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Some thoughts about the Joys

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Joined: 21 Nov 2010
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:06 pm    Post subject: Some thoughts about the Joys Reply with quote

This is my first post on this forum and so I hope you will bear with me as I build on old ideas to put forward some new thoughts that link the Joys of the planets to houses.

Most of us, traditional or modern, would accept the cycle of a day is symbolic of the cycle of a year Sunrise like spring, Noon like summer, Sunset like Autumn, Midnight like winter.

There is also a clear parallel between the daily movement of the ascendant and the yearly- seasonal movement of the Sun.
One could say that the daily ascendant in it's movement south and north is analogous to the seasonal Sun.
The Sun does not rise at the same point every day, it only rises due east at the spring or autumn equinox. Otherwise it rises to to the south or north of due east depending on the season (and thus sign it is in).
During the day the ecliptic also moves south or north of due east as all 12 signs rise and set, duplicating the Sun's annual range.
Each day the Ascendant's southern most position is at the same place as the Sun when it is at 0 Capricorn (the winter solstice).
Each day the Ascendant's northmost position during the day is at the same place as the Sun when it is at 0 Cancer (The summer solstice).
These mark the boundaries of the Ascendant.

As a result, each day as the vernal equinox (0 Aries) moves around the diurnal chart all the seasons of the year are depicted in order on the Ascendant by the signs.

And simultaneously with the cardinal sign of each season rising, the Vernal equinox comes to the angle that symbolically depicts each season.

This is easy to see if we use the first day of spring (Sun 0 Aries) as our example.

The Sun rises at daybreak so the spring equinox of 0 Aries rises on the Ascendant.
As the Sun comes to high Noon, the Ascendant is at it's most northernmost and Cancer the Summer solstice sign rises.
As the Sun sets in the west, the Ascendant is again due east as Libra the Autumn sign rises.
At Midnight of the vernal equinox, the Ascendant is at its most southernmost and Capricorn the Winter solstice sign rises.

I started by explaining how the daily Ascendant is analogous to the seasonal sun, and then showed how the vernal equinox or 0 Aries in it's daily rotation from ascendant to zenith to Descendant to nadir also simultaneously indicates the seasons.

Now I want to show how this relates to the Planet's joys.

The joys of the planets.
The planets have joys in the houses and these are usually explained as being houses that suit the nature of the planets where they are particularly comfortable.
e.g. the malefic planets rejoice in the cadent houses of 12th Bad Spirit (Saturn) and 6th Bad Fortune (Mars).
The benefics rejoice in the 11th of Good Spirit (Jupiter) and 5th Good Luck (Venus).
The Sun rejoices in the 9th of Sun God; Moon in 3rd of the Moon goddess.
Mercury rejoices in the First house.
The nocturnal sect planets joys are all below the horizon, while the Diurnal sect planets are all above the horizon.. Mercury, which can be either sect rejoices in the ascendant which using Whole sign houses can be above or below the horizon.

Now going back to the diurnal metaphor we see the rising sign relates to the joys of the planets in an unexpected way.
The fixed signs on the Ascendant clue us in to the joys.

As Aries moves to 12th house the fixed sign Taurus comes to Ascendant. Moon is triplicity night ruler of Taurus and exalted there.
Moon is domiciled in Cancer, which is now on the 3rd cusp, house of Moon's joy.

As Aries moves to 9th house the fixed sign Leo comes to Ascendant. Sun is triplicity day ruler of Leo, and domiciled there.
Sun is exalted in Aries now on 9th cusp, house of Sun's joy.

As Aries moves to 6th house the fixed sign Scorpio comes to Ascendant. Mars is triplicity night ruler of Scorpio and domiciled there.
Mars is domiciled in Aries now on 6th cusp, house of Mars Joy.

As Aries moves to 3rd cusp the fixed sign Aquarius comes to Ascendant. Saturn is triplicity day ruler of Aquarius and also domiciled there.
Saturn is also domiciled in Capricorn now on 12th cusp, house of Saturn's joy.
(Note, Saturn is also triplicity day ruler of Libra and exalted there. When Libra rises Capricorn, Saturn's domicile, is on 4th cusp. Manilius thought Saturn was also in joy in 4th house ).

Mercury, Venus and Jupiter are a little more ambiguous.

Take Venus:
There are two choices. Venus is day triplicity ruler of fixed sign Scorpio. When Scorpio is on ascendant, Pisces the sign of venus' exaltation is on 5th cusp, the house of Venus' Joy. However Scorpio is the sign of detriment for Venus.

Venus is day ruler of the Capricorn (earth) triplicity. When Capricorn rises, Taurus the sign of Venus's domicile is now on 5th cusp, the house of Venus Joy.Libra the other domicile of Venus is on 10th.(Manilius considers Venus also has joy in 10th.)

