived shaping over her as she fixed her gaze on me I sensed the presence of evil. After she left a blessed religious statue was decapitated by unseen swords & both my wife & I suffered a long period of bad health . Make of it what you will I decided to throw out all furniture she came into contact with to try & reverse the bad energy after she passed.
With the recent Venus going direct over my Mars , my wife fell ill , I located the energy to a radiator which my partner used to warm herself against ... exactly where she contacted the radiator that was the place the illness attacked. With Mars in proximity of Pleiades a transit here often brings stories
of witchcraft. Be that as it may for me it is a truth for others it brings ridicule
Tanit where can I get the Simmonite or is it unavailable?[/quote]
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 1146

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Tanit where can I get the Simmonite or is it unavailable?


https://archive.org/details/completearcanaa00storgoog/page/n35/mode/2up

I would download the pdf. The document is difficult to scroll through on the scanned page.
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Zosma



Joined: 11 Nov 2018
Posts: 194

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your help Tanit
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Zosma



Joined: 11 Nov 2018
Posts: 194

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing I feel I need to add to this thread is what I recently uncovered & that is that peregrine does matter & it can be seen through the bounds.
As an example my Venus in the 7 th is in the bounds of Mars, Mars being
peregrine feels like it is in a foreign country, & indeed I had to travel through foreign countries to marry my wife & she travelled through foreign countries
to settle with me. I also have Neptune in the bounds of Mars & at one point
of my life my religion was alien to my roots & from another culture altogether.
As I examine planets in the bounds in charts I see that planets operate according to the bound rulers & should they be peregrine then peregrine rules would apply to the planets.
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La Jupiter



Joined: 06 Jan 2021
Posts: 22

Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello. I remember reading this online. This astrological author was trying to rank the strength of planets. He assigned top points for domiciled and exalted planets, which is expected. However, he assigned the maximum negative points for not just planets in detriment or fall, but peregrine planets as well. This puzzled me. I can see giving a low score for detriment and fall, but what's wrong with peregrine? Sure they are not dignified, but they are not in a really bad position, either.

Do you agree with this author? What is your thought on the strength of peregrine planets?
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Ouranos



Joined: 28 Mar 2020
Posts: 512

Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello La Jupiter,

**Examples are taken from Denis Labouré 'Cours pratique d'Astrologie' and also getting a good grasp of dignities, the link to Andrew J. Bevan below and all quotes are free translations.
https://www.astronor.com/dignities.htm

Domicile and Exaltation are considered the major dignities.

To Judge of a Peregrine planet or any planet, you can also consider the minor dignities.

- Triplicities
According to the Greeks, planets are dignified when they look at each other by triangle
Fire = Sun (Day)/Jupiter (Night) /Saturn (Common)
Earth = Venus (Day) /Moon (Night) /Mars (Common)
Air = Saturn (Day) /Mercury (Night) /Jupiter (Common)
Water= Venus (Day) /Mars (Night) /Moon (Common)
In order, if day birth = Day, Night, Common. If night birth - Night/Day/Common
See the excellent article of Anthony Louis for the logic behind Triplicity Rulers
https://tonylouis.wordpress.com/2017/03/16/the-logic-behind-triplicity-rulers/

How does the planet feel?
According to Lilly, a planet in his own Triplicity is like a man 'modestly endowed with the goods and opportunities of this world"
Ibn Ezra compares it to 'a man in the house of a family member'. He is not at home but comfortable.
In a relationship, if A is in the Triplicity of B, it is not the passion but they are good friends.
In a job, if the ruler of my ASC is in the Triplicity of the ruler of my MC, I will not be a hero in my job but I am satisfied with my current position.

- Terms
The latin word 'termini' signifies frontiers, territories, limits. They are a division in 5 parts of each sign. Egyptian terms.
Ibn Ezra describes it as 'a man in his seat'. It can be compared to a man renting a villa in a foreign country. He is not at home but in a familiar environment.

How does the planet feel?
If a planet A occcupies the term of planet B, it shows interest in what Planet B does. Always better than indifference or hostility
For a job, if my potential employer MC is in my term, at least he has some interest in my candidature.
If Planet A occupies its own term
"A significator located in its own terms represents someone with reasonable merit, skill and background within an appropriate field. Understanding. The person is on his own terms, in his own office and administration. Insight and experience. The significator more apt to act because he or she has greater capacity for action. The person has the know-how of the trade. Being in own terms gives capacity for negotiation, to do business and to set the terms. Knowing what one is talking about. More readily qualified or certified. The right to voice an opinion on valid grounds. Performing, doing business and having a good reason for doing so. Being at either the right or wrong place but for a good reason. Being on a mission. Here we have a reasonable stand-in or substitution. Someone who has more than a tourist visa and holds a credible work permit. Secretary, Officer, Administrating or Executive." (Andrew Bevan)

- Decans
In its origin, the decans were divinities associated to Fixed Stars. The position of Fixed Stars in the decan before sunrise were governing the next 10 days in the egyptian calendar.
"A significator appearing in its own face represents someone who behaves with dignity, keeps his poise and makes an acceptable appearance. The person receives a casual, coincidental credit, is admitted on legitimate grounds to appear among audience or peers. Delegate or attendant. Employed or deployed to a subordinate office. Dignity by face indicates the right to be present, to show face and display, but the freedom of speech, exercise of will and scope of performance is limited. Personal opinion is of minor importance since there is a need to submit to order and abide the rules. Knowing ones place. Like holding a tourist visa. The ability to meet formalities and being on safe ground. Receiving preference, sympathy, staying in good word, a coincidental or casual replacement, being there, someone to hold the stand, getting round with a squeal or a single thread. Admit, Ticket holder, Guard, Attendant, Representative, Observer, Witness, Defense, Servant. Proof, Evidence, Authentic and Testimony." (Andrew Bevan)

How does a planet feel?
Ibn Ezra described a planet in its own decan as 'a man dressed in his ornaments and clothes'
Lilly says (free quote): '...like a man having difficulties maintaning his credit and his reputation.'
So Planet A in the decan of Planet B. Planet B will show a vague interest to Planet A and this interest will be ephemeral.

- Peregrine
"A planet is said to be peregrine when he is lacking and has no essential dignities. He is a 'foreigner' and 'outsider' and has no association with the territory (Deb Houlding). A peregrine planet is a stranger who cannot be relied upon and when in an angle or the 2nd house in a question of theft he is taken as the significator of the thief. When both Mercury and Mars are peregrine it denotes cheating, says Goldstein-Jacobsen. According to Lilly a planet with essential dignities is like a noble soul that has his enemy in his clutches but scornes to hurt him, while a planet that is peregrine is malicious beyond all expression. He says, 'Confide not trust too much in the assistance a fortune lends, unless he be in essential dignities; for then he performs matters wholly, else by halves.' (Andrew Bevan)

How does the planet feel?
Like a stranger in a foreign country. He is not totally free, has to abide by certain rules. In fact he is not totally himself.

Blessings
Ouranos
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Blessings!
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