skyscript.co.uk
   

home articles forum events
glossary horary quiz consultations links more

Read this before using the forum
Register
FAQ
Search
View memberlist
View/edit your user profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Recent additions:
The Life & Work of Vettius Valens
by Deborah Houlding
Can assassinations be prevented? by Elsbeth Ebertin
translated by Jenn Zahrt PhD
A Guide to Interpreting The Great American Eclipse
by Wade Caves
The Astrology of Depression
by Judith Hill
Understanding the zodiac: and why there really ARE 12 signs of the zodiac, not 13
by Deborah Houlding

Skyscript Astrology Forum

shadbala verses exaltation and debilitation systems

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Sidereal Astrology
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3978
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:51 pm    Post subject: shadbala verses exaltation and debilitation systems Reply with quote

i wanted to put in the subject field shadbala viewpoint verses the viewpoint gotten from exaltation and debilitations... you see what i had enough room to put into the title!

obviously the 2 systems are interwoven... shadbala as i understand it is all encompassing and embraces the topic of exaltations and debilitations and moolatrikona too via a much broader system of trying to arrive at strength of a planet..

i think i have this correct....

what i see happening is generally the emphasis most astrologers give is more flat with an emphasis on whether a planet is in its own sign, or its exaltation sign or debilitation sign, but not on the overall picture that shadbala ultimately gives... perhaps some of you will disagree with me?

in the case of my own chart depending on what system one uses, i have a moon at the last few minutes of libra, or first few minutes of scorpio using lahari or krishnamurthi ayanamsa....

i am told that if a planet is in debility then the period of time when the dasa takes place will not be a good one... however i happen to note that thru all the various means of accessing planetary strength that shadbala has, that my moon happen has the highest score in shadbala, of all the planets in my chart by comparison... i do believe this strength would be considered a positive, in spite of the fact my moon is considered a negative by being located at the beginning of scorpio.. thus the quandry about these different ways of arriving at strength of planets in a chart - mine in particular at the moment..

so, my question is - how do the astrologers here on the board process something like this, if they even give it any consideration.... my moon position actually scores higher in the early minutes of scorpio, verses the last minutes of libra as well - via krishnamurti... perhaps leaving aside my own example and how this might play out, we could consider this chart that stefan refers to of "lyengars mars is in 4th house in weak Digbala.)" if we could also know more details on the chart...

so - back to my question.... what do you astrologers use to access the nature of a particular dasa period?? do you purely the broader shadbala picture, or only whether the planet is in exaltation, debilitation or etc. etc.??

on a note of interest, i recently got a newly published book by dr. k s charak called lagnu parashara... it is quite good and published in 2020 on what is a small treatise of parasharas.... i recommend the book... it does goes into some of what i am addressing here... for example... ordinarily a yoga involving the 9th and 10th house rulers would be considered a raja yoga.. however charak in his book highlights what parashara seems to be saying that any planet that happens to rule the 3,6,8 or 11th house alters this raja yoga by putting a blemish on the yoga... an aries ascendant will put saturn on the 10th and 11th cusp, as will a gemini ascendant will have saturn on the 8th and 9th house cusp... these alter raja yogas involving the 9th and 10th lords coming together in the chart... well - maybe this is a separate topic, but i thought i would share it with you if you are interested in reading another good book by dr. charak..

also - a quick note that in charaks book he suggests that a planet that is in a subhakatari yoga in the chart, even if in debilitation will work out favourbly in the dasa period.. he gives examples in the book... so, i think this is relevant to the questions i am asking... i raise them because i think they are of interest to others here..
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3978
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

maybe another way of asking this is if you are trying to access a chart using dasas as a predictive tool- how to do access the strength and quality of the dasa period??
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Martin Gansten
Moderator


Joined: 05 Jul 2008
Posts: 1412
Location: Malmö, Sweden

Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't mind having this thread here, but it might get more attention on the Indian forum. Possibly. Just a thought.
_________________
http://www.martingansten.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
Posts: 1778
Location: California, USA

Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

James, I suspect that there are many different answers to your questions from astrologers depending on each astrologer’s personal experience and belief system. India’s astrology (just like tropical astrology) has never been researched in any methodical way.

I do however, have an interesting note on shad bala from an unexpected source. In 1985 Ry Redd published a book on Edgar Cayce’s astrology, Toward a New Astrology (Inner Vision Publishing Company). It was Cayce’s habit for each reading that referenced astrology to list the planets that most affected that person’s life: career choices, psychological traits, abilities, health, the most likely direction for the evolution of character.

Redd claimed that the planets listed by Cayce (the most influential planet first followed in order by planets of less influence) were directly related to shad bala totals: the first planet listed by Cayce was the planet highest in shad bala, and so forth down the line.

“The strength of the planets as mentioned by Cayce was confirmed precisely with the same planets being in the same order from strangest to weakest.” (p. 11)


This is one of those principles I began to research, but never finished due to lack of time. I can only give myself as an example. Venus is one of my highest planets in shadbala. Aside from being very sensitive to beauty, music and harmony, I have a university degree in art and taught art in the public schools when I was younger. But Venus is lord of my 6th house. I’m running Venus dasa now and have been dealing with serious health problems and a lack of energy. (Venus doesn’t like to be physically in motion, the opposite of Mars.) So there doesn’t seem to be a plus relationship between a high Venus shad bala total and life events of the Venus dasa period.