Only one choice seems to fit Jupiter. Jupiter is participating ruler of the air triplicity which includes Aquarius. When Aquarius rises, Jupiter's sign Sagittarius is on the 11th cusp. Jupiter is domiciled in Sagittarius and joys in 11th house.

That leaves Mercury, the planet with no fixed sect.
Mercury's domicile is Gemini and Mercury is also triplicity night ruler of Gemini. Mercury is also domiciled and exalted in Virgo. When either Gemini or Virgo rises Mercury's sign is on the Ascendant, the house of Mercury's Joy.
I would be interested in any thoughts.

Last edited by Sunsagmoonlib on Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:39 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How did the ancients really associate the planets to houses by Joy? Was it simply due to daily rotation thus an hourly thing? Or was it reflecting an underlying seasonal influence? Perhaps we'll never know. But we can see if there are any seasonal influences that correspond, not just to the Ascendant but the relevant house planetary Joys.

So in northern hemisphere May when Taurus is rising and Cancer is on 3rd house representing Moon's Joy in 3rd what is happening in nature?

This is the 2nd month of Spring. If we track ruminants like deer we see the does are returning to familiar fawn-rearing areas, where there is plenty of green grass for them to produce milk. (Birth of fawns typically takes place late May or June).

Lilly says of 3rd house "Hath signification of brethren, sisters, cousins or kindred, neighbours, small journeys, or inland-journeys, oft removing from one place to another..And is the joy of the Moon; for if she be posited therein, especially in a moveable sign, it's an argument of much travel, trotting and trudging."
The travelling to greener pastures for milk production seems appropriate here for Cancer/Moon and 3rd house

In August when Leo is rising and Aries is on 9th cusp representing the Sun's exaltation , Sun Joys in 9th house.
This is the 2nd month of summer.
During summer many deer migrate to higher elevations. They store fat, and the bucks grow antlers which are still soft so they establish heirarchy with foreleg sparring (forelegs ruled by Aquarius the sign opposite Leo which is rising).
Bucks mingle with does and showcase their antlers.

Lilly says: "By this house we give judgement of voyages or long journeys beyond seas; of religious men, or clergy of any kind, whether bishops or inferior ministers; dreams, visions, foreign countries; of books, learning, church livings, or benefices, advowsons; of the kindred of one's wife. Of colours it hath the green and white.
Of man's body it ruleth the fundament , the hips and thighs. Sagittarius and Jupiter are cosignificators of this house"

While not seeing ruminants as particularly religious, the long journies and rarified air of the elevated slopes accessible at high summer seems appropriate to 9th house, along with the fattening of Jupiter. And the summer learning about other bucks in their herd. The show casing of antlers and strutting does seem dramatically appropriate for the house where Sun has Joy.

In November when Scorpio is rising and Aries is on 6th cusp representing Mars Joy in 6th
This is the 2nd month of Autumn. Leaves turn red. Autumn sees daylight hours shortening which triggers testosterone increase in bucks. Rutting is on in earnest. Bucks fight. Rub antlers, horns on trees. Does come into estrus.
At the onset of the rut, Reindeer bulls begin herding smaller groups of cows and will chase small bulls away.
With Red Deer dominant stags follow groups of hinds during the rut, from August into early winter. The stags may have as many as 20 hinds to keep from other less attractive males.
The rut leaves a stag/buck/bull frail and tired. Sometimes a dominant stag/buck is so weak that he can barely survive the winter. This gives younger bucks a chance to breed does that come into late estrus.
Selection of fittest, healthiest (6th house).

Lilly says of 6th house: "It concerneth men and maid-servants, galley slaves, hogs, sheep, goats, hares, conies, all manner of lesser cattle, and profit and loss got thereby; sickness, its quality and cause, principal humour offending, curable or not curable, whether the disease be short or long; day-labourers, tenants, farmers, shepherds, hogherds, neatherds,[4] warreners; and it signifieth uncles, or the father's brothers and sisters.
It ruleth the inferior part of the belly, and intestines the arse: this house is a feminine and cadent house, unfortunate, as having no aspect to the Ascendant.
Of colours, black colour. Mars rejoyceth in this house, but his cosignificator is of the Signs Virgo, of planets Mercury. "

The herding activity, and the weakness that results from the rutting season expenditure of (mars) energy, seem particularly appropriate to the 6th house.

In winter deer migrate down to their winter range.
In February the 2nd month of winter Aquarius is rising and Capricorn is on cusp of 12th house where Saturn Joys.

During winter, bucks once again form social groups. Younger deer learn how to survive the harsh conditions from the older deer in the herd.
The confinement of the 12th house seems appropriate too for the "deer yard" where the struggle for survival forces white deer to congregate, harsh winter even confining them to it. They trample down the snow in an area that is then known as a "deer yard." ". A yard is located where there is some food around, and where the temperature is relatively warm--for example on a south-facing slope under ever-green trees. Here, fights can break out over the tiniest morsel of food. Fawns usually suffer. They can't reach food on high branches, and bigger, older deer bully them.

Lilly says of the `12th house: "It hath signification of private enemies, of witches, great cattle - as horses, oxen, elephants, &c.; sorrow, tribulation, imprisonments, all manner of affliction, self-undoing, &c., and of such men as maliciously undermine their neighbours, or inform secretly against them.
It hath cosignificators Pisces and Venus; Saturn doth much joy in that house, for naturally Saturn is author of mischief; and it ruleth in man's body the feet."

Of course this rudimentary explanation is not the reasoning passed down to us on Joys. Their explanation is more in the nature of a rationalisation to do with house strength or weakness by aspect to the ascendant. But I wonder if the Joys predate such rationalisations and have to some extent a seasonal basis, like the signs.

Last edited by Sunsagmoonlib on Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was surprised to discover that when the four fixed signs rose you could look at the triplicity ruler of sect and their sign of domicile showed their house of Joy, (with the Sun it is the sign of exaltation as Sun's domicile is the fixed sign). This seems beyond coincidence. Then when I saw the pattern was maintained by the two benefics also being able to be related to their house of joy via their house of domicile when the fixed sign of sect was rising I realised there was a structure there even if it was not mentioned historically in any writings. Mercury has no fixed sect and was the only planet that wasn't indicated by a rising fixed sign. Now that may or may not have had any overt bearing on the ancient's choice of the Joys nor how they rationalised them, nevertheless it shows a structural linkage so would have to be of significance.

The seasonal factor is what led me to this discovery when I realised that the Ascendant each day duplicates the movement of the Sun over the year. This links the Sun and the Ascendant as a daily analogy of the Sun's seasonal movement, and by extension the vernal equinox as the central /starting point of the Sun Earth seasonal relationship (i.e. the Vernal equinox is to the tropical signs what the Ascendant is to the houses).

So I looked to where the vernal equinox was when the Sun's sign rose and saw it was on the 9th house which was the Joy of the Sun, and I thought that can't be a coincidence, and that led me to seeing the connection between the rising of the fixed signs and the relevant planet's house of joy. I was rather hoping someone of knowledge would have awareness of something that would shed light on this but it appears no one has any such knowledge.
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Mii Krogulska

Joined: 23 Sep 2008
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Location: Poland, Warsaw

Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Sunsagmoonlib, great job!
This could be good explanation of planetary joyces, I believe that working astrological rules just reflected nature and daily Sun routine. I need some time to think about Your ideas Smile
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Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your reply Mii, much appreciated.
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Janis Valkovskis

Joined: 03 Jun 2010
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Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sunsagmoonlib, thank you for your efforts.

You have indeed offered a plausable explanation how ancients might have associated natural processes with the planetary joys. Well thought - out parallels. Smile Thumbs up

It is worth reflecting on your ideas. Understanding the roots of some basic astrological rules will contribute to practical application of the same.
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Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Janis for your interest.

To recap and elaborate a little:

there can only be four rulers of the 4 triplicities at any one time so that's 100% linking for the triplicity rulers of each of the four fixed signs as they rise, with their house of Joy.

Taurus on Asc, Cancer (Moon domicile) on 3rd Moon's house of joy.
Leo on Asc, Aries (Sun exaltation) on 9th Sun's house of joy.
Scorpio on on Asc, Aries (Mar's domicile) on 6th Mar's house of joy.
Aquarius on Asc, Capricorn (Saturn's domicile) on 12th Saturn's house of joy.

The exceptions (the other 3 planets) are as good as you could expect under the circumstances :
Jupiter is a participating ruler of a day triplicity where the day ruler is already assigned. Jupiter fits in with Saturn's diurnal rulership -
Aquarius Asc, Sagittarius (Jupiter's domicile) on 11th jupiter's joy.

Venus is a little more irregular but even so is still in sect as day ruler of Water and earth triplicities. Venus fits in with Mars rulership of fixed sign Scorpio thus:
Scorpio Asc, Pisces (Venus exaltation) on 5th, Venus house of joy.
Venus also works with Capricorn rising:
Capricorn Asc, Taurus (Venus domicile) on 5th, Venus house of joy.
Only Mercury doesn't conform to having its house of Joy shown by being in sect with a fixed sign rising while simultaneously having it's own sign or exaltation sign on the cusp. But Mercury is hermaphrodite so that is appropriate..

However the 2 planets inside Earth's orbit (Venus and Mercury) can both show their joy with Their sign of exaltation on the house cusp - like the Sun does - or with their sign of domicile. As Mercury has no sect to follow one can only put either of his/her signs on the first cusp which is also his/her house of Joy.
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Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is the simplified formula for the Joys:

For those planets inside earth’s orbit the house (place) of joy duplicates the zodiacal relationship between their Sect Lord’s fixed sign and their own sign of exaltation.

While for those bodies outside the earth’s orbit it is the relationship
between their Sect Lord's fixed sign, and their own sign of domicile.

Sunsagmoonlib (aka Afternoon Sun)
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