My Mercury is also high in shad bala. I’ve been a lifetime student, having many interests and studies and loved being on a college campus. But my Mercury dasa in part was a very unhappy period due to family problems involving children.

So my final thoughts: There may be no relationship whatsoever between shad bala totals and ruling dasa planets. But I have found some support for the relationship of shad bala totals to psychology, interests and abilities. A person may not relate at all to the principles of planets very low in shad bala.

Now on another track: In the past I have run Jupiter and Saturn dasas: This was the period when I studied and taught art, had other Venus skills and also married and had children. Jupiter and Saturn are in a Venus star (Bharani). This supports recent research that dasa events relate to the star lords of dasa planets more than to the ruling planets themselves. (I have one or two research papers on this topic that were published on-line.)
_________________
http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise/LostZodiac.htm
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3978
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

martin

thanks.. as i mentioned in the other thread - it doesn't matter to me what forum this or the post on digbala is located.. if it serves to be put on the indian astrology category - that is fine for you to relocate it and i will try to use the indan astro area more often... happy new year!

therese

thanks! i like your stories and examples! i do find the whole concept of shadbala quite engaging and relevant... however i have been encouraged by aj to not lean on it very heavily... it may have its uses, but there may be some limitations to it as well.. i am going to quote aj from an e mail which i don't think he will mind me quoting him on -

"Shadbala does not consider the role of bad placement, fm's, fb's, affliction/boost by functional malefics/benefics, the affliction/boost of houses, condition of dispositers. it does not give enough weight to being neecha in navamsa. "

i think these are significant concerns.. in the example of your own chart, although venus scores the highest it is in a trik house which alters the way one would have to view venus in your chart and significantly as i understand it..in my chart moon gets the highest shadbala score, but there remains the pesky question of whether it is in the last minutes of libra - my 12th house, or the early minutes of scorpio - my first house... either way moon is conjunct my sidereal scorpio ascendant in a less then 5 degree conjunction... i tend to see it like first house, but it might be due the fact the moon is conjunct the ascendant either way... lahari will put it in the 12th though by sign.. so much of indian astrology ignores degrees and only focuses on signs as houses... ultimately as i think you mentioned before - houses are much more significant then signs in some respects in indian astrology...

i can't help but think that there is a connection between the condition of a planet based on all of these shadbala considerations and how the dasa periods will play out.. the book i was mentioning from charak - lagnu parashara - discusses this from a number of different angles that i hadn't really considered... it discusses this and how certain yogas don't amount to a hill of beans due other considerations - again - do any of the planets in the yoga involve trik houses? charak basically includes the 3, 6, 8, 12, and 11 in this.. this is also weird as house 11 generally has positive connotations in western astrology... so that is something that might arouse your curiousity as well...

regarding your idea, or the idea that dasa events relate more to the nakshatra lords then the sign lords is another wrinkle in indian astrology that i am presently exploring... so many folds to explore and never enough time.... perhaps what i can say about this is the direct relationship between nakshatras and the navamsa chart quickly implies why the navamsa chart has been seen as so integral to a bigger viewpoint on any chart... you are immediately seeing the ruling lords of the padas within these nakshatras... i know exactly what the pada ruler is for each planet in my chart thanks knowing the signs they fall in, in the D9 chart, are telling me what the pada lords are! so, i would like to ask you this and i think i know the answer... which is most important - the main lord over the nakshatra, or the pada lord?? it seems to me it is the main lord of the particular nakshatra, not the pada lord...

thanks for engaging in this therese.. happy new year! james
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Stefan



Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 276
Location: Stockholm

Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi James,

Some random comments here...

* Funny you mentioning Characs new book "Laghu Parashari" now.
I finnished reading it yesterday. My teacher who is a friend of Charac recommended it recently, so I ordered it right away. I liked it.

*I don't look that much into the Shadbala to be honest. I use a synthesis of methods, which includes some of the shadbala ingredients.

* Exaltations debilitations house placement, aspects, position in the divisional charts et.c.
Also I would include the vargottama concept as important. Vargottama in the navamsha and the other divisional charts as well.
In laghu parashari we just read Bill Clintons chart is included, and a general assessment of his periods and yogas et.c is included.
I would add here which is not mentioned in the book that he was elected president in his JUPITER DASHA. And if you look up his jupiter placements in the various divisional charts jupiter is vargottama in libra in an extrordinairy way in many of these vargas. This I believe show a potent karma in this planets expression.

* A similar thing, maybe worth mentionioning here, is I think interesting to study in Kamala Harris chart. She is elected first black vice president in her RAHU MAHADASHA.
Rahu is vargottama in gemini in many divisional charts, as well as placed near the ascendant degree, and therefore in first house in many number of divisional charts, if her TOB is correct ?

* One of my clients is a very successful theater director and actress in my country. She have a similar repeat vargottama placements of Her Mars in libra, which repeats in the various vargas a lot. Her mars period was extremely succesful with publications and so on.

Sorry if I derail a thread again with another concept here....just ignore it if you want. Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Sidereal Astrology All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
. Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

       
Contact Deborah Houlding  | terms and conditions  
All rights on all text and images reserved. Reproduction by any means is not permitted without the express
agreement of Deborah Houlding or in the case of articles by guest astrologers, the copyright owner indictated